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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 25, 2024 12:17:20 GMT -5
While it is true that there are not a lot of current sellers with arms to trade that have been definitively better than Cooper Criswell this year (it’s basically like Crochet and Fedde until some other teams enter the Seller-palooza), that the team has sent him down to Triple A to chill in Worcester for a bit because of “off-days” does not inspire a whole lot of confidence. Where is the idea the White Sox are looking to move Crochet coming from? Crochet is a 25 year old LH pitcher. Exactly the sort of player a team planing on a rebuild would want to keep. Teams looking to rebuild are generally looking to unload older players with big contracts. Fedde is 31 so he's a maybe although this is the first year where he's been good. His name has been floated around by baseball writers and he makes a lot of sense for them to trade if you ask me. He has 2.5 years of control left, they're a terrible team and likely will continue to be terrible the next several seasons and his value is probably at an all time high with how he has pitched so far this year.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 12:23:32 GMT -5
While it is true that there are not a lot of current sellers with arms to trade that have been definitively better than Cooper Criswell this year (it’s basically like Crochet and Fedde until some other teams enter the Seller-palooza), that the team has sent him down to Triple A to chill in Worcester for a bit because of “off-days” does not inspire a whole lot of confidence. Where is the idea the White Sox are looking to move Crochet coming from? Crochet is a 25 year old LH pitcher. Exactly the sort of player a team planing on a rebuild would want to keep. Teams looking to rebuild are generally looking to unload older players with big contracts. Fedde is 31 so he's a maybe although this is the first year where he's been good. Crochet only has 2.5 years of control. The White Sox aren't going to be good before he hits free agency and the longer they wait to trade him the less value he has.
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Post by jdb on Jun 25, 2024 12:23:33 GMT -5
With us being $13ish under wouldn’t that be prorated and us able to take on a much higher contract? Gausman might be on the block and Bailey is familiar with him.
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Post by strike23 on Jun 25, 2024 12:24:59 GMT -5
I've seen Eovaldi and DeGrom thrown around if Texas finds themselves out of it but what about Scherzer? Last year of his deal and I think we'd stay under the tax even paying him the remaining ~20M and most other competitive teams are either getting hit with some extreme penalties on that or have payroll constraints so I can't imagine he'd be that expensive I don’t think so. With the extensions they can only take on like $13m to stay under. I entirely forgot about the extensions impacting payroll this year, based on the new payroll tab I should have checked they've got $13.25 and the Mets are eating half of Scherzers money so he's only $22.5 against the tax this year. Being wrong twice really worked out for me here and we can just divide the earlier numbers in half. Less of an advantage against other teams, O's might have a lot of interest as well.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 12:25:44 GMT -5
With us being $13ish under wouldn’t that be prorated and us able to take on a much higher contract? Gausman might be on the block and Bailey is familiar with him. The Blue Jays wouldn't trade Gausman unless they're going full rebuild, I don't imagine, and I don't think they're going to do that when they still have Vlad, Bichette, and good starting pitching through 2025.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 25, 2024 12:26:52 GMT -5
I don’t think so. With the extensions they can only take on like $13m to stay under. I entirely forgot about the extensions impacting payroll this year, based on the new payroll tab I should have checked they've got $13.25 and the Mets are eating half of Scherzers money so he's only $22.5 against the tax this year. Being wrong twice really worked out for me here and we can just divide the earlier numbers in half. Less of an advantage against other teams, O's might have a lot of interest as well. Ah I didn't realize the Mets were still covering a bunch of his salary. In that case I agree if the Rangers do decide to bail he's a good candidate. I'd love to root for Scherzer.
