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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 7, 2024 22:01:06 GMT -5
It's mind-boggling to me why Breslow has quadrupled down on his "must pick a lane" stance. Is it because that’s supposedly why Bloom got canned? I think it’s about controlling fan perceptions, people think that’s why Bloom was fired and dislike it so he is trying to frame the approach he ends up taking as a clear decision. PR talk. Personally I hope he just makes opportunistic and good decisions rather than attaching to some rigid path, and I think he will.
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Post by keninten on Jul 7, 2024 22:43:08 GMT -5
Is it because that’s supposedly why Bloom got canned? I think it’s about controlling fan perceptions, people think that’s why Bloom was fired and dislike it so he is trying to frame the approach he ends up taking as a clear decision. PR talk. Personally I hope he just makes opportunistic and good decisions rather than attaching to some rigid path, and I think he will. This statement really says it all. I think the team as far as the lineup goes just needs a good backup catcher. They still have to find one at a cost that both sides agree on of course. I see too many posts thinking this is as simple as going to the grocery store and picking up what you need. Who knows if it will be a buyers or sellers market. The amount this team strikesout is a big concern, but would be hard to address.
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Post by rkarp on Jul 8, 2024 6:38:32 GMT -5
I could very easily be on board for 1.5 seasons of Eovaldi for some of the teams middle inf depth. Campbell, Cespedes, Meidroth, Yorke, Arias, Paulino, Romero. I would also add Lugo and Blaze to the list. Throw in Bobby D as maybe Tex thinks they can work with him.
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Post by nonothing on Jul 8, 2024 6:56:20 GMT -5
It feels like July is going to fly by. When you look ahead to August, after an off-day on 8/1, the Red Sox play 33 games in 34 days from 8/2 through 9/4 (which includes a double-header because of the suspended game vs Toronto.) If they don’t bring in more pitching depth by the deadline - one way or another - that staff is going to break This. And it is what happened last year, when they weren't worth investing in. But thr number of innings is the number of innings. Good or bad, our pitchers are human.
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Post by nonothing on Jul 8, 2024 6:58:30 GMT -5
Winckowski’s pitching line today would like a word. Always a great idea to base decisions on one start vs you know, actual talent. There will be no one available for cheap that would likely have much of an impact. You keep saying this. But we have enough prospects that it doesn't have to be "for cheap" to avoid beeing "too expensive" or "mortgaging the future."
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Post by nonothing on Jul 8, 2024 7:20:43 GMT -5
I could very easily be on board for 1.5 seasons of Eovaldi for some of the teams middle inf depth. Campbell, Cespedes, Meidroth, Yorke, Arias, Paulino, Romero. I would also add Lugo and Blaze to the list. Throw in Bobby D as maybe Tex thinks they can work with him. I am all for this, except Campbell. I would only trade Campbell for somebody younger/with more control. But as others have pointed out to me, the option appears to be a player option. So unless they can agree to vest it, it's only half a year. And that is different to think through. I would be willing to vest his option now and give him another vesting option if he makes it through end of year healthy. So if he gets the $20M next year and another year that vests if he makes it through 2024 healthy, I would tack on a year for 2026 (his age 36 season) that he gets between $10M minimum and $22.5M for 2026 depending on his 2025. That would guarantee him $30M for 2025 forward, with up to $42.5M available over 2 yrs if he is healthy. Why? Other teams will offer based on getting half a year. If we could get a winner and rotation stabilizer for the back half of this year, I would guarantee some money to Eovaldi given a young team moving forward to get him to make it worth it for us to give Texas a bit more than what we would give for only 3 mos of the guy. If he breaks entirely this year, we lose $30M over 25/26. It's affordable enough to not prevent us from signing a Fried or Burns if they want in the offseason-- but it also makes doing that less necessary depending on pitcher health across the board (though I would still go for an excellent lefty like Fried given our mix). But for this year, we could go for it with a playoff rotation of Houck, Eovaldi, Pivetta and Crawford. Maybe all righties, but that's a very solid playoff rotation with a chance to win every night. That's worth some middle infield depth, inc as high as Cepedes to me + Dalbec if they want him and/or Lugo -- or whiever in those sorts of 10-30 guys. We don't need to acquire bullpen help. How often can you say that going into a playoff race? Tyler O'Neill is the bat you usually go get -- but we already got him. Just thoughts.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 8, 2024 8:07:20 GMT -5
This statement really says it all. I think the team as far as the lineup goes just needs a good backup catcher. They still have to find one at a cost that both sides agree on of course. I see too many posts thinking this is as simple as going to the grocery store and picking up what you need. Who knows if it will be a buyers or sellers market. The amount this team strikesout is a big concern, but would be hard to address. Do they really need to trade for a better backup catcher than McGuire? McGuire is just fine as the backup C, I don't see much need to use assets to get someone better than him. Sure if one can be had for cheap but at the end of the day it's a backup C who is maybe going to play like 25% of the games or so?
