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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 8, 2024 19:12:16 GMT -5
Interesting in all of this who-do-we-give-up-for-player-X discussion, one name NEVER appears.
Meidroth.
I guess the guy is doomed to be the Rodney Dangerfield of prospects. He's having a fabulous year in AAA at age 22, the Sox obviously have no idea what to do with him, and presumably no one else sees much worth in him either.
Yeah, he doesn't look like a prototypical baseball player, and there are lots of differing opinions about how/whether his carrying tools will translate to MLB.
I remember last year at this time there was a raging discussion about how Rafaela's carrying tools would translate to MLB because of his lack of plate discipline. BUT he looks like a baseball player, so he got his shot.
Free Meidroth.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 8, 2024 19:23:47 GMT -5
Lugo and Jordan seems like a sensible enough trade for Eovaldi? I don’t love it but seems right value wise Hardly sensible for Texas. What do they get out of it? Jordan isnt going to dislodge Lowe at 1b or Jung at 3b when he's back (or even Jung's replacement who's playing well). Even though they have struggled Lugo isnt putting Carter Evan's or Adolis Garcia out if jobs. Best case they're bench pieces for Texas. They'll get a better offer for Eovaldi. If that was truly the way for the Sox to get Eovaldi I'd jump on it and not think twice. Lugo or Jordan or Meidroth, and somebody perhaps out of the 2nd tier among Campbell (I hope not), Cespedes or Bleis could go. Maybe Brannon, the catcher. I'd expect a #4 type starter though. It's tough, especially for a pitcher because the Sox don't have much young pitching to offer in a deal for a front of the rotation type. The Sox, with what they got, might match up better with the Tigers for Flaherty.
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Post by pawtucketwalt on Jul 8, 2024 19:44:16 GMT -5
Lugo and Jordan seems like a sensible enough trade for Eovaldi? I don’t love it but seems right value wise No way Texas sells that low for Evoladi. Their current offer probably starts with Bleis. What has Bleis ahown?
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Post by bentossaurus on Jul 8, 2024 19:58:23 GMT -5
Lugo and Jordan seems like a sensible enough trade for Eovaldi? I don’t love it but seems right value wise Hardly sensible for Texas. What do they get out of it? Jordan isnt going to dislodge Lowe at 1b or Jung at 3b when he's back (or even Jung's replacement who's playing well). Even though they have struggled Lugo isnt putting Carter Evan's or Adolis Garcia out if jobs. Best case they're bench pieces for Texas. They'll get a better offer for Eovaldi. If that was truly the way for the Sox to get Eovaldi I'd jump on it and not think twice. Lugo or Jordan or Meidroth, and somebody perhaps out of the 2nd tier among Campbell (I hope not), Cespedes or Bleis could go. Maybe Brannon, the catcher. I'd expect a #4 type starter though. It's tough, especially for a pitcher because the Sox don't have much young pitching to offer in a deal for a front of the rotation type. The Sox, with what they got, might match up better with the Tigers for Flaherty. For 2 months of Eovaldi? Pass.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Jul 8, 2024 20:16:57 GMT -5
He was also terrible there in 368 innings for Atlanta across 2022 and 2023 though I know the alternative to 2B for him is supposedly LF. Obviously if he hits the way he’s capable of that’s doable for either position, but with the Red Sox now or going forwards is he really playing LF over like Duran/O’Neill/acquisition X/Roman Anthony? I bring this up because it seems like the best place for Vaughn Grissom is a team that’s not super worried about winning right away so he can establish himself at a position and in the Majors - which was supposed to be the Red Sox. And then he got hurt and the team ended up better than the front office thought 😁 Where is he supposed to be play next year with Story coming back and Mayer is knocking on the doorI thought Grissom was insurance for Story more than anything. Not going to rehash this whole thing again, but I don't think enough people on this board fully appreciated what a make-or-break year this was for Story. His 2022 and 2023 were so poor that if he had a bad 2024 you can't count on him doing anything 2025+. Combine that with Yorke's struggles at the minor league level over the same time period and acquiring Grissom makes total sense to me.
