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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 14, 2024 13:58:21 GMT -5
I mean in a world where someone asks Duran for luzardo or crochet I do it…. If that means not trading multiple high value prospects
Move pieces like Kavadas and Early for Christian Walker
I mean I’d be in for that, 5 positions to split at bats between Ton, Yoshida, Abreu, Rafaela, Casas, and Walker in that scenario.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 14, 2024 14:01:21 GMT -5
If someone was willing to give a Jackson Holliday level prospect for Duran, you pull the trigger for him and not think twice. If you can get a top 10-15 prospect for him, then the trigger needs to be pulled. Sure why take a top 10-15 player over a top 10-15 prospect? The prospect could even be a top 10-15 player one day! Nobody in any front office is considering Duran a top 10-15 player in the MLB, if they are you trade him immediately to that team
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 14, 2024 14:08:24 GMT -5
Sure why take a top 10-15 player over a top 10-15 prospect? The prospect could even be a top 10-15 player one day! Nobody in any front office is considering Duran a top 10-15 player in the MLB, if they are you trade him immediately to that team I love Duran, but it's a fallacy to think he could turn into Skenes or any top tier pitcher. That trade would be so lopsided we'd all be breaking out pitchforks. Plus.... look at who you'd be trying to deal with? Cherrington, a man who would stab his dying mother with a rusty saber and then defecate in her windpipe before he'd let a prospect go.
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Post by chaimtime on Jun 14, 2024 14:11:04 GMT -5
Why in the world would they sell Duran? The only reason I can conceive of is to make the ridiculously pessimistic win projections some fans had going into the year closer to reality. If someone was willing to give a Jackson Holliday level prospect for Duran, you pull the trigger for him and not think twice. ok sure. While we’re in fantasy land, if the Pirates would give us Paul Skenes for Kutter Crawford, we should do that too. I don’t really see the point of speculating about extremely lopsided trades.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 14, 2024 14:14:52 GMT -5
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 14, 2024 14:18:02 GMT -5
Best course, IMO is to offload the guys on expiring deals, (Jansen, O'Neil, Martin), thin some of the overabundance of MI depth we've accumulated both in the minors and majors (Valdez, Paulino, Yorke, Jordan) and try to retool from there both in the short and long term.
An OF of Duran (LF), Rafaela (CF), Abreu(RF) is pretty solid with Refsnyder being the 4th until Anthony and maybe Lugo are ready to contribute.
Hamilton seems capable of at least holding the fort @ SS until Mayer is ready, but we still have a month and some change to evaluate that. Grissom is a wildcard, but next year Story may be back, although I don't hold hope for a huge offensive production on his side. I think SS both short and long term are better addressed in the offseason anyways, with 2B being basically a big audition. At catcher, it wouldn't surprise me for them to start shopping McGwire.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 14, 2024 14:19:24 GMT -5
Sure why take a top 10-15 player over a top 10-15 prospect? The prospect could even be a top 10-15 player one day! Nobody in any front office is considering Duran a top 10-15 player in the MLB, if they are you trade him immediately to that team nobody in any front office who has been on sabbatical without internet access for the 2024 season* although I admit I was having fun with wording. Duran is a top 10-15 position player, not top 10-15 if you include pitchers and of course the top prospects list is a mix of both. The broader point is there is almost no prospect in baseball I think the team would consider trading Duran for in a straight swap, maybe something like 4 guys
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jun 14, 2024 14:20:59 GMT -5
If someone was willing to give a Jackson Holliday level prospect for Duran, you pull the trigger for him and not think twice. If you can get a top 10-15 prospect for him, then the trigger needs to be pulled. Sure why take a top 10-15 player over a top 10-15 prospect? The prospect could even be a top 10-15 player one day! By the time this core becomes viable he's going to get expensive.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 14, 2024 14:24:16 GMT -5
Out of all qualifying CFers in the MLB Duran is 2nd in fWAR. Behind Judge by a lot but Judge is an alien so let's just put him aside. It goes Judge 4.9 Duran 2.7 Varsho 2.1 and then Blake Perkins at 1.6.
So once again putting Judge aside, that is quite a bit more fWAR than the guy behind him and a full win above the guy two behind him. Why people want to trade a guy doing that who is cheap for the next 4 years is beyond me. That guy is the best player on the team right now for a team starved of high level impact players, the idea of trading that for some prospects is asinine to me.