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 8, 2024 8:38:29 GMT -5
I'm gonna be sooooo creative here, but especially if Martin's soreness remains, a starter and a decent reliever are always welcome reinforcements, especially to control for regressions and give more options in role alignment. That'd make me feel good about this team. Not seeing much needed on the position front; we're deep with ML-playable guys all around, which hasn't been the case the last few years.
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Post by trotman on Jul 8, 2024 9:34:53 GMT -5
With the large number of Rule 5 Eligible players later this year and not enough space for all the guys it would be prudent to move some of those players. I would expect a handful of those players get included in a deadline trade. Other posters have a much better grasp on who may be protected in the Rule 5 but that would be the pool I would look at. A few names rkarp mentioned that are Rule 5 Eligible later this year like Blaze Jordan, Yorke, or Paulino. Other names could be Binelas, Bonaci, Dobbins, Bastardo or Lugo. The best match would be a team who has projected 40 man space and doesn't mind quantity over quality.
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Post by Addam603 on Jul 8, 2024 9:40:24 GMT -5
With the large number of Rule 5 Eligible players later this year and not enough space for all the guys it would be prudent to move some of those players. I would expect a handful of those players get included in a deadline trade. Other posters have a much better grasp on who may be protected in the Rule 5 but that would be the pool I would look at. A few names rkarp mentioned that are Rule 5 Eligible later this year like Blaze Jordan, Yorke, or Paulino. Other names could be Binelas, Bonaci, Dobbins, Bastardo or Lugo. The best match would be a team who has projected 40 man space and doesn't mind quantity over quality. No team in the league is touching Bonaci with a 12 foot pole right now. Bastardo just had Tommy John. Binelas is 0% getting protected or taken. Lugo and Dobbins, maybe but unlikely. I don't think the Rule 5 dilemma is actually as bad as it could be.
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Post by okin15 on Jul 8, 2024 10:06:47 GMT -5
We're in a weird conundrum, where we have a surplus of MIF, but few are good/healthy/ready to lead the 2024 team on a deep playoff run. I'd argue the most valuable MIF for 2024 are probably Rafaella, Romy G, and Hamilton. But the most valuable total are Story, Kristian C, and Marcelo M, and maybe Grissom.
If we want to get better this year, we ought to trade from our area of depth. I'm assuming Kristian doesn't have much value yet. And Mayer should only go out the door for several cost-controlled years of a stud. So that means trading Story or Grissom, plus any lower-tier guys (Zantello, Meidroth, Yorke, Enmanuel V, etc.)
Essentially, can we use one of the injured guys to upgrade the 5th starter or the backups for first and second bases? It's a different way of "stealing" from the future, rather than trading top tier young prospects.
Giolito too, if there's any value there at all (or is it a player option, meaning it's irrelevant)?
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 8, 2024 10:08:20 GMT -5
The Rule 5 thing gets brought up a lot and perhaps rightfully so in some instances but chances are the guys who are Rule 5 eligible that actually have enough value to bring back any sort of decent return is maybe like 2-3 guys? Yorke, Jordan and Lugo maybe Dobbins could net something worthwhile back in a trade I feel like. Would a team want all three of them in one trade? Probably not.
