SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by pappyman99 on Jul 31, 2024 16:05:08 GMT -5
B-
A- for protecting our future B for addressing our needs C for quality of players traded for
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2024 20:53:42 GMT -5
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,490
|
Post by asm18 on Jul 31, 2024 21:49:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 31, 2024 22:18:31 GMT -5
She sure does have her fans -- they show up in every article's comments, "Thanks, Jen!" & "Great reporting, Jen!" & "Thanks so much, Jen." I've wondered for awhile if they were sock-puppets. But maybe not. She's okay. I don't mean to disparage her work. But I rarely read her anymore because I never feel afterwards like I now know more than I knew before. This article was no different. What did you find A+ about it? Maybe how neatly it was laid out, constructed with subcategories and so forth?
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Aug 1, 2024 0:39:37 GMT -5
McCaffrey never does rage bait and gets insider access. That's all I want from a beat reporter
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 1, 2024 3:06:14 GMT -5
She sure does have her fans -- they show up in every article's comments, "Thanks, Jen!" & "Great reporting, Jen!" & "Thanks so much, Jen." I've wondered for awhile if they were sock-puppets. But maybe not. She's okay. I don't mean to disparage her work. But I rarely read her anymore because I never feel afterwards like I now know more than I knew before. This article was no different. What did you find A+ about it? Maybe how neatly it was laid out, constructed with subcategories and so forth? What julyanmorley said. She seems to have inside access on her opinions. She's writing to the average fan, not the top posters here. I'm pretty sure she follows Sox Prospects and gets some of her ideas here but that's a good thing. The fact that she didn't say anything that you didn't already 'know' says a lot about the quality of her work. My comment audience was intended for the average reader. ADD: Keep in mind that her average reader is a Red Sox fan, not a Red Sox prospects fan.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 1, 2024 6:34:49 GMT -5
I believe teams asked for this but I’m also certain they would’ve accepted less given none of the relievers moved went for prospects even really close to Mayer or Anthony. Not that I’m mad they didn’t match any of the deals but this is just PR spin from the Sox Cora was being interviewed - it's not like da was a press release. The context could easily be that it was a colloquial answer to a question asking about the prices teams seemed to be paying, not "why didn't you make more trades?" or something.
|
|
|
Post by cba82 on Aug 1, 2024 6:40:07 GMT -5
Not sure we win last night’s game without Sims. The bullpen was cooked.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 1, 2024 6:51:56 GMT -5
I believe teams asked for this but I’m also certain they would’ve accepted less given none of the relievers moved went for prospects even really close to Mayer or Anthony. Not that I’m mad they didn’t match any of the deals but this is just PR spin from the Sox Cora was being interviewed - it's not like da was a press release. The context could easily be that it was a colloquial answer to a question asking about the prices teams seemed to be paying, not "why didn't you make more trades?" or something. I don’t mean to make it sound like Cora or the team was doing anything nefarious or even wrong here. I was more reacting to the takes on twitter seeing this and being reacting like “oh of course the Red Sox didn’t acquire bigger players then” when in reality they certainly could’ve competed on offers for some of the better players moved without including Mayer or Anthony. I’m also not saying I wish they did that (other than maybe for Eflin), I think they picked an appropriate path for where they were at.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 1, 2024 6:58:49 GMT -5
Cora was being interviewed - it's not like da was a press release. The context could easily be that it was a colloquial answer to a question asking about the prices teams seemed to be paying, not "why didn't you make more trades?" or something. I don’t mean to make it sound like Cora or the team was doing anything nefarious or even wrong here. I was more reacting to the takes on twitter seeing this and being reacting like “oh of course the Red Sox didn’t acquire bigger players then” when in reality they certainly could’ve competed on offers for some of the better players moved without including Mayer or Anthony. I’m also not saying I wish they did that (other than maybe for Eflin), I think they picked an appropriate path for where they were at. I was responding to your comment that it was PR spin.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 1, 2024 7:15:44 GMT -5
I don’t mean to make it sound like Cora or the team was doing anything nefarious or even wrong here. I was more reacting to the takes on twitter seeing this and being reacting like “oh of course the Red Sox didn’t acquire bigger players then” when in reality they certainly could’ve competed on offers for some of the better players moved without including Mayer or Anthony. I’m also not saying I wish they did that (other than maybe for Eflin), I think they picked an appropriate path for where they were at. I was responding to your comment that it was PR spin. well yeah I mean he said a thing that was maybe literally true, but intentionally glossed over reality, with the main benefit of that being that people would speak more nicely about the trade deadline. I don’t think it was really that deep I’m sure he was speaking light-heartedly, maybe his intention wasn’t to mislead people but that’s where it obviously was going to end up
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 1, 2024 8:46:24 GMT -5
McCaffrey said... ...which is kind of a funny way to put it because actually they didn't trade away any of their top 11 prospects. Which I think is actually interesting in light of the fact that they traded away a lot of guys in the Jansen and Garcia trades. Seems clear Breslow was more comfortable giving up quantity than quality. (And it might be that Lugo, Paulino, etc. didn't even rank as highly in the team's own view than they rank on SP.)