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Post by wOBA Fett on Jul 8, 2024 20:28:01 GMT -5
No way Texas sells that low for Evoladi. Their current offer probably starts with Bleis. What has Bleis ahown? Seven figure international bonus with legit 5 tool potential who could turn into an All Star or never make it above AAA. If the Red Sox aren't willing to make that deal for a Mid-Rotation starter, someone else will.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 8, 2024 20:33:54 GMT -5
I know the alternative to 2B for him is supposedly LF. Obviously if he hits the way he’s capable of that’s doable for either position, but with the Red Sox now or going forwards is he really playing LF over like Duran/O’Neill/acquisition X/Roman Anthony? I bring this up because it seems like the best place for Vaughn Grissom is a team that’s not super worried about winning right away so he can establish himself at a position and in the Majors - which was supposed to be the Red Sox. And then he got hurt and the team ended up better than the front office thought 😁 Where is he supposed to be play next year with Story coming back and Mayer is knocking on the doorI thought Grissom was insurance for Story more than anything. Not going to rehash this whole thing again, but I don't think enough people on this board fully appreciated what a make-or-break year this was for Story. His 2022 and 2023 were so poor that if he had a bad 2024 you can't count on him doing anything 2025+. Combine that with Yorke's struggles at the minor league level over the same time period and acquiring Grissom makes total sense to me. My quibble with this is that they’ve had no plans (that we are aware of at least) to play Grissom at shortstop. Next year they could go into the season with Story as Plan A at SS, and if that doesn’t work out for whatever reason, you have Plan B Marcelo Mayer in Triple A, or Plan C… I guess going with Rafaela again? So sure, maybe you only end up with only one of Story/Mayer in the middle infield in a scenario where Story is broken or Mayer isn’t ready. But you also have Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc as options competing with Grissom for the 2nd base spot in that case. As many have suggested, Grissom’s value might not be at the highest at the moment - but absent injuries or positional changes there’s only so many spots for 2B at MLB and AAA for these dudes.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 8, 2024 20:41:22 GMT -5
Jordan Montgomery last year went for a borderline top 100 guy, plus a guy a half tier below that who ended up making some top 100 lists with a strong finish to the season. Jordan and Lugo ain't getting you Eovaldi.
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Post by finaliz3d on Jul 8, 2024 20:41:35 GMT -5
Not the most "exciting" thing per se, but what if you go after a package deal for Fedde/DeJong from Chicago? DeJong got traded for nothing last year, and Fedde shouldn't be that expensive either. Hamilton at 2B, Rafaela goes back to CF, O'Neill to DH kicking Yoshida to the bench, and Fedde slots in as your #3 or #4 on a hopeful playoff run.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jul 8, 2024 20:43:23 GMT -5
Lugo and Jordan seems like a sensible enough trade for Eovaldi? I don’t love it but seems right value wise No way Texas sells that low for Evoladi. Their current offer probably starts with Bleis. Then why didn’t we trade him in 22? It’s 2 months of eovaldi at an increased salary. The man is an FA no matter what, Texas really isn’t in a position to be asking for a ton here
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 8, 2024 20:58:51 GMT -5
I feel like we should examine every trade proposal this month with the mindset of asking if it will beat those offered by:
- a desperate Brian Cashman - Orioles and Dodgers teams that have loads of prospects to trade - AJ Preller doing 7000 kilos of cocaine
If there’s a package for Eovaldi that works that isn’t certifiably insane I will drive the kids to the airport myself - just not sure what that reasonably would be at the moment. Craig might have to get real creative with whoever they target
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 8, 2024 20:59:44 GMT -5
