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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 21, 2024 19:07:20 GMT -5
Maye gets his first #1 team reps of training camp, during a water downed practice that was basically just handoffs per reports.
If Boutte gets cut what are we doing? It's becoming an important question given the Thornton crap.
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Post by rasimon on Aug 21, 2024 19:33:10 GMT -5
Shawn Wade was a five-star out of high school. He was USA Todays HS Defensive player of the year in 2016. He redshirted 2017. In 2018 and 2019 he played almost exclusively slot for Ohio State. In 2019 he was good. In 2020 he moved to the outside and didnt really progress. He had a bunch of injuries though (surgery for a torn abdominal, knee injury, and turf toe) which limited him to 294 snaps. He was drafted in the fifth round of the 2021 draft by the Ravens but he never played for the Ravens. Aug 2021 he was traded to the Pats. 2021 and 2022 he had almost no snaps for the Pats. Last year he had 348 snaps, about 84% on the outside. He was targeted 34 times for 23 receptions and 290 yards. If you blow that up to a full season thats around 100 targets, 70 catches, 900 yards. Not so good. Pff grade 59.1 in coverage. He has good size and outright speed (4.43 pro day) is a very good tackler and is good against the run. Im not sure if his problem in coverage is reaction time or change of direction speed but he has not demonstrated that he can play well on the outside. He is probably better suited for slot or safety. If he' your first guy off the bench thats fine but starting on the outside seems like a stretch.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 21, 2024 23:05:11 GMT -5
Clyde Christensen, former coach of Brady, Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck & TV analyst for UNC last year, drops a bomb about the Patriots rookie QB:
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 22, 2024 11:35:45 GMT -5
Absolutely Shaun Wade shouldn't be starting, he's probably in the 5th/6th range on the depth chart right now if I go off what people on X are saying. Which is why I say CB might be deepest position on the team.
Context, first real game action he's thrown into starting because top 4 CBs go down. This happens during a stretch where we are playing many high powered offenses like Maimi and Dallas. Those numbers aren't close to correct, you can't play 110% of the snaps. Heck very few CB come close to 100%. Jonathan Jones best years 84% and 73% of the snaps for example. Only guys like prime Gilmore come close to that.
Wade allowed a QB rating of 85.9, which is actually fairly good, below average mark. That equals 53/54 QBs last year in Eaton Stick and Sam Darnold. Mainly do to not allowing at TDs while playing 37% of the snaps. For context Jonathan Jones has only had one year with a QB rating below that in the last 5 years.
Myles Bryant gave up completions at a 75.6% rate, QB rating of 103.4 and 3 TDs, while playing a ton.
So yeah I'd like to see Wade stick around and see if he can improve on last year. At worst he seems like a good depth piece that might have some upside left.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 22, 2024 12:11:29 GMT -5
Dotson was just traded along with a 5th round pick to Eagles for a 3rd and two 7th round picks.
Been slightly disappointing given Washington QB play, but still 11 TDs the last two years. I'd much rather have Dotson playing the outside X over Thornton. Still some of the best and most exciting College tape I've ever watched.
