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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2024 21:46:10 GMT -5
My one cents (even with inflation).
I haven't seen a lot of Campbell and really only paid attention recently so just general thoughts on his defense.
He's considerably faster than the other top prospects and the others are more likely to lose speed as they mature. I haven't seen any wow throws or really bad throws so in general I'd say he's accurate but average-ish.
I've seen him make a few plays at shortstop that I don't think Mayer gets to. On the other hand, he's more quick twitch type and nowhere near as smooth as Mayer. Mayer at SS, Campbell at 2B seems more logical to me.
Relative to outfield, I differ from others in that I don't think Anthony is a center fielder whereas Campbell I do. On the other hand, Anthony has a decent arm so I'd take Anthony over Campbell in right field.
Athleticism, Campbell hands down and it's not close. He's also had less experience at the upper levels speed of the game where footwork and early reads make a bigger difference.
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Post by nonothing on Aug 21, 2024 22:17:45 GMT -5
So does anyone have a review of Campbell's defense within the last month or so at SS vs 2B vs OF? Most reviews have him as sub-50 field, but then he moves everywhere and is by all accounts a stellar athlete. Is he a legit SS prospect? Is he legit as an infield prospect at all at 2B? Are his OF solid now or projected to be? The whole projection of him as a player is mystifying. Until you can match a likely MLB starting defensive spot for him, he is just a pile of tools. I have never seen a guy everyone thought could hit like this with no real eye for where he might best fit defensively. Sometimes guys move for opportunity... but I am not sure I have ever heard of a guy this toolsy without a clear preference for where the org thought his defensive home might best be. E.g. for Rafaela, it is CF (even if he can play elsewhere). Mookie moved to OF for opportunity given Pedey. What is this guy's natural position? And is he avg or better at it? I would expect the Sox to be heavily working his defense where they expect his home to be in AFL/offseason. There are definitely occasionally guys who have absolutely amazing bats, which force them to the brink of the majors, but who have not had the time needed to develop defensively. For example Bryce Harper got shifted to the outfield after being drafted. His last baseball America scoring report in December 2011 talked about him needing to learn how to play the outfield, while he has the athleticism to play the outfield, he has never been good at it (interestingly advanced stats liked him as an outfielder as a rookie, but hate him thereafter). Obviously Campbell should not be compared to Bryce Harper, but there have always been guys who hit so well they end up in the majors even if they don’t yet have MLB quality defense. Those guys usually get stuck in the outfield. Historically that’s what the Yankees did with Babe Ruth, and what happened to Lefty O’Doul. Can anyone think of a premier hitting (non-catching) prospect who was left in the minors to work on defense? Well -- not premier hitting prospects frequently perhaps, but Valdez is quite a good hitter and sits in AAA because of his defense. So yes, that happens. But that isn't what I was saying/asking. I am simply trying to understand if we know his level of competence at each of the positions he has played.
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Post by nonothing on Aug 21, 2024 22:24:09 GMT -5
My one cents (even with inflation). I haven't seen a lot of Campbell and really only paid attention recently so just general thoughts on his defense. He's considerably faster than the other top prospects and the others are more likely to lose speed as they mature. I haven't seen any wow throws or really bad throws so in general I'd say he's accurate but average-ish. I've seen him make a few plays at shortstop that I don't think Mayer gets to. On the other hand, he's more quick twitch type and nowhere near as smooth as Mayer. Mayer at SS, Campbell at 2B seems more logical to me. Relative to outfield, I differ from others in that I don't think Anthony is a center fielder whereas Campbell I do. On the other hand, Anthony has a decent arm so I'd take Anthony over Campbell in right field. Athleticism, Campbell hands down and it's not close. He's also had less experience at the upper levels speed of the game where footwork and early reads make a bigger difference. Ty so much for your comments. Your comments on range are what I was wondering. Mayer isn't fast, but seems routine play competent. Bogaerts was as well. But not a lot of wow plays. Campbell should have the athleticism to make wow plays (as does Rafaela). But -- if he doesn't make routine plays or have the arm for deep throws, maybe he isn't a SS. From what you have seen -- do you see errors from him, or he is just not as polished as Mayer in the field? (Also, I cannot imagine the Sox have any intention for Anthony to stay in CF. They gave a guy $50M to play there. Anthony is going in a corner, where he belongs. You know it, the Sox know it. Anthony's body is a corner OF body, esp given other CFs ahead of him and no need for him to play CF in Boston.)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2024 22:30:53 GMT -5
My one cents (even with inflation). I haven't seen a lot of Campbell and really only paid attention recently so just general thoughts on his defense. He's considerably faster than the other top prospects and the others are more likely to lose speed as they mature. I haven't seen any wow throws or really bad throws so in general I'd say he's accurate but average-ish. I've seen him make a few plays at shortstop that I don't think Mayer gets to. On the other hand, he's more quick twitch type and nowhere near as smooth as Mayer. Mayer at SS, Campbell at 2B seems more logical to me. Relative to outfield, I differ from others in that I don't think Anthony is a center fielder whereas Campbell I do. On the other hand, Anthony has a decent arm so I'd take Anthony over Campbell in right field. Athleticism, Campbell hands down and it's not close. He's also had less experience at the upper levels speed of the game where footwork and early reads make a bigger difference. Ty so much for your comments. Your comments on range are what I was wondering. Mayer isn't fast, but seems routine play competent. Bogaerts was as well. But not a lot of wow plays. Campbell should have the athleticism to make wow plays (as does Rafaela). But -- if he doesn't make routine plays or have the arm for deep throws, maybe he isn't a SS. From what you have seen -- do you see errors from him, or he is just not as polished as Mayer in the field? (Also, I cannot imagine the Sox have any intention for Anthony to stay in CF. They gave a guy $50M to play there. Anthony is going in a corner, where he belongs. You know it, the Sox know it. Anthony's body is a corner OF body, esp given other CFs ahead of him and no need for him to play CF in Boston.) I don't remember seeing any errors by Campbell anyplace, on the other hand, I haven't seen enough of him that seeing an error is likely. I know for certain, he's not a butcher like say Valdez and likely not currently as good as say Sogard.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2024 22:56:13 GMT -5
General defense comment that applies to EVERYONE !