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Post by chaimtime on Jun 14, 2024 14:42:38 GMT -5
Out of all qualifying CFers in the MLB Duran is 2nd in fWAR. Behind Judge by a lot but Judge is an alien so let's just put him aside. It goes Judge 4.9 Duran 2.7 Varsho 2.1 and then Blake Perkins at 1.6. So once again putting Judge aside, that is quite a bit more fWAR than the guy behind him and a full win above the guy two behind him. Why people want to trade a guy doing that who is cheap for the next 4 years is beyond me. That guy is the best player on the team right now for a team starved of high level impact players, the idea of trading that for some prospects is asinine to me. How could they possibly afford to pay a 4-WAR outfielder $8 million in 2026?? I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but based on the combo of username and obviously bad ideas offered I have a hard time feeling like I’m not getting trolled here. To get the conversation back to the trade deadline, as it stands right now, I’d guess that they make some small buys to shore up depth using some of the prospects who will soon be Rule 5 eligible. If they go on a hot streak, they might get more aggressive. If they go cold, they’ll probably sell. Pivetta seems like the only piece that will garner a prospect who would slot into the top 8-10, so if they aren’t willing to sell him to the highest bidder I don’t see much reason to sell off anyone else. Getting some 40s who slot into the top 25 doesn’t really move the needle in my eyes.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 14, 2024 14:54:35 GMT -5
Nobody in any front office is considering Duran a top 10-15 player in the MLB, if they are you trade him immediately to that team nobody in any front office who has been on sabbatical without internet access for the 2024 season* although I admit I was having fun with wording. Duran is a top 10-15 position player, not top 10-15 if you include pitchers and of course the top prospects list is a mix of both. The broader point is there is almost no prospect in baseball I think the team would consider trading Duran for in a straight swap, maybe something like 4 guys Yes if you were born on April 1st of 2024 then looked strictly at a WAR list you could claim that but that’s just removed from reality and context. First we all know damn well the defense of statistics could very well be an aberration which is very realistic given his career of negative defensive value 2nd we know his triples numbers this year are unsustainable which is making up a a fairly decent chunk of his Slg% Only guy I can really even find who had sustainable double digit triples for a stretch is Carl Crawford…. If that is who Duran compares to then we should trade him because after Crawfords age 29 season he fell off the wagon, crashed, and burned, then was run over by the wagon I’ve been a hater but not calling him a top 10-15 MLB hitter would hardly qualify me as one I’ll take all of Devers, Freeman, Tatis, Rutschman, Alvarez, William Contreras, and Jose Ramirez over Duran without much thought, all guys listed behind him He is having a great year but yeah if there are front offices valuing him as a top10-15 hitter than I’m trading him for a huge haul immediately
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 14, 2024 15:04:27 GMT -5
If you’re talking pure hitters then no, Duran is obviously not top 15.
If you are factoring in defense and base running then the argument starts to be doable.
I personally think moving him would be crazy and I would only do it for a clear superstar
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Post by chaimtime on Jun 14, 2024 15:49:53 GMT -5
nobody in any front office who has been on sabbatical without internet access for the 2024 season* although I admit I was having fun with wording. Duran is a top 10-15 position player, not top 10-15 if you include pitchers and of course the top prospects list is a mix of both. The broader point is there is almost no prospect in baseball I think the team would consider trading Duran for in a straight swap, maybe something like 4 guys Yes if you were born on April 1st of 2024 then looked strictly at a WAR list you could claim that but that’s just removed from reality and context. First we all know damn well the defense of statistics could very well be an aberration which is very realistic given his career of negative defensive value 2nd we know his triples numbers this year are unsustainable which is making up a a fairly decent chunk of his Slg% Only guy I can really even find who had sustainable double digit triples for a stretch is Carl Crawford…. If that is who Duran compares to then we should trade him because after Crawfords age 29 season he fell off the wagon, crashed, and burned, then was run over by the wagon I’ve been a hater but not calling him a top 10-15 MLB hitter would hardly qualify me as one I’ll take all of Devers, Freeman, Tatis, Rutschman, Alvarez, William Contreras, and Jose Ramirez over Duran without much thought, all guys listed behind him He is having a great year but yeah if there are front offices valuing him as a top10-15 hitter than I’m trading him for a huge haul immediately I dunno, just from watching the games it looks like he consistently hits the ball with authority, as he always has, while significantly improving both his plate discipline and his ability to elevate the baseball. He also is clearly much more comfortable in the outfield, and remains one of the fastest players in baseball. He’s not one of the top 15 hitters in baseball, but given that he’s a top-5 baserunner and at the very least a capable center fielder, I’d say he’s probably in the running for top-20 most valuable position players. Because he’s a Super 2 guy and a little older than you’d expect a pre-arb Super 2 player to be, I’d guess his trade value is probably lower than his actual value. If he were to be traded, I think it’s a lot more likely he gets traded as part of a package for a star rather than for prospects. And for what it’s worth, even though it’s not nearly as good as statcast data, based on their Fangraphs soft/med/hard hit percentages, Duran hits the ball much harder than Crawford did. And his walk rate this year is a full percentage point higher than Crawford’s career high, and his 6.8% career walk rate is a full 1.5 percentage points higher than Crawford’s. I think there’s good reason to be bullish. Either way, I highly, highly doubt that he gets moved this deadline so there isn’t much point to discussing him much further in this thread.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jun 15, 2024 10:46:28 GMT -5
Yeah - and honestly even if were you offered a charcuterie board of meh for a really good pitcher with control, you’d probably have the other team saying to you, “Thanks for the offer, but AJ Preller is on the other line snorting cocaine.” I’m inclined to think a rental starter (or a merely an okay starter with an extra year or so of control) is attainable - but I don’t know enough about how other teams view that upper-middle portion of our farm system. I am very bad at projecting trades, I can't even count the amount of times a trade happened and my thought was they gave up that much for him or on the flipside they traded him for just that? Trades are just difficult to project and are dependent on how the other team view the Sox players and vice versa which obviously we are not even close to privy to that info. I agree it shouldn't be all that hard for them to acquire a backend rental or even a guy with 1.5 years of control left but who knows things get wacky at the deadline sometimes. I think we’re forgetting that the White Sox are run by a 12 year old, so I can imagine a package that nets you Crochet without giving up one of the big 3. Maybe selling high on Campbell as much as it pains me?