No way Texas sells that low for Evoladi. Their current offer probably starts with Bleis. Then why didn’t we trade him in 22? It’s 2 months of eovaldi at an increased salary. The man is an FA no matter what, Texas really isn’t in a position to be asking for a ton here It's not like the choice is trade Eovaldi to Boston for whatever the Sox will give them or hold onto Eovaldi. There are other teams in the wild card/division mix who could improve pitching. I don't think it's hard to imagine the value given up exceeding two players that don't help Texas much from some other team or the Sox having to put together a better package. They're not going to get Eovaldi even as a rental for 3rd tier prospects. Don't use the 2022 as the barometer of Eovaldi's worth. Bloom should have traded Eovaldi. He probably didn't for the same reason he didn't deal Xander - he probably thought he could sign them at some sort of discount - as it was Eovaldi signed at a figure lower than anticipated while Xander got the offer of a lifetime. And that 22 deadline along with the 23 deadline is one of the main reasons Bloom isn't here anymore.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Jul 8, 2024 21:13:06 GMT -5
I thought Grissom was insurance for Story more than anything. Not going to rehash this whole thing again, but I don't think enough people on this board fully appreciated what a make-or-break year this was for Story. His 2022 and 2023 were so poor that if he had a bad 2024 you can't count on him doing anything 2025+. Combine that with Yorke's struggles at the minor league level over the same time period and acquiring Grissom makes total sense to me. My quibble with this is that they’ve had no plans (that we are aware of at least) to play Grissom at shortstop. Next year they could go into the season with Story as Plan A at SS, and if that doesn’t work out for whatever reason, you have Plan B Marcelo Mayer in Triple A, or Plan C… I guess going with Rafaela again? So sure, maybe you only end up with only one of Story/Mayer in the middle infield in a scenario where Story is broken or Mayer isn’t ready. But you also have Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc as options competing with Grissom for the 2nd base spot in that case. As many have suggested, Grissom’s value might not be at the highest at the moment - but absent injuries or positional changes there’s only so many spots for 2B at MLB and AAA for these dudes. I assume plan A was always Mayer pushing Story to 2B sometime around 2025. Those timelines add up pretty nicely I think. With the injuries that Story has had though I think acquiring Grissom was a contingency plan for Story in the event that he wouldn't be able to stay healthy. These positional logjams always seem to work themselves out but if I had to guess, I think a year from now Mayer and Grissom are the primary middle infield, Yorke and Story are the odd men out.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 8, 2024 21:17:41 GMT -5
Hardly sensible for Texas. What do they get out of it? Jordan isnt going to dislodge Lowe at 1b or Jung at 3b when he's back (or even Jung's replacement who's playing well). Even though they have struggled Lugo isnt putting Carter Evan's or Adolis Garcia out if jobs. Best case they're bench pieces for Texas. They'll get a better offer for Eovaldi. If that was truly the way for the Sox to get Eovaldi I'd jump on it and not think twice. Lugo or Jordan or Meidroth, and somebody perhaps out of the 2nd tier among Campbell (I hope not), Cespedes or Bleis could go. Maybe Brannon, the catcher. I'd expect a #4 type starter though. It's tough, especially for a pitcher because the Sox don't have much young pitching to offer in a deal for a front of the rotation type. The Sox, with what they got, might match up better with the Tigers for Flaherty. For 2 months of Eovaldi? Pass. I wouldn't trade Campbell for Eovaldi, but I'd consider Bleis or maybe Cespedes. You're not going to get a guy like Eovaldi with his post season resume for some third tier prospect or two. You're going to have to give up somebody of value. At this point I think I believe in Campbell succeeding too much and being a part of their future to trade him. Cespedes, from what I've been reading, has defensive issues and there is some concern about his offense as he advances up the levels. Bleis has the tools, but will he have enough plate discipline and enough of a hit tool to be better than what a long termer like Rafaela in CF is going to be? I'd consider Bleis or Cespedes, but if it were possible to get a pitcher like Eovaldi or his ilk without giving up 1st or 2nd tier talent, then I'd jump on it. Ulimately, you have to figure Houck, Crawford, and Bello will be in the 2025 rotation. I'm hoping they spend money on Burnes, Sasaki, or Fried to head the rotation, and I figure Pivetta will walk and Giolito should be healthy enough to grab a spot and the Sox will be in a better position to trade for a starter come 2026.