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Post by chaimtime on Jun 25, 2024 12:32:12 GMT -5
A lot of people have mentioned Seattle and Logan Gilbert. For as lousy as Settle's offense is and for as rich in hitting prospects as the Sox are, this seems like a really good matchup. I'm not sure if they could pull something off during the season since both teams are trying to compete this year, but for a guy with this season plus 3 more years of control I wouldn't be as concerned about overall cost. People do keep mentioning the idea of getting Seattle to trade away one of their very good starting pitchers, and I have never come close to understanding why Seattle would want to do that. No chance they move anyone at the deadline, but their established young core are all due big raises next year and their corner outfield situation is one of the worst in baseball. I don’t think Woo, Miller, or Kirby are at all available, but swapping Gilbert—who will be Arb2 next year—for a major upgrade in a corner with more years of control, plus a solid prospect return, seems very much in line with how DiPoto has run that team. But again, no chance any of them move during the season.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 12:43:04 GMT -5
Don’t threaten me with a good time, Jeff
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 25, 2024 12:52:33 GMT -5
Don’t threaten me with a good time, Jeff I wonder if we can pay extra to get them to eat Yoshida too
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 13:00:00 GMT -5
Alonso's pretty overrated. And if you're adding Alonso you're taking PAs away from O'Neill, Refsnyder, and Abreu, all of whom I'd rather play than Alonso if they have the handedness advantage, on top of making Yoshida worthless. No thanks.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 13:03:11 GMT -5
Don’t threaten me with a good time, Jeff I wonder if we can pay extra to get them to eat Yoshida too Yoshida and money + mild prospect capital for Alonso I don’t is think an insane starting point for either side - not that I’d be holding my breath on it to happen Alonso’s trade value is probably less than you’d think given his lack of versatility, only two months of control, and he’s dipped slightly as a hitter. But for our purposes, a playoff lineup that has Devers, Alonso, Casas, O’Neill etc while Duran and the speed guys are dancing on 1st base would be an absolute bitch to face (Again I don’t think this will happen - it would just be fun)
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 25, 2024 13:10:12 GMT -5
Id much much rather have Yoshida + Refsnyder platoon than Alonso at DH
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Post by seamus on Jun 25, 2024 13:12:44 GMT -5
Alonso's pretty overrated. And if you're adding Alonso you're taking PAs away from O'Neill, Refsnyder, and Abreu, all of whom I'd rather play than Alonso if they have the handedness advantage, on top of making Yoshida worthless. No thanks. Eh, he's definitely more "star because he's fun" than "star because he's great", but he's a reliable 125 OPS+/wRC+ with big power who doesn't actually strike out all that much. That being said, it would only really make sense for the Sox to trade for him if the y are concerned about Casas returning and being effective. If he's the everyday first baseman, that's probably an improvement.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 13:19:44 GMT -5
Alonso's pretty overrated. And if you're adding Alonso you're taking PAs away from O'Neill, Refsnyder, and Abreu, all of whom I'd rather play than Alonso if they have the handedness advantage, on top of making Yoshida worthless. No thanks. Eh, he's definitely more "star because he's fun" than "star because he's great", but he's a reliable 125 OPS+/wRC+ with big power who doesn't actually strike out all that much. That being said, it would only really make sense for the Sox to trade for him if the y are concerned about Casas returning and being effective. If he's the everyday first baseman, that's probably an improvement.Totally agree with that assessment, and totally don't think it's better than what they get from O'Neill, Refsnyder, and Abreu, even if one wants to give up on Yoshida entirely. I would take him over Dom Smith though, that is true!
(Poor Pete. I don't think he has any idea how small a contract he's going to get in free agency.)
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 13:28:37 GMT -5
Id much much rather have Yoshida + Refsnyder platoon than Alonso at DH I mean if Uncle Steve doesn’t care about the money you can have a better hitter (Alonso > Yoshida) and also have still have Rob Refsnyder, while getting off the Yoshida deal to use that money elsewhere - I’d take that exchange. I just don’t think the two teams would ever agree on money/prospects to ever make it work
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 25, 2024 13:36:46 GMT -5
Id much much rather have Yoshida + Refsnyder platoon than Alonso at DH I mean if Uncle Steve doesn’t care about the money you can have a better hitter (Alonso > Yoshida) and also have still have Rob Refsnyder, while getting off the Yoshida deal to use that money elsewhere - I’d take that exchange. I just don’t think the two teams would ever agree on money/prospects to ever make it work If you believe Alonso is a substantially better hitter against righties (and last year he ran a 118 wRC+ against them and Yoshida ran a 112, so I don't take this as a given) than Yoshida is then Yoshida is a huge negative asset which means the prospect the Red Sox would have to give up to get the Mets to eat the salary is going to be painful and I'd much prefer not to do that. You're probably going sideways offensively against righties. Against lefties by replacing Yoshida with Alonso you could sit one of Hamilton or Valdez and slide Rafaela to the infield, but then you've worsened your defense in the outfield and possibly the infield too. If you don't do this defensive shuffling then you're just replacing Refsnyder at DH with Alonso which I don't think is an upgrade at all. I just don't see how this swap would be worth the cost to make it happen.