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Post by costpet on Jun 15, 2024 11:53:54 GMT -5
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again…how goes Duran, how goes the team. He’s the spark at the top of the lineup. He turns singles into doubles, doubles into triples and scores with any kind of hit behind him. Why would anyone ever think of trading him? He even has a chance to make the All Star team this year. I personally would give him our MVP this year.
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Post by badballhitter on Jun 15, 2024 12:29:27 GMT -5
Kinda feel like the Sox should be buyers. The wild card spots are currently held by Baltimore, Minnesota, and Kansas City. I don't expect them to catch the Orioles, but the other two seem beatable. Not exactly scared of the teams directly behind them either.
Things can change quickly, but right now for as frustrating as the team has been they're not in terrible shape.
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Post by costpet on Jun 15, 2024 12:58:32 GMT -5
Last year they got hot in June and we got all excited. Then came July and took a dive. Then we expected to sell, sell, sell. What happened? Nothing. Crickets.Bloom was on vacation or something. Forgot about the deadline. Now we pay for that. He got fired.
What happens at the deadline is determined by what happens between now and then. Or like last year, maybe not.
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Post by rhswanzey on Jun 15, 2024 13:12:33 GMT -5
It’s arguably preferable to be the sixth seed (@sea) than 4 or 5 (@kc or @bal) if the season ended today.
Hindsight is 20/20 but that 2023 team really could have used even just a #5/#6 starter and a low lev RH RP. There are plenty of potential buy moves that aren’t going to move the needle much one way or another, like whatever Ryan Yarborough would have cost, or trading Nick Northcut for a Tommy Pham rental in 2022. That’s also probably the case for many of the sell moves available to us.
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Post by ctdiehard on Jun 15, 2024 16:40:02 GMT -5
Passan on ESPN+ has a way-too-early assessment of buyers and sellers, along with who might be available. He's got the Sox listed as a "hinge team," with Pivetta among those who could move. What strikes me as fascinating is the number of young pitchers leaguewide who he says could be moved - namely Crochet, Luzardo and the slim possibility of Mason Miller. If pitching is the goal for the Breslow administration, a lateral strike for the future might be in play - not quite the move to push you into contention this year but rather to prime the pump for a young guns run over the next few seasons.
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Post by ctdiehard on Jun 15, 2024 16:43:02 GMT -5
Passan on ESPN+ has a way-too-early assessment of buyers and sellers, along with who might be available. He's got the Sox listed as a "hinge team," with Pivetta among those who could move. What strikes me as fascinating is the number of young pitchers leaguewide who he says could be moved - namely Crochet, Luzardo and the slim possibility of Mason Miller. If pitching is the goal for the Breslow administration, a lateral strike for the future might be in play - not quite the move to push you into contention this year but rather to prime the pump for a young guns run over the next few seasons. I would like to see Breslow trade Jansen, Martin, O’Neill, and McGuire for prospects. Current players have taken huge steps during the last year; Duran, Wong, Hamilton, Houck, and even Devers. The players have developed at the major league level. It almost seems that the jump from triple A to the majors requires development in the majors. Breslow needs to bring up the best prospects and let them develop. Teel needs to work with Varitek and Bailey. Breslow needs to extend Pivetta as he takes the ball on a regular basis.
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Post by oleary25 on Jun 15, 2024 17:39:46 GMT -5
I say trade Pivetta and get a high end prospect . You can always resign him in free agency nothing attached to him.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 15, 2024 17:54:11 GMT -5
Imo they’re better off identifying an underappreciated pitcher and paying a little extra to get him than they are giving up a bunch of great assets for a true “ace”. The list of aces fluctuates by year these days, an ace one year is often on the IL or not pitching at an ace level the next
So find the next ace, not a current one
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Post by pawtucketwalt on Jun 15, 2024 19:00:44 GMT -5
Need to cut ties with Yoshida. When Abreu comes back its time.
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Post by nonothing on Jun 15, 2024 19:50:27 GMT -5
Nobody in any front office is considering Duran a top 10-15 player in the MLB, if they are you trade him immediately to that team I love Duran, but it's a fallacy to think he could turn into Skenes or any top tier pitcher. That trade would be so lopsided we'd all be breaking out pitchforks. Plus.... look at who you'd be trying to deal with? Cherrington, a man who would stab his dying mother with a rusty saber and then defecate in her windpipe before he'd let a prospect go. I cannot imagine what it would take to make somebody write what you just wrote about Ben Cherington. It's bad enough to have a thought like that, but it should be clear that writing it on a public forum is not okay.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jun 15, 2024 20:03:27 GMT -5
nonothing knows something. Knows better.
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