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Post by patford on Jul 8, 2024 10:13:21 GMT -5
I could very easily be on board for 1.5 seasons of Eovaldi for some of the teams middle inf depth. Campbell, Cespedes, Meidroth, Yorke, Arias, Paulino, Romero. I would also add Lugo and Blaze to the list. Throw in Bobby D as maybe Tex thinks they can work with him. I am all for this, except Campbell. I would only trade Campbell for somebody younger/with more control. But as others have pointed out to me, the option appears to be a player option. So unless they can agree to vest it, it's only half a year. And that is different to think through. I would be willing to vest his option now and give him another vesting option if he makes it through end of year healthy. So if he gets the $20M next year and another year that vests if he makes it through 2024 healthy, I would tack on a year for 2026 (his age 36 season) that he gets between $10M minimum and $22.5M for 2026 depending on his 2025. That would guarantee him $30M for 2025 forward, with up to $42.5M available over 2 yrs if he is healthy. Why? Other teams will offer based on getting half a year. If we could get a winner and rotation stabilizer for the back half of this year, I would guarantee some money to Eovaldi given a young team moving forward to get him to make it worth it for us to give Texas a bit more than what we would give for only 3 mos of the guy. If he breaks entirely this year, we lose $30M over 25/26. It's affordable enough to not prevent us from signing a Fried or Burns if they want in the offseason-- but it also makes doing that less necessary depending on pitcher health across the board (though I would still go for an excellent lefty like Fried given our mix). But for this year, we could go for it with a playoff rotation of Houck, Eovaldi, Pivetta and Crawford. Maybe all righties, but that's a very solid playoff rotation with a chance to win every night. That's worth some middle infield depth, inc as high as Cepedes to me + Dalbec if they want him and/or Lugo -- or whiever in those sorts of 10-30 guys. We don't need to acquire bullpen help. How often can you say that going into a playoff race? Tyler O'Neill is the bat you usually go get -- but we already got him. Just thoughts. It would be a bad time to trade Yorke because his value is probably still depressed (as reflected in his fall in the rankings) and he shows signs of bouncing back in a big way. Cespedes and Arias are on the rise but so young it would be a huge gamble to trade them. Meidroth is an interesting case as he looks to be MLB ready with little to learn and plays 2B where the Sox have a need but he hasn't gotten a look. Said to be a very good defender, knows the strike zone, hits for average but has little or no power. Even if the Sox don't see him having a future now would have been the time to bring him up as he would fit at 2B for the time being and if he did something in MLB what he's doing at AAA it would at least build his trade value.
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Post by rkarp on Jul 8, 2024 12:04:51 GMT -5
I could very easily be on board for 1.5 seasons of Eovaldi for some of the teams middle inf depth. Campbell, Cespedes, Meidroth, Yorke, Arias, Paulino, Romero. I would also add Lugo and Blaze to the list. Throw in Bobby D as maybe Tex thinks they can work with him. I am all for this, except Campbell. I would only trade Campbell for somebody younger/with more control. But as others have pointed out to me, the option appears to be a player option. So unless they can agree to vest it, it's only half a year. And that is different to think through. I would be willing to vest his option now and give him another vesting option if he makes it through end of year healthy. So if he gets the $20M next year and another year that vests if he makes it through 2024 healthy, I would tack on a year for 2026 (his age 36 season) that he gets between $10M minimum and $22.5M for 2026 depending on his 2025. That would guarantee him $30M for 2025 forward, with up to $42.5M available over 2 yrs if he is healthy. Why? Other teams will offer based on getting half a year. If we could get a winner and rotation stabilizer for the back half of this year, I would guarantee some money to Eovaldi given a young team moving forward to get him to make it worth it for us to give Texas a bit more than what we would give for only 3 mos of the guy. If he breaks entirely this year, we lose $30M over 25/26. It's affordable enough to not prevent us from signing a Fried or Burns if they want in the offseason-- but it also makes doing that less necessary depending on pitcher health across the board (though I would still go for an excellent lefty like Fried given our mix). But for this year, we could go for it with a playoff rotation of Houck, Eovaldi, Pivetta and Crawford. Maybe all righties, but that's a very solid playoff rotation with a chance to win every night. That's worth some middle infield depth, inc as high as Cepedes to me + Dalbec if they want him and/or Lugo -- or whiever in those sorts of 10-30 guys. We don't need to acquire bullpen help. How often can you say that going into a playoff race? Tyler O'Neill is the bat you usually go get -- but we already got him. Just thoughts. understand the option issue, but my thought was that Eavoldi has been here before, had success here and apparently enjoyed his time here. he was also very close to coming back, so it was reported. also, would Cora (if he is back) and Bailey be the clincher? would his option be favorable for the RS seeing the RS team age, competitiveness and staff?
