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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 24, 2024 13:59:53 GMT -5
Hear me out… Yosh for Robbie Ray. Sox need SP help and to unclog DH… both bad contracts… Rays is for a shorter term… do the Giants hang up the phone? If you’re going to overpay at least do it from somewhere you need help. Baseball Trade Values has it Ray -$30M and Yosh -$24M but get the sense that the Sox would have to add a sweetener I’ve floated this before but I just don’t see it now after his trade to the giants. They Suck but they are only 3 games out of the lowest standard of a 3rd wild card spot
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asm18
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Posts: 2,546
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Post by asm18 on Jun 24, 2024 14:05:13 GMT -5
Yoshida on a 3 yr/30M contract is probably over payed by 20-25M. According to an old FG valuation article that would require a low end FV50. FG hasn't done their Sox team list yet, but that would presumably require adding a Bleis/Cespedes type prospect for zero return. The Sox would be better off just cutting him instead of trying to trade him and pay down the cost in prospect capital. The only type of trade that would make sense would be if the Sox took back a bad contract they liked better for whatever reason. DHs who are over 30 and put up 100-110 wRC+ (a lot better than what he's doing now) sign one year contracts for 8-10M if they're lucky. It's hard to imagine any team would want to make a 3 year commitment to Yoshida. You basically have to pay years 2 and 3 down to zero. Would add to to this that a big swath of front offices were snickering to ESPN they had hated the contract when it was signed. so it’s not like many teams were super high on Yoshida as a trade asset before his rough 2024. (Dodgers and Blue Jays were allegedly also in the running after the Red Sox.) Now if Masa goes back to hitting like he did last summer, maybe that’s a different story. Until he starts to hit again, not sure many teams would want him, even for free. He’s a negative WAR player right now. I mean if he were hitting, Sox fans wouldn’t be discussing trying to move him!
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 14:38:14 GMT -5
As we round into July, looking at the standings I am thinking the deadline might be a big nothing burger this year. In the NL there are only two teams out of contention, the AL there are four or five. Looking at the teams that are out of it, I'm not sure how much of use there would be to trade for on those rosters. There will be a handful of useful players I am sure but if 20+ teams think they are in the playoff hunt prices are going to be jacked way up.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 24, 2024 14:50:10 GMT -5
The only thing more frustrating than the Yoshida situation is realizing there are nearly identical circumstances attached to Trevor Story. Quite literally the same problem, but twice.
3 years @ approx $44M/yr committed to the duo. No easy solution, and particularly with Yoshida, there does seem to be an added layer of risk in harming the BoSox reputation within the Japanese player circle.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 24, 2024 14:51:20 GMT -5
Could SS be our biggest need other than a starter? Would free up Ceddanne. to play CF full time. DH TON. Use Masa strategically. DH against a tough righty. Can rest TON or Ceddanne.
A slick-fielding SS could really upgrade D at two spots. With Ceddanne in CF playing at a gold glove level there.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 14:54:38 GMT -5
The only thing more frustrating than the Yoshida situation is realizing there are nearly identical circumstances attached to Trevor Story. Quite literally the same problem, but twice. 3 years @ approx $44M/yr committed to the duo. No easy solution, and particularly with Yoshida, there does seem to be an added layer of risk in harming the BoSox reputation within the Japanese player circle. I don't really see the circumstances being all that similar, if Story is healthy he has shown the ability to play GG caliber defense at 2nd/SS so he's got a much higher floor. He doesn't need to hit that well to add serious value where as Yoshida needs to mash in order to have any value which he hasn't done.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 14:56:48 GMT -5
Could SS be our biggest need other than a starter?Would free up Ceddanne. to play CF full time. DH TON. Use Masa strategically. DH against a tough righty. Can rest TON or Ceddanne. A slick-fielding SS could really upgrade D at two spots. With Ceddanne in CF playing at a gold glove level there. I'm still saying I would like to see the Sox make a run at Paul DeJong, he makes a lot of sense IMO. I would understand if they didn't go after him since Hamilton/Valdez/Romy with Rafaela sprinkled in can cover MI but I think DeJong raises the floor of the position and is a great fit with his solid glove and RHH bat to mix and match with Hamilton/Valdez at 2nd/SS and would allow Rafaela to just play CF which you pointed out.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 14:57:22 GMT -5
Could SS be our biggest need other than a starter? Would free up Ceddanne. to play CF full time. DH TON. Use Masa strategically. DH against a tough righty. Can rest TON or Ceddanne. A slick-fielding SS could really upgrade D at two spots. With Ceddanne in CF playing at a gold glove level there. I don't think the Red Sox are playing Rafaela at short because they need him there, I think they're doing it because they have too many good outfielders. You want to start all of Duran, O'Neill, Abreu, and Rafaela on most days, the only way to do it is to play Rafaela at shortstop, or DH one of the outfielders but they also are trying to get Yoshida going and they want to play Refsnyder against every lefty. Hamilton's been okay enough defensively at short for a while now IMO.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jun 24, 2024 14:59:17 GMT -5
The only thing more frustrating than the Yoshida situation is realizing there are nearly identical circumstances attached to Trevor Story. Quite literally the same problem, but twice. 3 years @ approx $44M/yr committed to the duo. No easy solution, and particularly with Yoshida, there does seem to be an added layer of risk in harming the BoSox reputation within the Japanese player circle. I don't really see the circumstances being all that similar, if Story is healthy he has shown the ability to play GG caliber defense at 2nd/SS so he's got a much higher floor. He doesn't need to hit that well to add serious value where as Yoshida needs to mash in order to have any value which he hasn't done. That's true and he may be easier to move as a result of that higher floor (although he does make $8M more than Yoshida). I meant more from the standpoint of them not really being needed on the roster in the short-term, and certainly not in the long-term. And the contract duration is 3 years for each, which is not a short period of time. What do you do? There isn't a clear role or playing time for either, how do they recover their value? Story may have an easier go at it for early '25, but what if Mayer/Hamilton/Grissom/Yorke/Meidroth and co. are too good to keep down?
