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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 25, 2024 14:27:18 GMT -5
I'd say ideally you put the best OL combo out there! Onwenu to RT changed the entire OL, till like the last four games when injuries destroyed it again.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 25, 2024 16:47:37 GMT -5
I'd say ideally you put the best OL combo out there! Onwenu to RT changed the entire OL, till like the last four games when injuries destroyed it again. Are you sure it’s ideal to put the best OL out there?😏 |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 25, 2024 16:56:03 GMT -5
Marcus Jones took reps at WR today.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,894 
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Post by cdj on Jul 26, 2024 9:28:17 GMT -5
Peppers getting an extension
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 26, 2024 11:19:30 GMT -5
Peppers getting an extension Judon must be pumped |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 26, 2024 21:58:48 GMT -5
I'd say ideally you put the best OL combo out there! Onwenu to RT changed the entire OL, till like the last four games when injuries destroyed it again. Are you sure it’s ideal to put the best OL out there?😏 Best combination, not individual positions. You highly undervalue Onwenu at RT and even if he's a little better at RG, it's not likely the best combination. Nevermind I can't stress enough how this isn't the old system. In this system you need to be highly mobile. It's a shame Strange isn't healthy because this system fits him much better. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 26, 2024 22:01:31 GMT -5
Listening to Godchaux complain about his contract because it has no guaranteed money and the contracts he's talking about just makes me laugh. Maybe if you actually ranked as a top DT run stuffer, but he never has and he's making more actual cash than Judon!
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 27, 2024 6:36:18 GMT -5
Are you sure it’s ideal to put the best OL out there?😏 Best combination, not individual positions. You highly undervalue Onwenu at RT and even if he's a little better at RG, it's not likely the best combination. Nevermind I can't stress enough how this isn't the old system. In this system you need to be highly mobile. It's a shame Strange isn't healthy because this system fits him much better. I think you misunderstood, I was meaning that I think it’s ideal if the best line we have has Onwenu at guard. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,894
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Post by cdj on Jul 28, 2024 16:56:59 GMT -5
Barmore has blood clots.
****
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 28, 2024 20:49:27 GMT -5
Caden Wallace has been the top left tackle the last 2 days. I have to think that’s a good sign.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2024 9:49:06 GMT -5
Best combination, not individual positions. You highly undervalue Onwenu at RT and even if he's a little better at RG, it's not likely the best combination. Nevermind I can't stress enough how this isn't the old system. In this system you need to be highly mobile. It's a shame Strange isn't healthy because this system fits him much better. I think you misunderstood, I was meaning that I think it’s ideal if the best line we have has Onwenu at guard. Yeah because you have this false idea that he's a way better OG than OT, which just isn't true. I absolutely love the idea of Onwenu at RT, Sow at RG and Andrews at C. Keeping 60% of the OL together from last year why they work on learning a crazy different offense. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2024 10:01:11 GMT -5
Today is the first practice with Pads, the next week or two will tell you a bunch about the OL. You don't get much at all from practices about OL with no Pads, it was basically learning a new system week.
So far Baker has been the Douglas of camp. He gets open down field repeatedly against everyone on the D. I don't think Pads change anything for him.
All the young WR have been getting Positive reviews, Pads on for Thornton and Reagor will be meaningful.
Osborn and Juju have been rather disappointing so far.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 29, 2024 13:07:57 GMT -5
NFL.com is in the process of releasing their top 100 players list. So far 100-40 has been released and no Patriots. B/R is in process to and has done 100-30 and so far no Patriots. Safe to say there won’t be any top 30.
CBS released a list recently and have 1 Patriot (Barmore #70) and Duggar got an honorable mention along with about 30 other guys.
Need a lot of development to happen.
Also need the huge brain drain from the defense to not hurt that unit.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 29, 2024 13:21:08 GMT -5
Back when it all began (2001) the Patriots were 6000-1 to win the Super Bowl, had a 6 1/2 O/U and had zero All-Pro players. Obviously there was inefficiency in the consensus opinion.
After the 2001 regular season, Tommy, Lawyer, Ty and Troy were voted to the Pro Bowl. But without doing the research, I'd surmise the Patriots "talent" was underappreciated when compared to the results for a quite a few years afterwards.