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Post by kwodes on Jul 8, 2024 12:31:20 GMT -5
To me, the ideal deadline would be Valdez for Justin Turner and get Flaherty from the Tigers. Maybe for Paulino and Meidroth or Yorke. Makes them better this year and also clears up some 40 man space long term.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 8, 2024 12:33:40 GMT -5
The Rule 5 thing gets brought up a lot and perhaps rightfully so in some instances but chances are the guys who are Rule 5 eligible that actually have enough value to bring back any sort of decent return is maybe like 2-3 guys? Yorke, Jordan and Lugo maybe Dobbins could net something worthwhile back in a trade I feel like. Would a team want all three of them in one trade? Probably not. Last year we traded a borderline Rule 5 protect pitching in A-Ball and got back a premium non-tender candidate. And I think most people were pretty impressed with that piece of business. If a guy's not a super obvious protect then their value is not gonna be much higher than that
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 8, 2024 14:24:42 GMT -5
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 8, 2024 14:28:36 GMT -5
I don't see Chisolm's potential impact/fit as exceeding the likely cost it will take to acquire him. He also hasn't played the IF since 2022.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 8, 2024 14:43:56 GMT -5
IIRC Chisholm was considered a good defensive shortstop, and he was great at 2B in the majors before he moved. It's tough asking him to just pick up the position seamlessly midseason, though it's not like their alternatives are great defenders. Not sure what he'd cost to acquire though, he also hasn't really ever played a full season. I doubt the Red Sox are the team that makes the most sense to be the high bidder on him.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 8, 2024 15:14:19 GMT -5
Does anyone have an inkling on Vaughn Grissom’s possible trade value? (I.e. whether his season from hell has degraded it at all.) In the short term it’s unclear he will be healthy enough or in rhythm enough to help you this year. And medium/long term he’s competing with Story/Mayer and Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc for middle infield spots.
For as much as the Sale-Grissom trade was about having Grissom for 5-6 years of control, there was an immediate need of a second base hole he was acquired to fill. Beyond this year…?
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Post by wanderingdude on Jul 8, 2024 15:17:58 GMT -5
Chisholm also feels like a pretty bad fit for Fenway offensively for what he would probably cost.
Side note: a new pet peeve of mine is every national writer yelling that the Red Sox have to buy (a fine opinion on its own) but not talking about *what* they should buy. I just hear pitching and a right handed bat but i don’t know where this bat is supposed to play and no one ever mentions who could actually be a target.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jul 8, 2024 15:22:32 GMT -5
National sports writing, like online “reporters”, have become the parroting class. Sad.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Jul 8, 2024 15:29:42 GMT -5
Does anyone have an inkling on Vaughn Grissom’s possible trade value? (I.e. whether his season from hell has degraded it at all.) In the short term it’s unclear he will be healthy enough or in rhythm enough to help you this year. And medium/long term he’s competing with Story/Mayer and Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc for middle infield spots. For as much as the Sale-Grissom trade was about having Grissom for 5-6 years of control, there was an immediate need of a second base hole he was acquired to fill. Beyond this year…? My guess is it's probably a bit less than $17 million. In all seriousness though I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear what the Sox internal conversations are for both Grissom and Yorke. I still think Yorke is a prime candidate for a trade, just don't know what that would look like.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jul 8, 2024 15:31:56 GMT -5
Does anyone have an inkling on Vaughn Grissom’s possible trade value? (I.e. whether his season from hell has degraded it at all.) In the short term it’s unclear he will be healthy enough or in rhythm enough to help you this year. And medium/long term he’s competing with Story/Mayer and Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc for middle infield spots. For as much as the Sale-Grissom trade was about having Grissom for 5-6 years of control, there was an immediate need of a second base hole he was acquired to fill. Beyond this year…? He's still a 23 year old right handed hitter with a long track record of hitting the hell out of the ball, only now his trade value is as low as it's ever been. Let him get healthy and hit a little before you trade him.
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Post by rkarp on Jul 8, 2024 15:37:01 GMT -5
Does anyone have an inkling on Vaughn Grissom’s possible trade value? (I.e. whether his season from hell has degraded it at all.) In the short term it’s unclear he will be healthy enough or in rhythm enough to help you this year. And medium/long term he’s competing with Story/Mayer and Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc for middle infield spots. For as much as the Sale-Grissom trade was about having Grissom for 5-6 years of control, there was an immediate need of a second base hole he was acquired to fill. Beyond this year…? He's still a 23 year old right handed hitter with a long track record of hitting the hell out of the ball, only now his trade value is as low as it's ever been. Let him get healthy and hit a little before you trade him. can't the same be said for Yorke? I still see Grissom as 2-3 weeks away from starting a rehab assignment, and given his lack of playing time this year, could run for a month (or longer). at best, he is a Sept 1 roster help
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