Eagles are like Ravens, they think they need more weapons, when in reality it's more Jalen Hurt isn't an elite QB. He already had two elite WRs, still a good trade for them given the cost
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Post by bishop on Aug 22, 2024 14:45:18 GMT -5
I don't really see it with Dotson. Even if you have no faith in Thornton staying healthy it should be the WR spot with the lowest target share, I'd rather they just max Polk's development and see if one of those other guys can pop rather than trading a decent pick for another buy low guy. From Albert Breer: I do really hope we see this reshuffle. Get Lowe out of there, flip Okorafor to the left side, insert Robinson at RG and kick Onwenu outside. “The offensive line is where the biggest questions lie, and even now, with the opener three weeks away, where guys will line up is in flux. Mike Onwenu, whom the Patriots gave a big extension to this offseason, has spent most of the summer at guard, but could move out to right tackle. Fourth-rounder Layden Robinson—a really strong, aggressive guard who comes with an SEC pedigree—has emerged, and New England could move Onwenu outside to accommodate him. Meanwhile, Chukwuma Okorafor has gotten reps more recently at left tackle, after working a lot on the right side, with Vederian Lowe and third-rounder Caedan Wallace also in the mix there. At this point, the only real certainty seems to be that veteran bedrock David Andrews will be the center. One thing that should help manage the potential shuffling is Rhamondre Stevenson’s presence. The tailback showed up a little heavy last year, and it cost him. He looks leaner and quicker this year, and, with a new contract signed, has emerged as a confident leader for Jerod Mayo’s new program.” I'm down with this even if Mike is a better Guard, because he's also the best Tackle on the team. Get Caedan Wallace whatever reps you think he can handle at the other tackle spot, split the time with Okarafor if you want to, but I've seen enough of Vederian Lowe it ain't happening with him. More than once we've seen Onwenu kicking outside to tackle help stabilize a shaky OL situation yet the team seemed set on not trying it until Lowe's latest injury opened the door even though we have 2 promising rookie contract G's and (probably?) Cole Strange coming back at the position. |
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Post by philarhody on Aug 22, 2024 18:34:53 GMT -5
Dotson was just traded along with a 5th round pick to Eagles for a 3rd and two 7th round picks. Been slightly disappointing given Washington QB play, but still 11 TDs the last two years. I'd much rather have Dotson playing the outside X over Thornton. Still some of the best and most exciting College tape I've ever watched. Eagles are like Ravens, they think they need more weapons, when in reality it's more Jalen Hurt isn't an elite QB. He already had two elite WRs, still a good trade for them given the cost They probably already know that Hurts ain’t it unless the weapons are wrecking coverage. Everything is first read or go with him. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 22, 2024 20:27:36 GMT -5
Where have I heard this argument before??
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 22, 2024 22:04:20 GMT -5
I don't really see it with Dotson. Even if you have no faith in Thornton staying healthy it should be the WR spot with the lowest target share, I'd rather they just max Polk's development and see if one of those other guys can pop rather than trading a decent pick for another buy low guy. From Albert Breer: I do really hope we see this reshuffle. Get Lowe out of there, flip Okorafor to the left side, insert Robinson at RG and kick Onwenu outside. “The offensive line is where the biggest questions lie, and even now, with the opener three weeks away, where guys will line up is in flux. Mike Onwenu, whom the Patriots gave a big extension to this offseason, has spent most of the summer at guard, but could move out to right tackle. Fourth-rounder Layden Robinson—a really strong, aggressive guard who comes with an SEC pedigree—has emerged, and New England could move Onwenu outside to accommodate him. Meanwhile, Chukwuma Okorafor has gotten reps more recently at left tackle, after working a lot on the right side, with Vederian Lowe and third-rounder Caedan Wallace also in the mix there. At this point, the only real certainty seems to be that veteran bedrock David Andrews will be the center. One thing that should help manage the potential shuffling is Rhamondre Stevenson’s presence. The tailback showed up a little heavy last year, and it cost him. He looks leaner and quicker this year, and, with a new contract signed, has emerged as a confident leader for Jerod Mayo’s new program.” I'm down with this