So it is again.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 29, 2024 14:26:50 GMT -5
Back when it all began (2001) the Patriots were 6000-1 to win the Super Bowl, had a 6 1/2 O/U and had zero All-Pro players. Obviously there was inefficiency in the consensus opinion. After the 2001 regular season, Tommy, Lawyer, Ty and Troy were voted to the Pro Bowl. But without doing the research, I'd surmise the Patriots "talent" was underappreciated when compared to the results for a quite a few years afterwards. So it is again. Ty Law had already been a first team All-Pro. Bledsoe was a 3X pro/bowler and the highest paid QB in football. Terry Glenn was a pro-bowler and 2 time 1,000 yard receiver Milloy was a first team all-pro and multi time pro-bowler McGinest had been a pro-bowler And they had just drafted Seymour 6th overall I get your long odds intention tho. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 29, 2024 14:50:05 GMT -5
It's Ben, so grain of salt, but he doesn't seem to have an axe to grind here so I'll quote him:
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 29, 2024 15:08:57 GMT -5
Back when it all began (2001) the Patriots were 6000-1 to win the Super Bowl, had a 6 1/2 O/U and had zero All-Pro players. Obviously there was inefficiency in the consensus opinion. After the 2001 regular season, Tommy, Lawyer, Ty and Troy were voted to the Pro Bowl. But without doing the research, I'd surmise the Patriots "talent" was underappreciated when compared to the results for a quite a few years afterwards. So it is again. Ty Law had already been a first team All-Pro. Bledsoe was a 3X pro/bowler and the highest paid QB in football. Terry Glenn was a pro-bowler and 2 time 1,000 yard receiver Milloy was a first team all-pro and multi time pro-bowler McGinest had been a pro-bowler And they had just drafted Seymour 6th overall I get your long odds intention tho. I don't find these examples as contradictory of my over-arching point: perception often is fixed somewhere behind the actual year's performance, either giving too much credit (from your list: Drew, who would get benched, Terry Glenn, who would get moved to Dallas and have a middling finish to his career) or not enough (such as Troy Brown & "nobody" Tom Brady, to name only two). Willie and Ty probably produced about equal to how they were perceived. Lawyer too, in 2001, but his drop-off was coming, and it was sudden and steep. Seymour played like a top draft pick, although he wasn't a Michigan WR like football expert Ron Borges wanted, and thus was expected to be a wasted draft pick. I saw a poster elsewhere a week or so ago complaining they did not go get a "true #1" like Jerry Jeudy. Huh? I mean, nice player, but what has he done to make his profile so much better than the guys already on the team, other than be drafted high (#15 overall) and thus "guaranteed" playing time. His catch rate is less than 60% on pretty high volume = 56 yards per game with 13 TDs in 4 years. But folks know his name, so the perception is that he's the sort of WR that: we don't have; and we need to win with. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 29, 2024 15:32:46 GMT -5
Ty Law had already been a first team All-Pro. Bledsoe was a 3X pro/bowler and the highest paid QB in football. Terry Glenn was a pro-bowler and 2 time 1,000 yard receiver Milloy was a first team all-pro and multi time pro-bowler McGinest had been a pro-bowler And they had just drafted Seymour 6th overall I get your long odds intention tho. I don't find these examples as contradictory of my over-arching point: perception often is fixed somewhere behind the actual year's performance, either giving too much credit (from your list: Drew, who would get benched, Terry Glenn, who would get moved to Dallas and have a middling finish to his career) or not enough (such as Troy Brown & "nobody" Tom Brady, to name only two). Willie and Ty probably produced about equal to how they were perceived. Lawyer too, in 2001, but his drop-off was coming, and it was sudden and steep. Seymour played like a top draft pick, although he wasn't a Michigan WR like football expert Ron Borges wanted, and thus was expected to be a wasted draft pick. I saw a poster elsewhere a week or so ago complaining they did not go get a "true #1" like Jerry Jeudy. Huh? I mean, nice player, but what has he done to make his profile so much better than the guys already on the team, other than be drafted high (#15 overall) and thus "guaranteed" playing time. His catch rate is less than 60% on pretty high volume = 56 yards per game with 13 TDs in 4 years. But folks know his name, so the perception is that he's the sort of WR that: we don't have; and we need to win with. I acknowledged your point of long shot, but you undersold the higher end talent on that team. They had 2 guys who were first team all-pros and still at the tops of their games as well as other top 10 draft picks. And to be fair, Drew wasn’t benched he was almost killed. The point of my original post is accurate. The team lacks top high end players. Doesn’t mean there aren’t guys with talent who can develop and take a leap, but like I said that needs to happen. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 29, 2024 15:34:48 GMT -5
It's Ben, so grain of salt, but he doesn't seem to have an axe to grind here so I'll quote him: I’m not upset by this slow (?) start. Let’s get the idea of him starting out if our coaches heads. I’d rather he doesn’t see the field until after the bye week if even then. Let’s develop the line and his receivers; while he hammers home his footwork and fundamentals and masters the playbook. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 29, 2024 16:20:58 GMT -5