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Post by patford on Jul 8, 2024 21:26:29 GMT -5
I feel like we should examine every trade proposal this month with the mindset of asking if it will beat those offered by: - a desperate Brian Cashman - Orioles and Dodgers teams that have loads of prospects to trade - AJ Preller doing 7000 kilos of cocaine If there’s a package for Eovaldi that works that isn’t certifiably insane I will drive the kids to the airport myself - just not sure what that reasonably would be at the moment. Craig might have to get real creative with whoever they target The fact is we know for a fact there are several other owners-G.M.s who suffer from drunken sailor syndrome. So in order to sign free agents or make trades that is the competition.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jul 8, 2024 21:32:53 GMT -5
I feel like we should examine every trade proposal this month with the mindset of asking if it will beat those offered by: - a desperate Brian Cashman - Orioles and Dodgers teams that have loads of prospects to trade - AJ Preller doing 7000 kilos of cocaine If there’s a package for Eovaldi that works that isn’t certifiably insane I will drive the kids to the airport myself - just not sure what that reasonably would be at the moment. Craig might have to get real creative with whoever they target The fact is we know for a fact there are several other owners-G.M.s who suffer from drunken sailor syndrome. So in order to sign free agents or make trades that is the competition. True, my guess is the orioles only part with their big specs for someone like Crochet Who knows what the Yankees do. Cashman is the most overrated thing on the planet. They really need lineup help, which is crazy considering they have Soto and Judge, but at the same time they cannot be comfortable with their pitching across the board at the moment
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 8, 2024 21:33:49 GMT -5
My quibble with this is that they’ve had no plans (that we are aware of at least) to play Grissom at shortstop. Next year they could go into the season with Story as Plan A at SS, and if that doesn’t work out for whatever reason, you have Plan B Marcelo Mayer in Triple A, or Plan C… I guess going with Rafaela again? So sure, maybe you only end up with only one of Story/Mayer in the middle infield in a scenario where Story is broken or Mayer isn’t ready. But you also have Hamilton/Valdez/Yorke/etc as options competing with Grissom for the 2nd base spot in that case. As many have suggested, Grissom’s value might not be at the highest at the moment - but absent injuries or positional changes there’s only so many spots for 2B at MLB and AAA for these dudes. I assume plan A was always Mayer pushing Story to 2B sometime around 2025. Those timelines add up pretty nicely I think. With the injuries that Story has had though I think acquiring Grissom was a contingency plan for Story in the event that he wouldn't be able to stay healthy. These positional logjams always seem to work themselves out but if I had to guess, I think a year from now Mayer and Grissom are the primary middle infield, Yorke and Story are the odd men out. I think they had hopes of Grissom being the long-term 2b. At the time, Devers was rapidly heading toward DH status, so Story could have shifted to 3b eventually with Grissom and Mayer up the middle. It was also not exactly a ringing endorsement for Nick Yorke as future 2b. The situation has changed a lot. Grissom was never himself. He has been injured, sick, and totally not himself. It was a total waste of a year for a guy who's still quite young. Story will be back, but it would be foolhardy to rely on him. He has been injured a lot the past few years. Devers (knock on wood) hasn't fielded like a DH. He's looked a lot better than anticipated (or at least what I thought). And now Kristian Campbell is having a monster year rocketing up the minors and with the outfield pretty crowded, 2b is his best avenue up to the majors. At this point I have no idea how it shakes out. I still think ultimately the Sox have to decide between Campbell and Grissom for 2b. My guess is Grissom gets first crack in 2025 with Campbell up in Worcester ready to pounce on his first opportunity. Story will start the season at SS, but who knows how long for? Eventually he could get injured or Grissom could or struggle and Story goes to 2b. At some point before the all-star break next year I'd think we'd see Mayer. At any rate the Sox have Hamilton, Valdez, Grissom, Yorke, Campbell, and even Story - six guys who are legit possibilities to start at 2b. The Sox have to sort this out and trade surplus. They have Story's contract so he's there but he'd probably be needed to man SS until Mayer is ready - who knows how long he stays healthy for? Hamilton has been a major spark plug but he is still probably best as a often used utility man. I'd