SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 15, 2024 22:15:08 GMT -5
To those acting like Drake Maye needs years of refinement: he had the most NFL ready throws in and out of structure over the past couple seasons. Both Caleb and Jayden held the ball for ungodly amounts of time over the past couple seasons. It was Drake who would navigate through the trash and throw receivers open Ala Javon Baker tonight. The fact that he hasn’t had a single snap with the ones is wrong. If you want to put him on ice while you tank, whatever. But don’t talk about competition if you aren’t gonna give him a chance. I think Mayo has been disingenuous and operating out of Belichick’s shadow from the moment that Maye was drafted.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Aug 16, 2024 6:29:38 GMT -5
To those acting like Drake Maye needs years of refinement: he had the most NFL ready throws in and out of structure over the past couple seasons. Both Caleb and Jayden held the ball for ungodly amounts of time over the past couple seasons. It was Drake who would navigate through the trash and throw receivers open Ala Javon Baker tonight. The fact that he hasn’t had a single snap with the ones is wrong. If you want to put him on ice while you tank, whatever. But don’t talk about competition if you aren’t gonna give him a chance. I think Mayo has been disingenuous and operating out of Belichick’s shadow from the moment that Maye was drafted. I’m not acting like he needs years of refinement, but he needs refinement, like working under center, etc. i sit him because I have zero interest in putting him under center with this line and these “weapons”. That’s a recipe for bad habits. The the footwork down, learn the playbook. Let the team do its thing which is likely sucking but hopefully working out the line from bad to at least solid. Then if he plays later, the losses aren’t on him and we can maybe have a late season spark and some excitement for next year. Easing him in is the smart move. And it’s not about “tanking” this team doesn’t have to tank. They’ll have a top 10 pick, likely top 5 regardless. |
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,798 
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Aug 16, 2024 8:32:36 GMT -5
To those acting like Drake Maye needs years of refinement: he had the most NFL ready throws in and out of structure over the past couple seasons. Both Caleb and Jayden held the ball for ungodly amounts of time over the past couple seasons. It was Drake who would navigate through the trash and throw receivers open Ala Javon Baker tonight. The fact that he hasn’t had a single snap with the ones is wrong. If you want to put him on ice while you tank, whatever. But don’t talk about competition if you aren’t gonna give him a chance. I think Mayo has been disingenuous and operating out of Belichick’s shadow from the moment that Maye was drafted. I’m not acting like he needs years of refinement, but he needs refinement, like working under center, etc. i sit him because I have zero interest in putting him under center with this line and these “weapons”. That’s a recipe for bad habits. The the footwork down, learn the playbook. Let the team do its thing which is likely sucking but hopefully working out the line from bad to at least solid. Then if he plays later, the losses aren’t on him and we can maybe have a late season spark and some excitement for next year. Easing him in is the smart move. And it’s not about “tanking” this team doesn’t have to tank. They’ll have a top 10 pick, likely top 5 regardless. To be fair what rookie QBs don't? The list is very small. I do agree though don't put him back there to get slaughtered if the line is truly as bad as the reports say it is. Don't want to David Carr him and have him get beaten into the ground, that can derail a career before it ever has a shot. The good news for the Pats and the line, assuming they have a not so good year W/L wise is that next years class of OTs is looking really strong from what I have read. Take your lumps this year with Brisset and go get Maye's franchise LT next year in the draft and go from there. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 11:01:19 GMT -5
To those acting like Drake Maye needs years of refinement: he had the most NFL ready throws in and out of structure over the past couple seasons. Both Caleb and Jayden held the ball for ungodly amounts of time over the past couple seasons. It was Drake who would navigate through the trash and throw receivers open Ala Javon Baker tonight. The fact that he hasn’t had a single snap with the ones is wrong. If you want to put him on ice while you tank, whatever. But don’t talk about competition if you aren’t gonna give him a chance. I think Mayo has been disingenuous and operating out of Belichick’s shadow from the moment that Maye was drafted. I’m not acting like he needs years of refinement, but he needs refinement, like working under center, etc. i sit him because I have zero interest in putting him under center with this line and these “weapons”. That’s a recipe for bad habits. The the footwork down, learn the playbook. Let the team do its thing which is likely sucking but hopefully working out the line from bad to at least solid. Then if he plays later, the losses aren’t on him and we can maybe have a late season spark and some excitement for next year. Easing him in is the smart move. And it’s not about “tanking” this team doesn’t have to tank. They’ll have a top 10 pick, likely top 5 regardless. I don’t think he needs that much refinement to be Jacoby Brisset level. If you want to ice him, fine. But there hasn’t been a single mention of a mandatory redshirt by the organization. Mayo has preached competition, yet Maye hasn’t gotten a single first team rep all training camp. That’s my issue. It seems like they don’t have a coherent plan for the kid. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 11:03:54 GMT -5
Jerod is either being disorganized or dishonest. Neither are acceptable from a head coach.
