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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 19, 2024 11:44:40 GMT -5
Crochet is obviously more of a wild card because the track record is much shorter but I can't imagine the White Sox accepting a package worse than the Reds got. The more I read about Crochet, the more I feel like the White Sox have some insights that lead them to want to move on before he absolutely implodes. No other reason to move on from a guy like that otherwise. I don't know that they need special insight. It could just be bad health record = risky future bet, his value might never be higher, they aren't going to be good while he's under control anyways, get what you can now.
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Post by kwodes on Jul 19, 2024 11:52:16 GMT -5
Swap one of Teel or Anthony for Cespedes and honestly I’d probably be fine with it. I'd probably do that as well. Which would you rather give up: anthony or teel?
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 19, 2024 11:56:26 GMT -5
Swap one of Teel or Anthony for Cespedes and honestly I’d probably be fine with it. I'd probably do that as well. Which would you rather give up: anthony or teel? To me Teel and it's not all that close. I just think Anthony is on a whole different level in terms of prospects than Teel. I like Teel a lot but to me he seems more likely to be just an average C which would be awesome don't get me wrong but Anthony seems to have a whole different level to his potential. That's just one guys semi informed position though.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jul 19, 2024 12:05:51 GMT -5
How baseball mirrors society is amazing sometimes. "WE WANT CHANGE!" What Change? "WE DON'T KNOW!"
I don't think I'd give up Teel or Anthony for anything. I could be persuaded to give up Abreu, Wilk, York, Cespades (who has less value now that he is down for the year) Fitts, Sandlin, Lugo, or Jordan, and maybe, maybe Bleis for the right deal.
Those are the guys in my trade stable right now. I'd probably hold onto O'Neil, but I'd reduce his playing time a bit, even though he is gone next year, we're so LH his presence even when he doesn't hit helps.
Skubal though is not the get I'm giving that much up for. Had a fine year, but has also been bitten by the IL bug enough times that he can't be relied on. Crochet is in his first year as a viable starter. If we're talking giving up this high upside talent, I'd almost rather they trade for a real stud not yet in the majors who is a pitcher who shows durability.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jul 19, 2024 12:09:25 GMT -5
Swap one of Teel or Anthony for Cespedes and honestly I’d probably be fine with it. I'd probably do that as well. Which would you rather give up: anthony or teel? I was thinking about that and it’s tough, but I’d probably lean Anthony. I think his ceiling is much higher and I think he’s a better prospect in a vacuum but the floor is also probably a little lower and the Red Sox have a ton of other viable corner OF options but at the major league level and in the minors, so I think trading from a surplus is a good tiebreaker.
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chaimtime
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Post by chaimtime on Jul 19, 2024 12:22:10 GMT -5
Crazy stat I read on Crochet today: since he graduated from high school, he has started 33 competitive baseball games. I’ve seen some write-ups say he started 11 as a freshman, but every college stats website I can find says he started 6. Then 6 more as a sophomore, 1 as a junior, and then fast forward 4 years to get to 20 this year.
The fact that he’s managed to be one of the elite starting pitchers in all of baseball this year with 13 starts under his belt since he turned 18—none of them professional—speaks to just how exceptional his stuff is. But man, I just can’t get comfortable with trading top, top prospects for a guy with such a light track record. Count me out on him, a veteran rental makes way more sense to me. If you want to trade for an ace, try again in the offseason.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jul 19, 2024 13:10:36 GMT -5
Cotts has the Sox at 18.9$ under the cap. This might be the biggest tool the Sox have going into the trade deadline. When you consider salaries are prorated and only worth about 1/3 of the total $, the team can take on almost 60M$ of salaries and still be under the cap. If the FO allows CB to spend this money how he uses it will be a big key to adding talent without giving up prospects.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 19, 2024 13:21:53 GMT -5
Cotts has the Sox at 18.9$ under the cap. This might be the biggest tool the Sox have going into the trade deadline. When you consider salaries are prorated and only worth about 1/3 of the total $, the team can take on almost 60M$ of salaries and still be under the cap. If the FO allows CB to spend this money how he uses it will be a big key to adding talent without giving up prospects. Should be able to Turner for scraps if we pay last 1/3 of his salary. No idea what we do about pitching. I thought Efflin a few weeks ago. Maybe Eovaldi, if Rangers start out 2nd half slow.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 19, 2024 13:31:20 GMT -5
The Jays are about 10-15M over the LT. With prorating it's going to be hard for them to get under but not impossible. I'd take kikuchi off their hands. Not particularly interested in turner.