Speed of the game, expect them all to make their share of rookie mistakes. It's the nature of the game. The question is, how do they adjust. It's not just tools. Look at Duran he is the primo example.
Rafaela, Abreu and Hamilton have all made their share of rookie mistakes.
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Post by bishop on Aug 21, 2024 23:15:58 GMT -5
Well -- not premier hitting prospects frequently perhaps, but Valdez is quite a good hitter and sits in AAA because of his defense. So yes, that happens. But that isn't what I was saying/asking. I am simply trying to understand if we know his level of competence at each of the positions he has played. Is Valdez quite a good hitter though? 83 OPS+ in MLB, 93 in AAA this year. I'd wager he'd still be up in Boston as the strong side of a platoon if he was hitting even at last year's levels.
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Post by keninten on Aug 21, 2024 23:21:36 GMT -5
Realistically the Sox might get one perennial all-star out of the big 4. Maybe a couple regulars and a bench guy. Right now they all look like future all stars and that is really cool. Especially seeing this year's team just needing a few more pieces and experience to get them to be a serial WS contender. Kristian would be my best guess to be one of the bigger pieces.
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Post by bluechip on Aug 21, 2024 23:30:08 GMT -5
Well -- not premier hitting prospects frequently perhaps, but Valdez is quite a good hitter and sits in AAA because of his defense. So yes, that happens. But that isn't what I was saying/asking. I am simply trying to understand if we know his level of competence at each of the positions he has played. Is Valdez quite a good hitter though? 83 OPS+ in MLB, 93 in AAA this year. I'd wager he'd still be up in Boston as the strong side of a platoon if he was hitting even at last year's levels. I agree. Valdez needs to have a better glove since the bat doesn’t play well enough for corner outfield or DH. Campbell has a chance to hit well enough where he forces himself onto the roster in left field. I
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 22, 2024 0:14:02 GMT -5
Is Valdez quite a good hitter though? 83 OPS+ in MLB, 93 in AAA this year. I'd wager he'd still be up in Boston as the strong side of a platoon if he was hitting even at last year's levels. I agree. Valdez needs to have a better glove since the bat doesn’t play well enough for corner outfield or DH. Campbell has a chance to hit well enough where he forces himself onto the roster in left field. I I should think utility. He's apparently being bred for that.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 22, 2024 7:57:36 GMT -5
I just read that Refsnyder is contemplating retiring after the season to spend more time with his family. I should think that would increase the odds of Campbell's right handed bat breaking camp next year.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 22, 2024 8:11:41 GMT -5
I just read that Refsnyder is contemplating retiring after the season to spend more time with his family. I should think that would increase the odds of Campbell's right handed bat breaking camp next year. It might raise the odds slightly but on the same end, calling up Campbell to fill the Refsnyder role might not be in Campbell's best interest. Campbell at this point in his development should be playing everyday not filling the role as a RHH off the bench playing sparingly. I should think if Campbell gets the call out of the gate next year it would probably be to be the starter at 2nd base. I think I'd rather just see Hamilton/Grissom as the options at 2nd base out of the gate, assuming that Story if healthy probably gets first crack at SS.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 22, 2024 9:20:42 GMT -5
I just read that Refsnyder is contemplating retiring after the season to spend more time with his family. I should think that would increase the odds of Campbell's right handed bat breaking camp next year. It might raise the odds slightly but on the same end, calling up Campbell to fill the Refsnyder role might not be in Campbell's best interest. Campbell at this point in his development should be playing everyday not filling the role as a RHH off the bench playing sparingly. I should think if Campbell gets the call out of the gate next year it would probably be to be the starter at 2nd base. I think I'd rather just see Hamilton/Grissom as the options at 2nd base out of the gate, assuming that Story if healthy probably gets first crack at SS. Who said to replace Refsnyder's role ? Keep in mind, as stated above, I think Campbell is our #1 prospect. ADD: If Story/Campbell are our starting keystone combo, that's an increase of two right handed bats.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 22, 2024 9:24:45 GMT -5