|
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Aug 16, 2024 11:08:04 GMT -5
I’m not acting like he needs years of refinement, but he needs refinement, like working under center, etc. i sit him because I have zero interest in putting him under center with this line and these “weapons”. That’s a recipe for bad habits. The the footwork down, learn the playbook. Let the team do its thing which is likely sucking but hopefully working out the line from bad to at least solid. Then if he plays later, the losses aren’t on him and we can maybe have a late season spark and some excitement for next year. Easing him in is the smart move. And it’s not about “tanking” this team doesn’t have to tank. They’ll have a top 10 pick, likely top 5 regardless. I don’t think he needs that much refinement to be Jacoby Brisset level. If you want to ice him, fine. But there hasn’t been a single mention of a mandatory redshirt by the organization. Mayo has preached competition, yet Maye hasn’t gotten a single first team rep all training camp. That’s my issue. It seems like they don’t have a coherent plan for the kid. That’s not the point though, it’s about what’s best for Mayes development long term. I don’t think that’s playing out of the gate. He can be Brissett level while having worse habits because he’s more talented. But i don’t want him being good, i want him fulfilling HIS potential and I think sitting for a while is best |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 11:12:28 GMT -5
Patriots talent level and Maye only starting two years in College are why you bring him along slowly. The footwork is more because his line sucked and ran for his life last year. So yeah you don't want him forming bad habits. 100% agree a ton of people are wrong about him being a developmental QB prospect, that's Milton
Trading Judon after Barmore issues is tanking, they shouldn't stop now guys like Jothnan Jones should be traded. Defense will still be okay, but zero reasons to keep him over a young guy now, the dream of an elite D is now gone.
Trade deadline guys like Wise and Bourne, like pick a path. If you wanna tank unload the older talent and get more picks. I wouldn't rule out a lot of other players like Uche and etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 11:22:20 GMT -5
Let's be frank, the worst part of this Maye crap is the Boston Media, which Mayo is partially responsible for act like it's a QB competition, when it wasn't.
Nevermind what is going on with the starting offense? That's two games in a row that Thornton and Osborn have started, while doing nothing. You can give Osborn a pass as a veteran, but Thornton has done nothing in his career during games.
Boutte showing you why he's a lock again.