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 15:01:48 GMT -5
Could SS be our biggest need other than a starter?Would free up Ceddanne. to play CF full time. DH TON. Use Masa strategically. DH against a tough righty. Can rest TON or Ceddanne. A slick-fielding SS could really upgrade D at two spots. With Ceddanne in CF playing at a gold glove level there. I'm still saying I would like to see the Sox make a run at Paul DeJong, he makes a lot of sense IMO. I would understand if they didn't go after him since Hamilton/Valdez/Romy with Rafaela sprinkled in can cover MI but I think DeJong raises the floor of the position and is a great fit with his solid glove and RHH bat to mix and match with Hamilton/Valdez at 2nd/SS and would allow Rafaela to just play CF which you pointed out. So DeJong takes Romy's roster spot? Not sure I see it because Romy's presumably also the backup 1B and 3B. Could take Valdez or Hamilton's spot but then you lose the platoon opportunity.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 24, 2024 15:17:40 GMT -5
Could SS be our biggest need other than a starter? Would free up Ceddanne. to play CF full time. DH TON. Use Masa strategically. DH against a tough righty. Can rest TON or Ceddanne. A slick-fielding SS could really upgrade D at two spots. With Ceddanne in CF playing at a gold glove level there. I don't think the Red Sox are playing Rafaela at short because they need him there, I think they're doing it because they have too many good outfielders. You want to start all of Duran, O'Neill, Abreu, and Rafaela on most days, the only way to do it is to play Rafaela at shortstop, or DH one of the outfielders but they also are trying to get Yoshida going and they want to play Refsnyder against every lefty. Hamilton's been okay enough defensively at short for a while now IMO. Hate to say it but if Valdez is hitting then they're better off with Hamilton manning SS, Rafaela in CF with Duran and Abreu/Refsnyder in the corners and O'Neill getting the DH atbats. Yoshida is providing next to nothing. Should Valdez struggle then they could go back to Rafaela at SS, and move O'Neil back to LF and shift Duran to CF. But for now, I'd go with Valdez over Yoshida. I honestly dont know if Yoshida is completely healthy. Seems like they just threw him back in the lineup without getting more rehab ABs, moreso than even Grissom.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 15:34:25 GMT -5
I'm still saying I would like to see the Sox make a run at Paul DeJong, he makes a lot of sense IMO. I would understand if they didn't go after him since Hamilton/Valdez/Romy with Rafaela sprinkled in can cover MI but I think DeJong raises the floor of the position and is a great fit with his solid glove and RHH bat to mix and match with Hamilton/Valdez at 2nd/SS and would allow Rafaela to just play CF which you pointed out. So DeJong takes Romy's roster spot? Not sure I see it because Romy's presumably also the backup 1B and 3B. Could take Valdez or Hamilton's spot but then you lose the platoon opportunity. Possibly, a lot would depend on Hamilton and Valdez. I'm not really ready to say that those guys are the answer at the MI spots for the rest of this season. They've been instrumental in the recent run they're on so hopefully it's not just a hot streak but we'll see. Sure if the deadline was today I'd say let's roll with the hot hands but who knows about one month from now how it'll look.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2024 15:35:13 GMT -5
Everyone seems to have decided that today is the time to come to conclusions about exactly what kind of player Yoshida is. I don't think it could possibly be a *worse* time. He was out for over a month and a half, they gave him one rehab game, and he's gotten 37 PAs since getting back. Why the need to decide Right. Now. what he is and what they ought to do with him?