even if Mike is a better Guard, because he's also the best Tackle on the team. Get Caedan Wallace whatever reps you think he can handle at the other tackle spot, split the time with Okarafor if you want to, but I've seen enough of Vederian Lowe it ain't happening with him. More than once we've seen Onwenu kicking outside to tackle help stabilize a shaky OL situation yet the team seemed set on not trying it until Lowe's latest injury opened the door even though we have 2 promising rookie contract G's and (probably?) Cole Strange coming back at the position. It probably doesn't make sense given the amount of young WR we have, but his tape in College was so good. He can play all 3 positions and has the biggest catch radius for a smaller player I've ever seen. Some of the best catches in College football history. With Thornton it's not even health, which is an issue, it's his lack of production. I don't care about practice, you need to produce in the games. Until I see that, Thornton is nothing more than a young player with some upside. Give me Polk, Baker and Boutte. Better late than never, but absolutely Onwenu should be at RT. |
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Post by bishop on Aug 22, 2024 23:20:17 GMT -5
It probably doesn't make sense given the amount of young WR we have, but his tape in College was so good. He can play all 3 positions and has the biggest catch radius for a smaller player I've ever seen. Some of the best catches in College football history. With Thornton it's not even health, which is an issue, it's his lack of production. I don't care about practice, you need to produce in the games. Until I see that, Thornton is nothing more than a young player with some upside. Give me Polk, Baker and Boutte. Better late than never, but absolutely Onwenu should be at RT. Lot of guys with great college tape don't pan out, but more than that unless this is part of a play for Aiyuk by Washington I'd be skeptical why they're selling low on him despite also drafting a hopefully franchise QB. And speaking of Aiyuk I'd also rather just save the ammo for someone like that next offseason or when one pops up after Drake Maye has shown enough they'll actually want to come here  I don't know why the Patriots are so intent on the idea of a specific X/boundary receiver to threaten the defense vertically vs seeing if you can get more 3 WR sets with Polk, Bourne, Douglas out there if those are our 3 best WR's, but sounds like Polk will be playing as much as he can handle and if Baker and Boutte aren't playing better than Thornton I'm fine giving Thornton a shot. I'm not getting my hopes up either but it's also not like this was the most functional offense or one that had a QB with a big arm in his 2 seasons here. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 23, 2024 6:09:36 GMT -5
It probably doesn't make sense given the amount of young WR we have, but his tape in College was so good. He can play all 3 positions and has the biggest catch radius for a smaller player I've ever seen. Some of the best catches in College football history. With Thornton it's not even health, which is an issue, it's his lack of production. I don't care about practice, you need to produce in the games. Until I see that, Thornton is nothing more than a young player with some upside. Give me Polk, Baker and Boutte. Better late than never, but absolutely Onwenu should be at RT. Lot of guys with great college tape don't pan out, but more than that unless this is part of a play for Aiyuk by Washington I'd be skeptical why they're selling low on him despite also drafting a hopefully franchise QB. And speaking of Aiyuk I'd also rather just save the ammo for someone like that next offseason or when one pops up after Drake Maye has shown enough they'll actually want to come here I don't know why the Patriots are so intent on the idea of a specific X/boundary receiver to threaten the defense vertically vs seeing if you can get more 3 WR sets with Polk, Bourne, Douglas out there if those are our 3 best WR's, but sounds like Polk will be playing as much as he can handle and if Baker and Boutte aren't playing better than Thornton I'm fine giving Thornton a shot. I'm not getting my hopes up either but it's also not like this was the most functional offense or one that had a QB with a big arm in his 2 seasons here. If you want 3 WR sets on the regular, you’re going to be disappointed with this coordinator unless he changes. It’s going to be interesting to see him as a play caller as that’s essentially new for him. |
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Post by philarhody on Aug 23, 2024 7:09:09 GMT -5