|
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 11:35:33 GMT -5
I don’t think he needs that much refinement to be Jacoby Brisset level. If you want to ice him, fine. But there hasn’t been a single mention of a mandatory redshirt by the organization. Mayo has preached competition, yet Maye hasn’t gotten a single first team rep all training camp. That’s my issue. It seems like they don’t have a coherent plan for the kid. That’s not the point though, it’s about what’s best for Mayes development long term. I don’t think that’s playing out of the gate. He can be Brissett level while having worse habits because he’s more talented. But i don’t want him being good, i want him fulfilling HIS potential and I think sitting for a while is best Between you and me, I have doubts whether benching Maye early is best for his development. But we don’t know if that’s the point. We were told the point was competition. Do you see the problem there? |
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 16, 2024 11:46:47 GMT -5
That’s not the point though, it’s about what’s best for Mayes development long term. I don’t think that’s playing out of the gate. He can be Brissett level while having worse habits because he’s more talented. But i don’t want him being good, i want him fulfilling HIS potential and I think sitting for a while is best Between you and me, I have doubts whether benching Maye early is best for his development. But we don’t know if that’s the point. We were told the point was competition. Do you see the problem there? Playing a hypothetical game. If the risk of hurting Maye's development by starting him this year is 1% whereas playing him could give you 3 more wins, would want to do it? For me, the answer is no because the upside is 2-3 wins to maybe 5-6. I don't see a scenario where this is even a playoff team, let alone a competitor. It would be better to just bottom out once more and develop your potential franchise QB. If there's even a shred of doubt that playing him could stunt his growth, don't. Again, just hypothetical but the point is there's no upside to this team worth any potential damage to Maye's development. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 11:57:05 GMT -5
Between you and me, I have doubts whether benching Maye early is best for his development. But we don’t know if that’s the point. We were told the point was competition. Do you see the problem there? Playing a hypothetical game. If the risk of hurting Maye's development by starting him this year is 1% whereas playing him could give you 3 more wins, would want to do it? For me, the answer is no because the upside is 2-3 wins to maybe 5-6. I don't see a scenario where this is even a playoff team, let alone a competitor. It would be better to just bottom out once more and develop your potential franchise QB. If there's even a shred of doubt that playing him could stunt his growth, don't. Again, just hypothetical but the point is there's no upside to this team worth any potential damage to Maye's development. I’m not an old guy in a Scituate bar saying “with a qwataback, I think the Pats can win it all this year.” What I am suggesting is that Super Bowl winning quarterbacks need the reps and development that come while playing under live fire. Otherwise in year 2 or 3 you won’t have the seasoning to compete. The fact that Maye hasn’t even gotten reps with the first unit is an affront to “open competition.” If you want to be the process Sixers, say so. Don’t cozy up to Bedard and Curran while whispering “he’ll get the opportunity when he’s ready.” BS. This kid was on Jacoby’s level playing Boston College last season. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 13:29:42 GMT -5
Tom Brady won a Superbowl his 2nd year after not playing his first year, Mahomes played one game as a rookie and won Superbowl and MVP in his 2nd year. The player being ready with the right players, system and staff is more important than experience. Two training camps, preseasons and one full year of practice is experience and has proven valuable to many young QBs.
BTW if it was really 1%, I'd start Maye game one all day long. It's much higher than that, heck injury risks, see JJ McCarthy are higher than that alone.
|
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 17:32:10 GMT -5
Tom Brady won a Superbowl his 2nd year after not playing his first year, Mahomes played one game as a rookie and won Superbowl and MVP in his 2nd year. The player being ready with the right players, system and staff is more important than experience. Two training camps, preseasons and one full year of practice is experience and has proven valuable to many young QBs. BTW if it was really 1%, I'd start Maye game one all day long. It's much higher than that, heck injury risks, see JJ McCarthy are higher than that alone. if you are making a point using the two greatest players ever, there’s a good chance you are proving an exception, not a rule. Either way, you still need to fact check. It’s also worth mentioning that both those Patriots and Chiefs teams were contenders with Bledsoe and Alex Smith. |
|
|
|
Post by prospectjunkie21 on Aug 16, 2024 18:47:50 GMT -5
Pats need to host a workout with David Bakhtiari, Charles Leno, Donovan Smith, and D.J. Humphries and sign whichever works out the best so Vederian Lowe doesn't get Brissett or Maye killed.