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Aug 1, 2024 9:19:11 GMT -5
(And it might be that Lugo, Paulino, etc. didn't even rank as highly in the team's own view than they rank on SP.)
If the SP rankings were a trade value ranking rather then they would have ranked lower. I have found that team behavior is much easier to predict if you assign a numerical cost to eating a 40 man roster spot - .25 WAR or $2 million or whatever you want to conjure out of thin air.
|
|
|
Post by awalkinthepark on Aug 1, 2024 9:31:20 GMT -5
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,490
|
Post by asm18 on Aug 1, 2024 9:39:55 GMT -5
Why does the Magic Computer think that adding better players helps you win more games
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 1, 2024 9:40:08 GMT -5
Per the article this is due to 3 things: 1) ZiPS likes Danny Jansen, 2) ZiPS full model likes Paxton more than the in-season model, 3) they are the biggest beneficiaries of the Blue Jays and Rays getting much worse. Number 3 is I think the biggest factor here.
|
|
|
Post by awalkinthepark on Aug 1, 2024 9:42:14 GMT -5
Per the article this is due to 3 things: 1) ZiPS likes Danny Jansen, 2) ZiPS full model likes Paxton more than the in-season model, 3) they are the biggest beneficiaries of the Blue Jays and Rays getting much worse. It seems to me that similar to O'Neill getting a really good ZiPS projection in the offseason, it thinks Jansen is a really good fit for Fenway. Feeling really good about this addition.
|
|
|
Post by blizzards39 on Aug 1, 2024 11:27:47 GMT -5
I was just thinking about what/ if anything the Sox can expect from " other players". Of coarse we could see some DFAs and Fas but i dout much if any impactful players move teams. I was thinking about the long term injuries and the minors. Sorgard is now up and thats good but not going to excite many and nobody not on this board. What are the odds that the following guys make a contribution the rest of the way. I both A - playing games and B - producing Martin / Slaten. Hope there both back and productive. Casas - most obvious. Im a little sceptical but im also excited. Grissom- should get a chance Story - id like to think so but??? Anthony - no Meyer - just maybe. Just hole his injury in minor Teel - unlikely Campbell- doutful ( maybe the other Campbell figures it out) Preistner - there is a chance Hendricks - i dont know. Just maybe.
My point here is the Sox have ALOT OF PLAYERS that have the talent to help Down the stretch. If the team is going to make a push its all but certain some of these guys will have been a part of it.
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Aug 1, 2024 12:15:47 GMT -5
McCaffrey said... ...which is kind of a funny way to put it because actually they didn't trade away any of their top 11 prospects. Which I think is actually interesting in light of the fact that they traded away a lot of guys in the Jansen and Garcia trades. Seems clear Breslow was more comfortable giving up quantity than quality. (And it might be that Lugo, Paulino, etc. didn't even rank as highly in the team's own view than they rank on SP.)
(And it might be that Lugo, Paulino, etc. didn't even rank as highly in the team's own view than they rank on SP.)
If the SP rankings were a trade value ranking rather then they would have ranked lower. I have found that team behavior is much easier to predict if you assign a numerical cost to eating a 40 man roster spot - .25 WAR or $2 million or whatever you want to conjure out of thin air. Trading volume makes sense because of exactly the 40-man dynamic. Ben Cherington failed to do this when he had a system and hoarded too many prospects. Dombrowski is the opposite and recognizes that most of your value comes from your top 12 guys on your team in the offseason and then your top 26 for the playoffs. Anyone not in those groups is expendable unless he is highly convicted they will be in the top 12 within 1-2 yrs. So he will gut the depth to lift the top of the roster. Hoarding prospects makes sense in a rebuild, hence Cherington fit a rebuild team. Trading to win fits teams that Dombrowski has gone to in his career. Breslow is in the in between phase and doing it well. He is trading away the guys who would have to sit in AAA eating 40-man spots who are unlikely to add much beyond (or any beyond) replacement value where replacement value is based on the players in the Red Sox system (not fWAR or bWAR). Those guys and the lottery ticket guys who they can replace with new DSL/FCL guys were expendable at this point in our build cycle to improve the MLB club. I think it was exactly the correct approach from an asset management perspective. There may have been other available deals that could have been reasonable as well -- and maybe some wish they did more -- but the deals they made all make sense Even if you guys want to value Sogard below a guy like Paulino on his potential, Paulino was not likely to ever play for the Red Sox. Sogard is a switch hitter capable of contributing today. He does not have split issues (this is a very big deal) -- and he plays solid defense inc SS (also a very big deal). I don't think the Red Sox front office thinks he is less valuable at 26 vs a few years younger because he is already now probably now one grade below Paulino's potential ceiling. Hoarding guys in AAA who take up roster spots but are not likely to meaningfully contribute over the next 1-2 yrs is a fool's errand unless your team is truly at the depths of a rebuild. The 40-man roster limit is truly impactful to these calculations, and I think the DRL limitation is as well. Like is Paulino more worth a 40-man spot this winter for the Red Sox, or a pitcher bumped off another 40-man who maybe hasn't reach full potential on another club? I would rather find a guy for the pitching lab to work with. I think Bres&Co would too. Other teams have different needs. The Espinal comp somebody made I think is very fair. Espinal has had real value to the Blue Jays... but was he likely to play here in the window that was most relevant, and have we really missed him so much? And where I said Paulino here, I could have said Lugo or Coffey or Kavadas... similar enough situations for all (if each a bit different).