Where have I heard this argument before?? “But it is a competition, because Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love. I think Jerod’s doing a great job. Clear, disciplined plan for the kid. Besides the kid is so far behind. Did you see his footwork? Oh my god, it’s gonna take years.” |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 23, 2024 9:28:08 GMT -5
It probably doesn't make sense given the amount of young WR we have, but his tape in College was so good. He can play all 3 positions and has the biggest catch radius for a smaller player I've ever seen. Some of the best catches in College football history. With Thornton it's not even health, which is an issue, it's his lack of production. I don't care about practice, you need to produce in the games. Until I see that, Thornton is nothing more than a young player with some upside. Give me Polk, Baker and Boutte. Better late than never, but absolutely Onwenu should be at RT. Lot of guys with great college tape don't pan out, but more than that unless this is part of a play for Aiyuk by Washington I'd be skeptical why they're selling low on him despite also drafting a hopefully franchise QB. And speaking of Aiyuk I'd also rather just save the ammo for someone like that next offseason or when one pops up after Drake Maye has shown enough they'll actually want to come here I don't know why the Patriots are so intent on the idea of a specific X/boundary receiver to threaten the defense vertically vs seeing if you can get more 3 WR sets with Polk, Bourne, Douglas out there if those are our 3 best WR's, but sounds like Polk will be playing as much as he can handle and if Baker and Boutte aren't playing better than Thornton I'm fine giving Thornton a shot. I'm not getting my hopes up either but it's also not like this was the most functional offense or one that had a QB with a big arm in his 2 seasons here. You have to watch tape, I've watched tape on hundreds of WR. He makes catches like prime OBJ. Few WR have college tape like him. It's a shame he goes from not having a great QB to having a so so one as a #3 now. That's easy, it's the new offense of run and play action deep passes. It's going to be something we haven't seen basically ever, best example is probably Brady to Moss. I follow all the Patriots beat writers on X, that's not the impression I've got through camp. Yeah Thornton has made some plays, much more hit and miss than those guys. Polk and Boutte basically haven't had bad practices and keep getting better. Baker looks like a steal, the one issue is drops, yet that's also an issue with Thornton. It's more like they like his speed, but he's been horrible at using it because he's not a good route runner and can't make contested catches. Baker was much more advanced on his college tape at those things. One thing is certain, outside OL the key to this offense is going to be Thornton and Baker. It's the whole concept of the offense run sets up deep passes, deep passes help open up the run. You need an X WR that makes plays and gets the D to adjust. I do think a lot of this is making rookies earn their minutes and not handing them anything. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 23, 2024 14:08:42 GMT -5
I think this is going to be a run first team and the reports on Thornton’s blocking have been good, wouldn’t shock me if that’s why he’s earned a starting role
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Post by rasimon on Aug 23, 2024 17:28:23 GMT -5
nfltraderumors.co/?p=541107List of potential trade candidiates Ben Cleveland is really interesting. 6'6 360. Plays RG, LG, and has been working out at C. He played RG and a bit of RT at Georgia. 2020 531 snaps at RG / 77.4 run / 86.2 pass 2019 435 snaps at RG / 77.6 / 78.2 2018 206 snaps at RG / 71.9 / 90.9 www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Ben-Cleveland-OL-Georgiawww.mockdraftable.com/player/ben-clevelandDrafted in 2021. Mockdraft DB had his consensus predraft slot at 114. He was drafted in the 3rd (95th overall) by BAL. 2023 162 snaps 90% at RG / 64.6 run / 80.7 pass 2022 92 snaps at RG / 62.8 / 72.53 2021 367 snaps at LG / 56.6 / 54.8 He seems to be good in pass protection and acceptable as a run blocker. He will be a FA in 2025. I would be surprised if he commands much given his sparce usage up to now. Pats could plug him in at RG and move Onwenu back to RT. That would at least solidify the right side of the line. A 4th in 2025 looks a big rich. I would give a 5th plus anyone who we planned to drop anyways. Maybe a WR? Or a 4th in 2026.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 23, 2024 19:34:53 GMT -5
I never root for injuries but i hope this Lowe injury keeps this current line combination.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 24, 2024 3:42:57 GMT -5