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Post by strike23 on Jun 25, 2024 13:38:27 GMT -5
Outside of trades to make the major league team better now are there any teams that would line up well for some of our blocked AAA/soon to be 40 man crew in more of a prospect for prospect swap? Mayer needs a spot in AAA sooner rather than later and theres not enough AB to go around for him, Yorke, Sogard, Meidroth, and at least one of Hamilton/Valdez/Grissom/Romy.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 25, 2024 13:47:24 GMT -5
I mean if Uncle Steve doesn’t care about the money you can have a better hitter (Alonso > Yoshida) and also have still have Rob Refsnyder, while getting off the Yoshida deal to use that money elsewhere - I’d take that exchange. I just don’t think the two teams would ever agree on money/prospects to ever make it work If you believe Alonso is a substantially better hitter against righties (and last year he ran a 118 wRC+ against them and Yoshida ran a 112, so I don't take this as a given) than Yoshida is then Yoshida is a huge negative asset which means the prospect the Red Sox would have to give up to get the Mets to eat the salary is going to be painful and I'd much prefer not to do that. You're probably going sideways offensively against righties. Against lefties by replacing Yoshida with Alonso you could sit one of Hamilton or Valdez and slide Rafaela to the infield, but then you've worsened your defense in the outfield and possibly the infield too. If you don't do this defensive shuffling then you're just replacing Refsnyder at DH with Alonso which I don't think is an upgrade at all. I just don't see how this swap would be worth the cost to make it happen. What do you believe the cost will be? I can see a world in which it’s not all that exorbitant.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jun 25, 2024 13:47:53 GMT -5
A large percentage of the national sports media hate Boston teams. They don't even try to hide it. The Athletic has a similar trade deadline precursor article where they've identified the Red Sox top need as SS and SP. As everyone above as pointed out, unless its a star player, trading for MI doesn't make sense. Fixing the DH hole is the biggest room for improvement. I hope Yoshida starts to hit but with him off the roster the DH spot would change daily based on matchup and rest. Sure the Polar Bear would be nice there but the versatility would help. Don't necessarily agree with the bolded part. If it is as a short term fix for this season, and perhaps next one, you can start looking at small improvements that balance the roster better, and a RH SS might be it. In a ideal world it would be a great defensive SS with some wheels, who can come in as a PR or defensive replacement in a late and tight situation. More likely you're looking at a Willi Castro or Rengifo. And then let's reassess when Story returns.
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Post by strike23 on Jun 25, 2024 13:59:01 GMT -5
The Athletic has a similar trade deadline precursor article where they've identified the Red Sox top need as SS and SP. As everyone above as pointed out, unless its a star player, trading for MI doesn't make sense. Fixing the DH hole is the biggest room for improvement. I hope Yoshida starts to hit but with him off the roster the DH spot would change daily based on matchup and rest. Sure the Polar Bear would be nice there but the versatility would help. Don't necessarily agree with the bolded part. If it is as a short term fix for this season, and perhaps next one, you can start looking at small improvements that balance the roster better, and a RH SS might be it. In a ideal world it would be a great defensive SS with some wheels, who can come in as a PR or defensive replacement in a late and tight situation. More likely you're looking at a Willi Castro or Rengifo. And then let's reassess when Story returns. Isn't that just Romy? I don't see the Twins making Castro available and Romy has better underlying numbers/speed/D than Rengifo
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 25, 2024 13:59:44 GMT -5
I think it'd be pretty hard to get to Pete Alonso adding north of .5 WAR to the Red Sox if we traded for him. The Mets can offer him a QO so they're not going to accept table scraps in return, either.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 25, 2024 14:02:57 GMT -5
If you believe Alonso is a substantially better hitter against righties (and last year he ran a 118 wRC+ against them and Yoshida ran a 112, so I don't take this as a given) than Yoshida is then Yoshida is a huge negative asset which means the prospect the Red Sox would have to give up to get the Mets to eat the salary is going to be painful and I'd much prefer not to do that. You're probably going sideways offensively against righties. Against lefties by replacing Yoshida with Alonso you could sit one of Hamilton or Valdez and slide Rafaela to the infield, but then you've worsened your defense in the outfield and possibly the infield too. If you don't do this defensive shuffling then you're just replacing Refsnyder at DH with Alonso which I don't think is an upgrade at all. I just don't see how this swap would be worth the cost to make it happen. What do you believe the cost will be? I can see a world in which it’s not all that exorbitant. In the hypothetical where you think Alonso is a substantial improvement against righties it probably means you think Yoshida is only a league average hitter against them or worse. Which then means you’re talking about an asset that is at least $30m in negative value. That costs about a 50 level prospect to get off of. Someone else mentioned Bleis or Cespedes which seems reasonable but it could be even more than that. Plus whatever additional cost half a year of Alonso runs you. You’re definitely looking at a top 10 guy and another top 20 guy bare minimum IMO
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 25, 2024 14:06:27 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 14:11:19 GMT -5
What weird framing. He takes it as an indictment of ownership that the team is good, rather than a vindication; and he says that the owners are obligated to be buyers at the deadline, even though deadline activity doesn't really have anything to do with the supposed "cheapness" of the owners.
If only they had signed Jordan Montgomery to make the team worse, I guess they could have avoided this line of criticism...
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 25, 2024 14:17:12 GMT -5
What an absolute garbage quote to lead off by Rosenthal. "They were a team that seemingly does not want to try." Then saying "well guess what your team is better than you thought it was going to be." Well actually Ken maybe they are about as good as they thought they could be since they didn't go out and spend needless money on players this FA that probably wouldn't have made any meaningful difference. I usually don't mind Rosenthal but get out of here with that garbage.
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