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Post by seamus on Jun 25, 2024 14:19:34 GMT -5
You only trade for Alonso if you are worried about Casas producing for the last 2+ months of the season. Trading for him to be an everyday DH makes no sense given then rest of the lineup construction, but if you don't have to attach Yoshida's contract and you don't take away a spot in the batting order from the outfield corps, it's both more palatable and more helpful. I bet something like a top 20, a top 35, and maybe some lottery tickets could get it done, though that assumes that the Mets fade away from the playoff picture over the next few weeks.
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Post by geostorm on Jun 25, 2024 14:24:06 GMT -5
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Post by itinerantherb on Jun 25, 2024 14:25:12 GMT -5
Eh, he's definitely more "star because he's fun" than "star because he's great", but he's a reliable 125 OPS+/wRC+ with big power who doesn't actually strike out all that much. That being said, it would only really make sense for the Sox to trade for him if the y are concerned about Casas returning and being effective. If he's the everyday first baseman, that's probably an improvement.Totally agree with that assessment, and totally don't think it's better than what they get from O'Neill, Refsnyder, and Abreu, even if one wants to give up on Yoshida entirely. I would take him over Dom Smith though, that is true!
(Poor Pete. I don't think he has any idea how small a contract he's going to get in free agency.)
Poor Pete is 29 years old and has already made $43 million dollars. He'll be okay.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 14:29:25 GMT -5
What an absolute garbage quote to lead off by Rosenthal. "They were a team that seemingly does not want to try." Then saying "well guess what your team is better than you thought it was going to be." Well actually Ken maybe they are about as good as they thought they could be since they didn't go out and spend needless money on players this FA that probably wouldn't have made any meaningful difference. I usually don't mind Rosenthal but get out of here with that garbage. I wish Alex Speier or somebody could get Breslow drunk over the All-Star Break so we can get some actual insight into what the team was thinking and their actual expectations. Like we can give them props for how the team looks at the moment, but they also were almost set to enter the year with Tanner Houck in the bullpen, and were allegedly close to trading Duran to the Padres in spring training. The guy writing the checks and the guy making the personnel decisions either never talk or are never comprehendable when they do haha
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 14:31:14 GMT -5
Totally agree with that assessment, and totally don't think it's better than what they get from O'Neill, Refsnyder, and Abreu, even if one wants to give up on Yoshida entirely. I would take him over Dom Smith though, that is true!
(Poor Pete. I don't think he has any idea how small a contract he's going to get in free agency.)
Poor Pete is 29 years old and has already made $43 million dollars. He'll be okay. Oh not monetarily poor. But he turned down a $150 million extension offer and with a QO attached I wouldn't be surprised if he fails to crack $50 million as a free agent, and that's going to make him feel bad.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 25, 2024 14:33:09 GMT -5
Poor Pete is 29 years old and has already made $43 million dollars. He'll be okay. Oh not monetarily poor. But he turned down a $150 million extension offer and with a QO attached I wouldn't be surprised if he fails to crack $50 million as a free agent, and that's going to make him feel bad. In regards to Alonso, I wonder what the chances are he would accept the QO if/when the Mets offer it? He had to have seen what happened to the likes of Chapman and Bellinger and those two are premium defenders. Alonso is a butcher in the field and is a DH only guy at this point pretty much. Seems like there is a fair chance he might not even get offered what those two did if he has the QO attached.