nfltraderumors.co/?p=541107List of potential trade candidiates Ben Cleveland is really interesting. 6'6 360. Plays RG, LG, and has been working out at C. He played RG and a bit of RT at Georgia. 2020 531 snaps at RG / 77.4 run / 86.2 pass 2019 435 snaps at RG / 77.6 / 78.2 2018 206 snaps at RG / 71.9 / 90.9 www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Ben-Cleveland-OL-Georgiawww.mockdraftable.com/player/ben-clevelandDrafted in 2021. Mockdraft DB had his consensus predraft slot at 114. He was drafted in the 3rd (95th overall) by BAL. 2023 162 snaps 90% at RG / 64.6 run / 80.7 pass 2022 92 snaps at RG / 62.8 / 72.53 2021 367 snaps at LG / 56.6 / 54.8 He seems to be good in pass protection and acceptable as a run blocker. He will be a FA in 2025. I would be surprised if he commands much given his sparce usage up to now. Pats could plug him in at RG and move Onwenu back to RT. That would at least solidify the right side of the line. A 4th in 2025 looks a big rich. I would give a 5th plus anyone who we planned to drop anyways. Maybe a WR? Or a 4th in 2026. Looking at that list and this roster, RB stands out for a team that is likely run heavy this year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 24, 2024 3:43:38 GMT -5
I think this is going to be a run first team and the reports on Thornton’s blocking have been good, wouldn’t shock me if that’s why he’s earned a starting role What the recent ones from guys trying to defend Thornton starting? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 24, 2024 6:10:12 GMT -5
Bert Breer dropped a little gossip on the Judon situation. Basically said the that the front office and staff were kind of sick of him. His social media cheerleader persona was a lot different than the behind the scenes one. Said was a similar thing in Baltimore with him as well. Made a point of saying it didn’t mean he was a bad guy or anything like that just sounded like he was a lot. Add: i had only watched the segment when posting the above. Here’s a better version: patriotswire.usatoday.com/2024/08/23/latest-report-matt-judon-exit-patriots-paints-ugly-picture/ |
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 24, 2024 6:38:06 GMT -5
Marte Mapu is going to go down as the biggest miss by fans. So many people thought he was a steal and a stud and now it seems he’s never going to do anything.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 24, 2024 7:10:12 GMT -5
I think this is going to be a run first team and the reports on Thornton’s blocking have been good, wouldn’t shock me if that’s why he’s earned a starting role What the recent ones from guys trying to defend Thornton starting? Is the implication that there is a conspiracy among journalists to defend every move the patriots make? |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Aug 24, 2024 11:20:46 GMT -5
Hey, maybe we don't have it, and haven't had it, so bad around here, huh?
/photo/1
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 24, 2024 12:54:29 GMT -5
Bert Breer dropped a little gossip on the Judon situation. Basically said the that the front office and staff were kind of sick of him. His social media cheerleader persona was a lot different than the behind the scenes one. Said was a similar thing in Baltimore with him as well. Made a point of saying it didn’t mean he was a bad guy or anything like that just sounded like he was a lot. Add: i had only watched the segment when posting the above. Here’s a better version: patriotswire.usatoday.com/2024/08/23/latest-report-matt-judon-exit-patriots-paints-ugly-picture/So there it is, confirmation that Judon was telling the truth. I can't really believe social media cheerleading is why they wanted too move on. I thought Mayo said things were different now that Bill was gone? That's a rather bad look consider how many elite players do the exact same thing on social media. Maybe some day Boston teams can move on from a great player and just thank him for what he did, instead of the typical hit jobs that almost always come out. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 24, 2024 12:55:26 GMT -5
Marte Mapu is going to go down as the biggest miss by fans. So many people thought he was a steal and a stud and now it seems he’s never going to do anything. Hasn't he been injured since first practice of training camp? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 24, 2024 12:59:07 GMT -5
What the recent ones from guys trying to defend Thornton starting? Is the implication that there is a conspiracy among journalists to defend every move the patriots make? No, I might have wordred that wrong. I'm just asking did you see that from multiple people over all of training camp, or the one recent source who did it because fans were going crazy on X over Thornton starting? I've only seen it once recently, by the same guy breaking down a few routes to try and show us how good Thornton is. |
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