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Post by patford on Jul 19, 2024 13:58:45 GMT -5
Crochet is obviously more of a wild card because the track record is much shorter but I can't imagine the White Sox accepting a package worse than the Reds got. The more I read about Crochet, the more I feel like the White Sox have some insights that lead them to want to move on before he absolutely implodes. No other reason to move on from a guy like that otherwise. I Googled "Shiny Object" and there was a picture of Crochet.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 19, 2024 15:36:22 GMT -5
Lou Merloni was on “Off the Pike” with Brian Barrett yesterday. He was making the point that Breslow, Bailey and the pitching crew have as their mantra preaching “nasty stuff in the zone,” and was skeptical they would be attracted to a pitch to contact guy like a Zach Eflin or Taillon.
I was curious and did a bit of a deep dive. TLDR version- the possible trade market guys who might fit that criteria (guys who are above league average in K rate, whiff rate, and in-zone swing&miss) include: Crochet, Flaherty, Snell, Eovaldi, Kikuchi, and… Andrew Heaney?
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If you are interested in diving in further, here ya go. Apologies for the ugly formatting issues
Trade targets sorted by xERA:
PITCHER / xERA / K rate / whiff Rate. /In-zone swing and miss Crochet 2.44. 35% 32.8% 25.4% Jack Flaherty 2.91 32% 33.3% 22.7% Zach Eflin 3.24 18.9% 20.6% 13.7% Erick Fedde 3.58 21.6% 22% 16% Blake Snell 3.58 26.6%. 32.4% 20.4% Taillon 3.71. 19.6% 19.4% 12.2% Nate Eovaldi 3.77 24.5%. 27.8% 19.5% Heaney 3.93 23.7%. 27.3% 18.2% Yusei Kikuchi 4.07 26% 28% 20.7% Chris Bassitt 4.24 21.3%. 20.2% 17.2% Anderson 4.42 16.8% 25.8% 20.2% Cal Quantril 4.48. 18% 22.3% 17.2% Lorenzen 4.82 17.4%. 21.8% 16.9% Montas 4.85 21.8% 23.5% 16%
League Average K rate: 22.3% Whiff Rate: 25.1% In-zone swing and miss: 17.8%
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Post by azblue on Jul 19, 2024 20:06:24 GMT -5
Ok so, this a theoretical list of who I think would be available and makes practical sense as far as value and need if the Rangers and DBacks fall out of contention in a week (also cause I’m immensely bored without baseball games right now): RH 1B & OF: Mark Canha, Tigers 1B/COF Luis Robert Jr., White Sox, OF Adolis Garcia, Rangers, OF Christian Walker, Diamondbacks, 1B SP: Zach Eflin, Rays Eric Fedde, White Sox Jameson Taillon, Cubs Nathan Eovaldi, Rangers Michael Lorenzen, Rangers Reid Detmers, Angels Who’s on the trading block (more like who I’m ok with trading in particular scenarios): HEADLINERS: Wilyer Abreu Nick Yorke Khristian Campbell Yep, let's get rid of that Campbell bum: Campbell was drafted in the fourth round last year out of Georgia Tech, Campbell advanced quickly to Double-A this season, where he had a .407 average and .507 on-base percentage at midseason. Overall, he hit .351/.458/.589 with 12 home runs and 10 stolen bases in 72 games. This is the time of year that I give thanks that we have a GM with a 140+ IQ instead of keyboard jockeys.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 19, 2024 20:21:34 GMT -5
Ok so, this a theoretical list of who I think would be available and makes practical sense as far as value and need if the Rangers and DBacks fall out of contention in a week (also cause I’m immensely bored without baseball games right now): RH 1B & OF: Mark Canha, Tigers 1B/COF Luis Robert Jr., White Sox, OF Adolis Garcia, Rangers, OF Christian Walker, Diamondbacks, 1B SP: Zach Eflin, Rays Eric Fedde, White Sox Jameson Taillon, Cubs Nathan Eovaldi, Rangers Michael Lorenzen, Rangers Reid Detmers, Angels Who’s on the trading block (more like who I’m ok with trading in particular scenarios): HEADLINERS: Wilyer Abreu Nick Yorke Khristian Campbell Yep, let's get rid of that Campbell bum: Campbell was drafted in the fourth round last year out of Georgia Tech, Campbell advanced quickly to Double-A this season, where he had a .407 average and .507 on-base percentage at midseason. Overall, he hit .351/.458/.589 with 12 home runs and 10 stolen bases in 72 games. This is the time of year that I give thanks that we have a GM with a 140+ IQ instead of keyboard jockeys. Yes, let's trade him, his value will never be higher....unless he becomes a major league all star caliber player, lol