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Post by bentossaurus on Jun 25, 2024 14:33:25 GMT -5
Don't necessarily agree with the bolded part. If it is as a short term fix for this season, and perhaps next one, you can start looking at small improvements that balance the roster better, and a RH SS might be it. In a ideal world it would be a great defensive SS with some wheels, who can come in as a PR or defensive replacement in a late and tight situation. More likely you're looking at a Willi Castro or Rengifo. And then let's reassess when Story returns. Isn't that just Romy? I don't see the Twins making Castro available and Romy has better underlying numbers/speed/D than Rengifo Your trust mileage on what Romy can do going forward may vary.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 25, 2024 14:39:42 GMT -5
What an absolute garbage quote to lead off by Rosenthal. "They were a team that seemingly does not want to try." Then saying "well guess what your team is better than you thought it was going to be." Well actually Ken maybe they are about as good as they thought they could be since they didn't go out and spend needless money on players this FA that probably wouldn't have made any meaningful difference. I usually don't mind Rosenthal but get out of here with that garbage. I wish Alex Speier or somebody could get Breslow drunk over the All-Star Break so we can get some actual insight into what the team was thinking and their actual expectations. Like we can give them props for how the team looks at the moment, but they also were almost set to enter the year with Tanner Houck in the bullpen, and were allegedly close to trading Duran to the Padres in spring training. The guy writing the checks and the guy making the personnel decisions either never talk or are never comprehendable when they do haha With the way Houck has thrown the ball all year I highly doubt he would have broke camp in the bullpen, was it an option if he hadn't looked as great as he has in the rotation? Probably. On Duran, that all seemed way overblown, the reports basically said that the Padres wanted a young cheap OFer and then writers threw Duran's name in there. It never sounded like anything more than due diligence.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 25, 2024 14:44:12 GMT -5
What an absolute garbage quote to lead off by Rosenthal. "They were a team that seemingly does not want to try." Then saying "well guess what your team is better than you thought it was going to be." Well actually Ken maybe they are about as good as they thought they could be since they didn't go out and spend needless money on players this FA that probably wouldn't have made any meaningful difference. I usually don't mind Rosenthal but get out of here with that garbage. I wish Alex Speier or somebody could get Breslow drunk over the All-Star Break so we can get some actual insight into what the team was thinking and their actual expectations. Like we can give them props for how the team looks at the moment, but they also were almost set to enter the year with Tanner Houck in the bullpen, and were allegedly close to trading Duran to the Padres in spring training. The guy writing the checks and the guy making the personnel decisions either never talk or are never comprehendable when they do haha I do miss that about Bloom: there was a nice direct line between what he said and what the team tried to do. With Dombrowski, too, there was never any real mystery. Breslow is a cipher.
But my guess is that when they went into the offseason, Yamamoto was going to be their big play, or maybe they wanted to do that trade for young controllable pitching they're always fantasizing about. When those options fell through there just weren't any big targets that made sense beyond Giolito. At that point I think they (like everyone else) basically expected to be a .500ish team. Then the injuries hit. And but then, too, like a half dozen guys hit their 95th percentile outcomes and now here they are.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 14:56:14 GMT -5
With the way Houck has thrown the ball all year I highly doubt he would have broke camp in the bullpen, was it an option if he hadn't looked as great as he has in the rotation? Probably. On Duran, that all seemed way overblown, the reports basically said that the Padres wanted a young cheap OFer and then writers threw Duran's name in there. It never sounded like anything more than due diligence. IIRC Carrabis had said on a Spring Training pod (don’t have the link) when the rumors on Duran/Padres were swirling there was a period where he said he was told to be ready for something to happen, but again who knows. My point was more that’s it’s hard to tell how much of this season has been by design. As opposed to the alternative of being like, “Wow, Rachel Phelps has been accused being a cheapskate for the Indians - but she and the front office clearly knew what they had in Rick Vaughn and Willy Mays Hays!”
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Post by puzzler on Jun 25, 2024 14:57:19 GMT -5
I wish Alex Speier or somebody could get Breslow drunk over the All-Star Break so we can get some actual insight into what the team was thinking and their actual expectations. Like we can give them props for how the team looks at the moment, but they also were almost set to enter the year with Tanner Houck in the bullpen, and were allegedly close to trading Duran to the Padres in spring training. The guy writing the checks and the guy making the personnel decisions either never talk or are never comprehendable when they do haha With the way Houck has thrown the ball all year I highly doubt he would have broke camp in the bullpen, was it an option if he hadn't looked as great as he has in the rotation? Probably. On Duran, that all seemed way overblown, the reports basically said that the Padres wanted a young cheap OFer and then writers threw Duran's name in there. It never sounded like anything more than due diligence. WADR - this is a bit of butt covering here. All the reports in spring training were that Whitlock was throwing bullets - specifically after the minor league camp game. Houck almost certainly would have started the season in the bullpen behind the other four plus the free agent signing of the day. In fact, there were a ton of people who said that it was not an issue for Houck to start the season in the bullpen. Let's not pretend otherwise.