|
|
dcb26
Veteran
Posts: 325
Member is Online
|
Post by dcb26 on Aug 16, 2024 19:40:12 GMT -5
Tom Brady won a Superbowl his 2nd year after not playing his first year, Mahomes played one game as a rookie and won Superbowl and MVP in his 2nd year. The player being ready with the right players, system and staff is more important than experience. Two training camps, preseasons and one full year of practice is experience and has proven valuable to many young QBs. BTW if it was really 1%, I'd start Maye game one all day long. It's much higher than that, heck injury risks, see JJ McCarthy are higher than that alone. if you are making a point using the two greatest players ever, there’s a good chance you are proving an exception, not a rule. Either way, you still need to fact check. It’s also worth mentioning that both those Patriots and Chiefs teams were contenders with Bledsoe and Alex Smith. Pretty sure the burden of proof is on you, here - but here's the info I guess you're looking for re: SB winning QB's: Since 2000, There have been 5 Super Bowls where the winning QB started from the start of their rookie year. In the interest of complete fairness, two more were started by Roethlisberger, who started from Game 2 of his rookie year. So, at best 7 of 24. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 20:53:06 GMT -5
if you are making a point using the two greatest players ever, there’s a good chance you are proving an exception, not a rule. Either way, you still need to fact check. It’s also worth mentioning that both those Patriots and Chiefs teams were contenders with Bledsoe and Alex Smith. Pretty sure the burden of proof is on you, here - but here's the info I guess you're looking for re: SB winning QB's: Since 2000, There have been 5 Super Bowls where the winning QB started from the start of their rookie year. In the interest of complete fairness, two more were started by Roethlisberger, who started from Game 2 of his rookie year. So, at best 7 of 24. Not really. If you take out the Brady/Mahomes (both players entered the league on Super Bowl caliber teams with top10-15 quarterbacks) super bowls, that’s 7 of 13. But I never really cared about debating the merits of starting a rookie early (Umass’s non-sequitors are simply catnip for a type A like myself :-) ). What we cannot debate is that Drake Maye is competitive with Jacoby. According to the rule maker, Jerod Mayo, the game was supposed to be competition. The fact that Drake Maye still hasn’t taken any first team reps in practice makes that competition seem like a farce. That’s my issue. If you want him to sit, you should have said that. If you want a fair competition, give him an equal share of reps to fairly compete. |
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Aug 16, 2024 21:19:09 GMT -5
What no Joe Milton should start talk? They’re using him wrong, they should never put him in boring West Coast offense. They need to air it out, Bruce Arians style. Tell the receiver to all go fast and far and let Bazooka launch IDGAF throws in the middle of the field. If we’re going to be bad, at least be funny bad. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 21:28:37 GMT -5
Tom Brady won a Superbowl his 2nd year after not playing his first year, Mahomes played one game as a rookie and won Superbowl and MVP in his 2nd year. The player being ready with the right players, system and staff is more important than experience. Two training camps, preseasons and one full year of practice is experience and has proven valuable to many young QBs. BTW if it was really 1%, I'd start Maye game one all day long. It's much higher than that, heck injury risks, see JJ McCarthy are higher than that alone. if you are making a point using the two greatest players ever, there’s a good chance you are proving an exception, not a rule. Either way, you still need to fact check. It’s also worth mentioning that both those Patriots and Chiefs teams were contenders with Bledsoe and Alex Smith. Jordan love and Aaron Rodgers, do I need to continue? There's absolutely zero evidence that taking it slow with a young QB hurts him! Lots of QBs have done incredibly well after teams took it slow with them and it didn't hurt their development. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 21:36:27 GMT -5
What no Joe Milton should start talk? They’re using him wrong, they should never put him in boring West Coast offense. They need to air it out, Bruce Arians style. Tell the receiver to all go fast and far and let Bazooka launch IDGAF throws in the middle of the field. If we’re going to be bad, at least be funny bad. I'm sorry Don, but it's like you literally don't know Joe Milton at all. His best traits as a thrower are short passes, he's very inaccurate over ten yards even in College. He's a developmental long-term QB and it's why I always give you crap about hail marry plays, his arm is highly inaccurate on deep passes. BTW, that basically is our offense. It's very much a vertical passing attack for a west coast offense. Well I should note, that was the Browns offense with our OC. Run heavy, with deep play action passes. So far, it looks very similar. |
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Aug 16, 2024 21:47:00 GMT -5