say he increased his trade value. Valdez. Nice bat, but shoddy defensively. He might be a AAAA player or a guy who could get a crack on a bad team to be their every day 2b or even get some DH ABs. Easily trade bait. Yorke. Still think he can be a major leaguer but he might be Todd Walker lite, which means a potential 2nd division starting 2b, and trade bait. Grissom is certainly tradeable although his value is lower now that it would normally be, but if the guy is the hit machine he was in the minors and can be adequate at 2b, would you want to trade him or keep him for the next 5 years? Would Campbell continuing at his blistering pace impact the Grissom question? If the outfield is set for the foreseeable future with Duran in LF, Rafaela in CF, and Abreu/Refsnyder eventually giving way to Anthony, then the Sox wtill need a RH bat and the only spot that could be available is the DH spot, which is blocked by the expensive Yoshida who's LH bat isn't really needed in a lineup that's too LH. Maybe Campbell being able to play the OF or 2b allows for rotation among the other regulars and allows him to be a big RH bat if he does develop that way. There's not many RH mashers they can bring in to fit between Devers and Casas and it's not likely O'Neill is back, especially if Boras is his agent, so their need for an annual RH bat that went from Renfroe to Duvall to O'Neill could land internally with Campbell if he develops. Or he is amazing trade bait. They have a lot of decisions to make regarding their 2b near and not-so near future to make. This is where Breslow needs to sort out his talent, decide who is going to be the guy(s) they want to keep and who is expendable and get value for them before you're stuck with several 2b that amount to very little or are given away.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 8, 2024 22:15:53 GMT -5
Something funny in this Grissom/Story discussion is that Story’s injuries seem far less likely to recur than lingering pulled hamstrings
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 9, 2024 11:12:20 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 9, 2024 11:13:44 GMT -5
"Picking a lane" is definitely the result of a committee lmao
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Post by awalkinthepark on Jul 9, 2024 11:21:50 GMT -5
This is exactly why I would like to see this FO more aggressive this year than pretty much any other time during Bloom's tenure, even if the playoff odds aren't much better. This team is at the beginning of its contention window, that should have been apparent in the offseason. There has been so much turnover over the last 3-5 years that making huge splashes never made a ton of sense. But the roster we have now shouldn't turnover nearly as much over the next few years so Breslow shouldn't be afraid to aggressively upgrade it.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 9, 2024 11:24:05 GMT -5
This is exactly why I would like to see this FO more aggressive this year than pretty much any other time during Bloom's tenure, even if the playoff odds aren't much better. This team is at the beginning of its contention window, that should have been apparent in the offseason. There has been so much turnover over the last 3-5 years that making huge splashes never made a ton of sense. But the roster we have now shouldn't turnover nearly as much over the next few years so Breslow shouldn't be afraid to aggressively upgrade it. Funny, I interpreted that line exactly the opposite. If they are at the beginning of a window they should still prioritize future value (as in avoiding rentals). Overall though I think Breslow said approximately nothing in that entire sequence. A whole lot of words to basically say that they're going to see what the trade opportunities look like and decide from there.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 9, 2024 11:33:04 GMT -5
When I get my paycheck, I consider it wishy-washy to spend some of it and save some of it. Feels indecisive. Instead I pick a lane - either I spend every penny or I put it all in the bank. It's really the only sensible approach to weighing present value against future value.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 9, 2024 11:33:30 GMT -5
Buy a rental if the rental doesn't come at a massive cost, otherwise stay the course. I'm also not trying to get my hopes up that Henry will somehow decide to spend money in the next few weeks. I really believe they'll try to sell us on Casas and Hendricks being the deadline acquisitions. Even if this team falls down the mountain, you really have to appreciate what they've ended up achieving this year.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 9, 2024 11:34:43 GMT -5
Tucked in there is a bit of clarity: the "lane" they choose will be dictated by the team's performance on the field in the next few weeks.
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