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Post by strike23 on Jun 25, 2024 15:18:06 GMT -5
Isn't that just Romy? I don't see the Twins making Castro available and Romy has better underlying numbers/speed/D than Rengifo Your trust mileage on what Romy can do going forward may vary. I don't particularly trust it to begin with but I don't trust Rengifo either and I don't see many other options that are likely to be made available. All this to say I think the Sox are better holding Romy for no cost than paying for a replacement that offers the same upside we see now with a slightly longer track record while also potentially losing him.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 21:21:17 GMT -5
Alex Speier had an article today talking to Kenley about his desire to win in Boston: www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/25/sports/red-sox-kenley-jansen/?event=event25Obviously like everything discussed here, things will come down to where the Sox are in the standings. But I kinda wonder why we should assume the team can’t just like… resign Kenley next year? He’ll be 37, but it’s not like there isn’t a precedent of a Hall of Fame closer throwing almost exclusively cutters aging gracefully.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 25, 2024 21:24:37 GMT -5
If Kenley finishes the season the way he’s been pitching he might be a QO candidate honestly
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 21:27:38 GMT -5
If Kenley finishes the season the way he’s been pitching he might be a QO candidate honestly He declined one at the end of 2016, so would not be eligible. But like going year to year with him I don’t think would be insane. We’ll see where they’re at and what the offers are
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 25, 2024 21:29:50 GMT -5
If Kenley finishes the season the way he’s been pitching he might be a QO candidate honestly He declined one at the end of 2016, so would not be eligible. But like going year to year with him I don’t think would be insane. We’ll see where they’re at and what the offers are good catch forgot about that
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 25, 2024 22:18:25 GMT -5
Alex Speier had an article today talking to Kenley about his desire to win in Boston: www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/25/sports/red-sox-kenley-jansen/?event=event25Obviously like everything discussed here, things will come down to where the Sox are in the standings. But I kinda wonder why we should assume the team can’t just like… resign Kenley knext year? He’ll be 37, but it’s not like there isn’t a precedent of a Hall of Fame closer throwing almost exclusively cutters aging gracefully. They signed Hendriks with the plan of having him close next season. Assuming the Sox arent bringing back Kenley - cant see them spending 20 plus million on 2 mid 30s relievers who can both close. Hopefully they reallocate the money as part of free agent signing for a top notch starter.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jun 25, 2024 22:35:00 GMT -5
Alex Speier had an article today talking to Kenley about his desire to win in Boston: www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/25/sports/red-sox-kenley-jansen/?event=event25Obviously like everything discussed here, things will come down to where the Sox are in the standings. But I kinda wonder why we should assume the team can’t just like… resign Kenley knext year? He’ll be 37, but it’s not like there isn’t a precedent of a Hall of Fame closer throwing almost exclusively cutters aging gracefully. They signed Hendriks with the plan of having him close next season. Assuming the Sox arent bringing back Kenley - cant see them spending 20 plus million on 2 mid 30s relievers who can both close. Hopefully they reallocate the money as part of free agent signing for a top notch starter. Id say if Kenley is brought back, That Hendricks would slide into Martins spot. Less total $ to this year, where you pay all 3. Then martin and Pivettas $ either go to Pivetta or other pitcher. Regaurdless of how it goes i realy dont see the FO being in on any of the top starters.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 26, 2024 8:35:47 GMT -5
Alex Speier had an article today talking to Kenley about his desire to win in Boston: www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/25/sports/red-sox-kenley-jansen/?event=event25Obviously like everything discussed here, things will come down to where the Sox are in the standings. But I kinda wonder why we should assume the team can’t just like… resign Kenley knext year? He’ll be 37, but it’s not like there isn’t a precedent of a Hall of Fame closer throwing almost exclusively cutters aging gracefully. They signed Hendriks with the plan of having him close next season. Assuming the Sox arent bringing back Kenley - cant see them spending 20 plus million on 2 mid 30s relievers who can both close. Hopefully they reallocate the money as part of free agent signing for a top notch starter. With what Hendriks is being paid, he very easily could work in a setup/highest-leverage role. For context, he'll make less than what they're paying Martin this year.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 26, 2024 8:47:53 GMT -5