It might raise the odds slightly but on the same end, calling up Campbell to fill the Refsnyder role might not be in Campbell's best interest. Campbell at this point in his development should be playing everyday not filling the role as a RHH off the bench playing sparingly. I should think if Campbell gets the call out of the gate next year it would probably be to be the starter at 2nd base. I think I'd rather just see Hamilton/Grissom as the options at 2nd base out of the gate, assuming that Story if healthy probably gets first crack at SS. Who said to replace Refsnyder's role ? Keep in mind, as stated above, I think Campbell is our #1 prospect. ADD: If Story/Campbell are our starting keystone combo, that's an increase of two right handed bats. I thought that was what you were getting at when correlated a possible Ref retirement to making it more likely Campbell gets the call? Sounds like I was wrong.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 22, 2024 10:30:45 GMT -5
All this talk about positional flexibility got me thinking about Ben Zobrist. He started 794 games at 2b, 363 in RF, 196 at SS, 107 in Left, and 24 in Center. Posted 44.5 bWar (39.2 obWAR). His average season was .266/.357/.426 with 50 XBH in his prime (which didn't start until age 28!). It's also funny to see Zobrist's Similarity Scores are majority 1950s era players.
In his last year of college and pro career to date, Campbell has done 83 games at 2B, 24 in CF, 24 at SS, 10 in LF, and 2 each 3B and RF.
If this is our core (Duran/Devers/Casas and then Mayer/Anthony etc.), a Ben Zobrist type is a top-notch addition to that core. Now, obviously we all keep asking what he can play well, and based on his athleticism and baseball IQ, I'm hoping that his current mix is sustainable. I'm glad for him to become an every day 2b, but I'm also glad for him to be a little more.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Aug 22, 2024 22:29:48 GMT -5
Has Campbell put himself in conversation to compete with Grissom for opening day next year?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2024 0:36:50 GMT -5
Has Campbell put himself in conversation to compete with Grissom for opening day next year? It doesn't have to be one or the other but Grissom has the 40 man advantage.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 23, 2024 0:42:54 GMT -5
Has Campbell put himself in conversation to compete with Grissom for opening day next year? It doesn't have to be one or the other but Grissom has the 40 man advantage. It’s fair to wonder who might get the 40 man boot to accommodate Campbell next year? I’d assume Romy. I’d personally also would like Grissom to start getting some reps in LF. If Campbell keeps raking and Hamilton finishes the season strong, it’s gonna be very hard not to see that as the most ideal 2B platoon.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2024 1:00:17 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be one or the other but Grissom has the 40 man advantage. It’s fair to wonder who might get the 40 man boot to accommodate Campbell next year? I’d assume Romy. I’d personally also would like Grissom to start getting some reps in LF. If Campbell keeps raking and Hamilton finishes the season strong, it’s gonna be very hard not to see that as the most ideal 2B platoon. Romy is versatile, decent and has options. Dalbec screams me,me,me. Also I'd expect some 40 man maneuvers this coming off season so, no sense in thinking about that now. This stuff sorts itself out.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 23, 2024 1:05:07 GMT -5
It’s fair to wonder who might get the 40 man boot to accommodate Campbell next year? I’d assume Romy. I’d personally also would like Grissom to start getting some reps in LF. If Campbell keeps raking and Hamilton finishes the season strong, it’s gonna be very hard not to see that as the most ideal 2B platoon. Romy is versatile, decent and has options. Dalbec screams me,me,me. Also I'd expect some 40 man maneuvers this coming off season so, no sense in thinking about that now. This stuff sorts itself out. Holy cow, Dalbec is in such a purgatory I actually have now completely forgotten about him… But yes, too early to say now, but definitely intrigued to see how 2B plays out next season.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 23, 2024 1:15:21 GMT -5
To me, the best options since Pedroia.
Other major factors, Story's health, whether or not the Sox pursue O'Neil, free gents and whether or not some of the big 3 are dealt for pitching. None of which are givens one way or another.
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 23, 2024 19:30:03 GMT -5
HR for Campbell. His 1rst in AAA. Its unreal how fast this kid has propelled. Id say he could be called up before any of the big 3
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 23, 2024 19:36:51 GMT -5
Exit Velocity 105.3 mph Distance 422 ft Launch Angle 31 deg
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 23, 2024 21:01:09 GMT -5
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Post by patford on Aug 23, 2024 21:04:58 GMT -5
He appears to be the real deal.
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Post by tjb21 on Aug 23, 2024 21:23:05 GMT -5
What in the world is up with him? Lethal bat!
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