Reminder: in his last 36 PAs *before* hitting the IL, he was hitting .344/.417/.563.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 24, 2024 16:45:52 GMT -5
Everyone seems to have decided that today is the time to come to conclusions about exactly what kind of player Yoshida is. I don't think it could possibly be a *worse* time. He was out for over a month and a half, they gave him one rehab game, and he's gotten 37 PAs since getting back. Why the need to decide Right. Now. what he is and what they ought to do with him? Reminder: in his last 36 PAs *before* hitting the IL, he was hitting .344/.417/.563. It's more complicated than that. It impacts where Rafaela plays defensively as it impacts both the infield and outfield defense. A healthy Yoshida probably shows more than he has this year but if Valdez is hitting, are they better off moving Rafaela, Hamilton, and Duran back and forth between two positions?
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 24, 2024 16:53:26 GMT -5
I was bullish on the Yoshida signing when everyone and their mother in the industry were panning the Red Sox, and early returns favored the Sox, but since the middle of last season he has become unplayable on defense and an extreme ground ball hitter. The question for me is when does the sunken cost overwhelm the poor roster fit for him.
He may be a good hitter ultimately, when healthy, but he's too expensive for a primary DH with no positional value what so ever. At some point they have to cut bait, Duran, Hamilton and the depth they have are > Yoshida right now and that roster spot could be better used.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 24, 2024 22:07:44 GMT -5
My hope is the rangers just are out of it and we land Nate
Otherwise this is an incredibly tight sellers market this year
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 24, 2024 22:23:07 GMT -5
Yeah I want one starter .
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 24, 2024 22:33:44 GMT -5
Tyler Anderson could be a target and the Angels are not known for making brilliant transactions, so maybe there's a reasonable trade to be had.
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Post by trotman on Jun 25, 2024 6:12:04 GMT -5
Jeff Passana’s latest trade deadline has the Red Sox targeting infield versatility in the form of Luis Rengifo. He’s hitting well and can play all over the infield but is mainly a MI. His contract runs through 25. Seems like it’s crowding the existing depth
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jun 25, 2024 6:33:30 GMT -5
Jeff Passana’s latest trade deadline has the Red Sox targeting infield versatility in the form of Luis Rengifo. He’s hitting well and can play all over the infield but is mainly a MI. His contract runs through 25. Seems like it’s crowding the existing depth Switch hitter with a .994 ops against lefties this year (albeit in 50 ABs). He's always hot lefties better. The Angels might be a team that would value a couple just about MLB ready players to fill out their roster. Their lineup is dreadful.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jun 25, 2024 6:37:07 GMT -5
Jeff Passana’s latest trade deadline has the Red Sox targeting infield versatility in the form of Luis Rengifo. He’s hitting well and can play all over the infield but is mainly a MI. His contract runs through 25. Seems like it’s crowding the existing depth The article is Passan speculating who'd make sense for Boston if they continue to play well into the deadline, not that they're actively interested in a MI bat.
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Post by trotman on Jun 25, 2024 7:10:36 GMT -5
Jeff Passana’s latest trade deadline has the Red Sox targeting infield versatility in the form of Luis Rengifo. He’s hitting well and can play all over the infield but is mainly a MI. His contract runs through 25. Seems like it’s crowding the existing depth The article is Passan speculating who'd make sense for Boston if they continue to play well into the deadline, not that they're actively interested in a MI bat. I guess we're quibbling over semantics. His article is literally "In order of record, here are teams and their ideal targets." Inside his article he identifies 12 playoff teams and their biggest weakness and corresponding best match. I passed along the article because it's interesting that he identifies the Red Sox biggest weakness as Infield Versatility.
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nomar
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Posts: 11,501
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Post by nomar on Jun 25, 2024 7:27:49 GMT -5
Rengifo has a 57% GB rate an xwOBA under .300
He’s getting lucky and not hitting well in term of quality of contact
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 25, 2024 7:43:56 GMT -5
Not too interested in Rengifo. The roster doesn't really need another mediocre MI option. I don't see Rengifo being any better than Romy. I swear these writers just think the Red Sox suck and don't bother paying any attention to them and when they do have to write about them just pull stuff from who knows where based off their feelings from before the season even started.
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Post by greenmonster on Jun 25, 2024 7:52:34 GMT -5
Given the emergence of Rafaela and Hamilton I am not sure if Rengifo is what the Sox need at this point. However, I wonder if the Angels might have some interest in Yoshida. Southern CA has a large Japanese population and The Angel fan base is very disappointed in losing Ohtani. Obviously Yoshida is not half of the player that Ohtani is but perhaps the Angels might seem him as someone the fans could connect with. They don't exactly have alot of depth in the outfield either.
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