|
|
|
Post by patford on Aug 1, 2024 12:31:58 GMT -5
I was just thinking about what/ if anything the Sox can expect from " other players". Of coarse we could see some DFAs and Fas but i dout much if any impactful players move teams. I was thinking about the long term injuries and the minors. Sorgard is now up and thats good but not going to excite many and nobody not on this board. What are the odds that the following guys make a contribution the rest of the way. I both A - playing games and B - producing Martin / Slaten. Hope there both back and productive. Casas - most obvious. Im a little sceptical but im also excited. Grissom- should get a chance Story - id like to think so but??? Anthony - no Meyer - just maybe. Just hole his injury in minor Teel - unlikely Campbell- doutful ( maybe the other Campbell figures it out) Preistner - there is a chance Hendricks - i dont know. Just maybe. My point here is the Sox have ALOT OF PLAYERS that have the talent to help Down the stretch. If the team is going to make a push its all but certain some of these guys will have been a part of it. Has there been any reporting Story might be back the tail end of this year? Edit. I had completely missed this: nesn.com/2024/07/could-trevor-story-return-this-season-red-sox-infielder-reveals-possibility/
|
|
|
Post by chaimtime on Aug 1, 2024 12:59:18 GMT -5
McCaffrey never does rage bait and gets insider access. That's all I want from a beat reporter I really think a lot of the rage bait we see from both local and national media is because the front office is pretty airtight, so these guys don’t have anything else to write about
|
|
soxin8
Veteran
Posts: 717
Member is Online
|
Post by soxin8 on Aug 1, 2024 15:09:05 GMT -5
Per the article this is due to 3 things: 1) ZiPS likes Danny Jansen, 2) ZiPS full model likes Paxton more than the in-season model, 3) they are the biggest beneficiaries of the Blue Jays and Rays getting much worse. Number 3 is I think the biggest factor here. Of the Sox last 12 games, there are 3 against Toronto and 6 against TB. They also have 3 more against the White Sox in early Sept. That should be a good month for them.
|
|
|
Post by soxinjersey on Aug 1, 2024 22:06:55 GMT -5
A lot of interesting observations in this thread, but I believe all are made from the perspective of what is good for the major league team and the Red Sox organization. What happens if we turn this discussion around and think about the players shipped out? This may be wishful thinking, but I like to believe that in a good organization, coaches and managers will be invested in the ultimate success of the players they coach not only here but elsewhere. How do Red Sox people feel, for example, about Matthew Lugo, who has been in the organization for five years, Nick Yorke (four years), and Niko Kavadas (three)? A couple of days ago, they were blocked in the Red Sox organization with only a small chance to make it to the Show and create a career there. Today, they are in situations where their pathways are much more promising, especially for Yorke, who maybe has a chance to play meaningful games in the majors in September. I like to imagine the Red Sox organization and these players' former teammates as happy for them. I think it's fair to give Breslow a B/B- for this trade deadline if you are evaluating how much he has helped the major league team improve, but I don't think that's the proper grading scale. His aims (as I see them) were modest: strengthen specific areas of the major league team without giving up any part of the future. Not only did he do this, but he brought in a talented young pitcher who might make the Sox significantly stronger as early as September. Further, he loosened the logjam in the high minors and thus opened the door to a promotion for players like the Portland 4. Meanwhile, the highest ranked of the players traded will be able to pursue their dreams with higher hopes. My conclusion: I believe that Breslow as GM will be attuned to his players' hopes and aspirations. In that sense, it feels to me that at this trade deadline he hit the bull's eye he was aiming at. From the outside it is extremely difficult to gauge feelings within a team, but my guess is that this Sox team feels good right now, and that the word on the street about them is positive. This past off-season, Boston did not seem a valued destination for free agents. If I'm a pitcher, especially, I suspect that it looks much better now.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 2, 2024 13:41:55 GMT -5
Fangraphs ranked all 92 prospects traded at the deadline. Unlike... BA, was it?... they had a few of these guys in their top 100:
72. Agustin Ramirez (NYY->MIA) 73. Liranzo (LAD->DET)
88. Lesko (SDP->TBR) 92. Bloss (Hou->TOR)
Where the Red Sox' prospects ranked among the 92 traded, with FV:
10. Yorke (45) 29. Paulino (40) 31. Coffey (40) 49. Portes (35+) 60. Lugo (35+) 64. Vargas (35+) 68. Kavadas (35) 85. Zeferlahn (35) 89. Batista (35) 91. Bolivar (35)
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,490
|
Post by asm18 on Aug 2, 2024 20:26:27 GMT -5
Kikuchi has 10 k’s (including 8 in a row) so far in 72 pitches vs the Rays tonight for the Astros. *que the “they called me a Madman” Thanos meme*
|
|
|