They signed Hendriks with the plan of having him close next season. Assuming the Sox arent bringing back Kenley - cant see them spending 20 plus million on 2 mid 30s relievers who can both close. Hopefully they reallocate the money as part of free agent signing for a top notch starter. With what Hendriks is being paid, he very easily could work in a setup/highest-leverage role. For context, he'll make less than what they're paying Martin this year. To add to this, I'm not even sure Kenley would be all that cost prohibitive. His original Sox deal was 2 years, 32 mil - I'd be hardpressed to imagine he's get that next year. You could bring him back on a one year deal, and we could have the same conversation about whether to trade him or not next year depending on where the team is. They signed Kenley to stabilize the bullpen and get saves after a PTSD-inducing 2022 bullpen, and he's largely done that. If that's all the two year deal amounts to (and they don't spin him off for another asset), that's still a success.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 26, 2024 8:52:41 GMT -5
They signed Hendriks with the plan of having him close next season. Assuming the Sox arent bringing back Kenley - cant see them spending 20 plus million on 2 mid 30s relievers who can both close. Hopefully they reallocate the money as part of free agent signing for a top notch starter. Id say if Kenley is brought back, That Hendricks would slide into Martins spot. Less total $ to this year, where you pay all 3. Then martin and Pivettas $ either go to Pivetta or other pitcher. Regaurdless of how it goes i realy dont see the FO being in on any of the top starters. I don't see Breslow and Co. paying Jansen to come back but let's just say for the sake of the argument that they do and I'll just say they re-up him for the same amount $16M. If that is the case then before taking into account arb they have roughly 44.75M coming off the books this offseason between Pivetta, Martin, O'Neill and Sale/Turner/Joely Rodriguez retained money. Pretty easily could go after a front of the line FA for something in the $30M ballpark and still have payroll commitments of less than they do for 2024, none the less the rise in LT. I get folks apprehension in regards to believing that the FO will go after front of the line pitching in FA but I personally believe that it will be something they go after heavy in the form of Burnes or Fried. I'm not counting Sasaki because I believe he has not played long enough in Japan to qualify as a straight FA and will be tied to the IFA rules and thus will be capped at what he can even be offered but I am sure they will be on him too.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 26, 2024 11:32:41 GMT -5
They signed Hendriks with the plan of having him close next season. Assuming the Sox arent bringing back Kenley - cant see them spending 20 plus million on 2 mid 30s relievers who can both close. Hopefully they reallocate the money as part of free agent signing for a top notch starter. With what Hendriks is being paid, he very easily could work in a setup/highest-leverage role. For context, he'll make less than what they're paying Martin this year. Just a question. Chris Martin has never been an established closer. Wouldnt a guy with the incredible track record that Hendriks has, sign with the intent of being the closer, rather than a set up man like Martin? I hope we get the chance to see Hendriks set up Kenley, that Hendriks is healthy and effective come August and Kenley is still wearing a Red Sox uniform, that the Sox were buyers rather than sellers. I just find it unlikely that Jansen is back next year and that they invest $16 million or even more to retain Jansen or get an established closer, which Hendriks has already been. I'd think theyd choose to allocate their money on a top notch starter and hopefully be in the chase for Burnes, Fried, or even Sasaki if he gets free agency.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 26, 2024 12:06:54 GMT -5
It's all just speculation on guys personalities, but I doubt Hendriks particularly cares whether he's in a defined closer role or not. At this point it doesn't affect his pay, and in fact he might get paid better (in 2026) if he dominates in the highest leverage moments rather than being used in the traditional 9th inning role.
And I don't think the Red Sox will feel forced to have a guy they define as the closer the way Jansen is.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 26, 2024 12:27:46 GMT -5
With what Hendriks is being paid, he very easily could work in a setup/highest-leverage role. For context, he'll make less than what they're paying Martin this year. Just a question. Chris Martin has never been an established closer. Wouldnt a guy with the incredible track record that Hendriks has, sign with the intent of being the closer, rather than a set up man like Martin? I hope we get the chance to see Hendriks set up Kenley, that Hendriks is healthy and effective come August and Kenley is still wearing a Red Sox uniform, that the Sox were buyers rather than sellers. I just find it unlikely that Jansen is back next year and that they invest $16 million or even more to retain Jansen or get an established closer, which Hendriks has already been. I'd think theyd choose to allocate their money on a top notch starter and hopefully be in the chase for Burnes, Fried, or even Sasaki if he gets free agency. BP hasn't been an issue this year and only Jansen, martin and Anderson will be FA. They haven't got enough places as is for relievers who deserve to be on a 26 man roster, add hendricks into the mix. Why give (if close) 16m to Jansen when 16m would be better spent towards.. Say piveta, or another mid rotation starter?
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 26, 2024 13:36:37 GMT -5
The Red Sox fanbase is so embarrassingly stupid these days it hurts
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