I don't find these examples as contradictory of my over-arching point: perception often is fixed somewhere behind the actual year's performance, either giving too much credit (from your list: Drew, who would get benched, Terry Glenn, who would get moved to Dallas and have a middling finish to his career) or not enough (such as Troy Brown & "nobody" Tom Brady, to name only two). Willie and Ty probably produced about equal to how they were perceived. Lawyer too, in 2001, but his drop-off was coming, and it was sudden and steep. Seymour played like a top draft pick, although he wasn't a Michigan WR like football expert Ron Borges wanted, and thus was expected to be a wasted draft pick. I saw a poster elsewhere a week or so ago complaining they did not go get a "true #1" like Jerry Jeudy. Huh? I mean, nice player, but what has he done to make his profile so much better than the guys already on the team, other than be drafted high (#15 overall) and thus "guaranteed" playing time. His catch rate is less than 60% on pretty high volume = 56 yards per game with 13 TDs in 4 years. But folks know his name, so the perception is that he's the sort of WR that: we don't have; and we need to win with. I acknowledged your point of long shot, but you undersold the higher end talent on that team. They had 2 guys who were first team all-pros and still at the tops of their games as well as other top 10 draft picks. And to be fair, Drew wasn’t benched he was almost killed. The point of my original post is accurate. The team lacks top high end players. Doesn’t mean there aren’t guys with talent who can develop and take a leap, but like I said that needs to happen. But coming off a 5-11 season, in which none of those players, or any other Patriots, made Pro Bowl or All-Pro, the 2001 Patriots were universally considered talent-deficient. That is my point. A snapshot is taken, an impression is formed, a stamp is applied. Drew, btw, had a 77 passer rating in 2000. He would have been benched eventually. Plus, I'm not sure "high-end" talent is a prerequisite. Good players coalesced into good units is. Not intending to be too disagreeable here, but I think we fundamentally disagree on what a good team needs. Which is perfectly fine as neither one of us are NFL owners or GMs (well, I am not). Frankly, I don't want a quote, #1 WR. Now find me one who's not a diva pia, doesn't need 35M per year, blocks, doesn't cry when the ball isn't coming his way as much as he'd like, and catches 70% of his targets for 15+ YPC and 15 or so TDs, then maybe I'd shift my opinion. I'd rather they just run a play that gets "someone" open and then have the QB throw it too him. Otherwise, why all those hours of film study & practice just to throw it all the time to the same guy, over and over, whether it works or not? All right, enough of my nonsense. Football is in the air! p.s., I'd rate the talent on the 2024 Patriots as comparable to 2021 (as they were in 2021, not after; ie, 2001 Tommy, not 2014 Tommy). So looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Although potential Judon & Godcheaux holdouts, or trades, plus Barmore blood clots are NOT promising developments. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2024 16:25:26 GMT -5
Going off X, you get more like he makes crazy plays, then something not great. One reference to Josh Allen early in his career. He's a rookie, he doesn't even have the offense down yet, nevermind chemistry with WRs. Going against a veteran who knows the offense.
I do 2nd that it's a good thing, absolutely no reason for him to start early this season if at all.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 29, 2024 16:32:15 GMT -5
Talent wise I do think this team compares well to 2001. It's just Brady wasn't a rookie and Mayo isn't a crazy experienced coach like Bill was.
I had literally forgotten Terry Glenn was on the 2001 team, did he get injured?
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Post by trajanacc on Jul 29, 2024 17:19:08 GMT -5
Back when it all began (2001) the Patriots were 6000-1 to win the Super Bowl, had a 6 1/2 O/U and had zero All-Pro players. Obviously there was inefficiency in the consensus opinion. After the 2001 regular season, Tommy, Lawyer, Ty and Troy were voted to the Pro Bowl. But without doing the research, I'd surmise the Patriots "talent" was underappreciated when compared to the results for a quite a few years afterwards. So it is again. They were +6000 (60-1) preseason. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 29, 2024 17:34:22 GMT -5
Talent wise I do think this team compares well to 2001. It's just Brady wasn't a rookie and Mayo isn't a crazy experienced coach like Bill was. I had literally forgotten Terry Glenn was on the 2001 team, did he get injured? He did yes, but there were suspensions and fines. I believe surrounding him missing meetings and treatments and him blaming the team for certain treatments. It was a side show. They didn’t even give him a ring if i remember correctly . |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 29, 2024 17:44:19 GMT -5
Back when it all began (2001) the Patriots were 6000-1 to win the Super Bowl, had a 6 1/2 O/U and had zero All-Pro players. Obviously there was inefficiency in the consensus opinion. After the 2001 regular season, Tommy, Lawyer, Ty and Troy were voted to the Pro Bowl. But without doing the research, I'd surmise the Patriots "talent" was underappreciated when compared to the results for a quite a few years afterwards. So it is again. They were +6000 (60-1) preseason. Yes. Did my post leave a different impression (ie, before the season started)? Edit: I see my error now. Thanks for the catch. |
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