They’re using him wrong, they should never put him in boring West Coast offense. They need to air it out, Bruce Arians style. Tell the receiver to all go fast and far and let Bazooka launch IDGAF throws in the middle of the field. If we’re going to be bad, at least be funny bad. I'm sorry Don, but it's like you literally don't know Joe Milton at all. His best traits as a thrower are short passes, he's very inaccurate over ten yards even in College. He's a developmental long-term QB and it's why I always give you crap about hail marry plays, his arm is highly inaccurate on deep passes. BTW, that basically is our offense. It's very much a vertical passing attack for a west coast offense. Well I should note, that was the Browns offense with our OC. Run heavy, with deep play action passes. So far, it looks very similar. Perhaps what I hope to see from Milton doesn’t really exist. I don’t want him ever taking serious snaps from Drake Maye, I’m absolutely Maye’s #1 fan. But I want some showmanship, someone who comes into the game to throw weird passes. Remember that Colts special teams play like a decade ago, where they took a snap with literally just the guy and the center? I want that out of Milton. |
|
|
|
Post by philarhody on Aug 16, 2024 22:39:26 GMT -5
if you are making a point using the two greatest players ever, there’s a good chance you are proving an exception, not a rule. Either way, you still need to fact check. It’s also worth mentioning that both those Patriots and Chiefs teams were contenders with Bledsoe and Alex Smith. Jordan love and Aaron Rodgers, do I need to continue? There's absolutely zero evidence that taking it slow with a young QB hurts him! Lots of QBs have done incredibly well after teams took it slow with them and it didn't hurt their development. What did Jordan Love and Aaron Rodgers have in common? Regardless, I’m not totally opposed to taking it slow with Drake Maye. I just think stating it’s an open competition and not giving him a single first team rep in practice is ridiculous. You either are or are not keeping him benched. You can’t talk out both sides of your mouth then say “he just hasn’t earned it.” |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 23:27:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry Don, but it's like you literally don't know Joe Milton at all. His best traits as a thrower are short passes, he's very inaccurate over ten yards even in College. He's a developmental long-term QB and it's why I always give you crap about hail marry plays, his arm is highly inaccurate on deep passes. BTW, that basically is our offense. It's very much a vertical passing attack for a west coast offense. Well I should note, that was the Browns offense with our OC. Run heavy, with deep play action passes. So far, it looks very similar. Perhaps what I hope to see from Milton doesn’t really exist. I don’t want him ever taking serious snaps from Drake Maye, I’m absolutely Maye’s #1 fan. But I want some showmanship, someone who comes into the game to throw weird passes. Remember that Colts special teams play like a decade ago, where they took a snap with literally just the guy and the center? I want that out of Milton. If I'm designing an offense around Milton for showmanship it's the wildcat system. Jalen Hurt pocket runs. Things of that nature. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2024 23:44:51 GMT -5
Jordan love and Aaron Rodgers, do I need to continue? There's absolutely zero evidence that taking it slow with a young QB hurts him! Lots of QBs have done incredibly well after teams took it slow with them and it didn't hurt their development. What did Jordan Love and Aaron Rodgers have in common? Regardless, I’m not totally opposed to taking it slow with Drake Maye. I just think stating it’s an open competition and not giving him a single first team rep in practice is ridiculous. You either are or are not keeping him benched. You can’t talk out both sides of your mouth then say “he just hasn’t earned it.” First round picks, multi millionaires, play QB, went to college, are male and got extra developmental time that didn't hurt their development. Okay I have zero issues with that, I already called out Mayo on that and agree fully. They are making Maye look bad, but zero reasons to start a young QB with only two seasons starting experience in College. Especially when our offensive line and talent level isn't good. Unless the offense gets a lot better, he's better off red shirting this year. Even though I expect he'll play some this year, hopefully when Onwenu is back at RT and Strange is healthy. Brissett is going to earn every penny of that contract and it was a smart move. |
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 17, 2024 10:23:56 GMT -5
Per PFF Okafor was 2nd highest rated Patriot in Eagles game. So everything from him can't be horrible.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,825
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Aug 17, 2024 11:55:53 GMT -5
Yeah everything I heard about Okorafor from the steelers fans I am friends with was that he’s a fine player. I don’t really consider him a weak point of the line. Obv to me it’s Lowe. But the line as a whole certainly wasn’t as atrocious as we were led to believe from the reporters after practice the other day
|
|
|