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Post by bluechip on Jul 19, 2024 20:22:30 GMT -5
Red Sox need a right handed hitter to aid in the problems they’ve faced against lefties. If only there was a cost controlled option eating up pitching in the high minors…
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jul 20, 2024 9:02:16 GMT -5
I think the Red Sox have to target Turner and it should be an easy get. Let's face it, Casas is lost for the year, by the time he is actually cleared to even have a rehab he *might* and it's a strong might, make it for some games in September. There are no guarantees either that he doesn't come back and then re-aggravate this injury.
They need a RH platoon partner for Dom who despite what some on here have said has done a pretty good job holding down the fort. As for 2B and SS, I do think they have enough misfit parts in the minors to mix and match there. The same with the OF, even though Abreau has been drawing my ire lately with his all or nothing plate approach, especially last night where he swung through 3 pitches (two of them were not strikes) in his first at bat like he can't even see the ball.
It's maddening to get men in scoring position with less than 2 outs and know that there is a good chance they are going to squander it.
After that, my focus is still on the rotation. Until Bello proves he's turned a corner and can string together 4-5 good starts, I will be suspect of him. Maybe an additional LH reliever who can throw darts would help. What happened last night with Bernie was an anomaly, but what happened before that inning was really the reason they lost that game. They should have scored way more runs than they did, and because they left men on base, karma got them.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 20, 2024 9:07:09 GMT -5
Justin Turner has a 99 wRC+, -0.1 fWAR, and is 39 years old.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 20, 2024 9:08:27 GMT -5
I'm not understanding the turner interest. Maybe if Casas has a setback but if not I don't see who Turner plays over. Yoshida/Ref DH combo is better than what turner would provide at DH.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 20, 2024 9:23:11 GMT -5
Justin Turner has a 99 wRC+, -0.1 fWAR, and is 39 years old. I suspect he'll wind up with a wRC+ around 105 - 110 when all is said and done. Either way it's likely higher than what Dom Smith will wind up at. Turner's name is mentioned because he played well here, is a RH bat and lonely cheap to acquire. He's an obvious candidate but I doubt the only one. 1b is an obvious area they can upgrade. At this point average would be a nice upgrade. There's no real timetable for Casas' return. At this point I cant see him back prior to September and if he has sone sort of setback we might not see him at all. The Sox might have to proceed like he wont be back.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 20, 2024 9:35:40 GMT -5
Justin Turner has a 99 wRC+, -0.1 fWAR, and is 39 years old. Justin Turner vs R: 90 wRC+ Justin Turner vs L: 130 wRC+ Insofar as Yoshida is slashing .136/.191/.273 against lefties and Casas/Grissom are still rehabbing, there would be room for a guy like that at 1B/DH. Refsnyder is typically in the OF vs lefties, no?
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 20, 2024 9:47:36 GMT -5
I’d rather have Grissom on the roster than Turner and it’s really a choice between the two as long as everyone else stays healthy
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 20, 2024 9:48:36 GMT -5
The most exciting part about Turner is the lotto ticket prospect attached to him you'd get as a bonus for taking his salary and getting the Blue Jays under the luxury tax
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 20, 2024 9:51:09 GMT -5
I'm kind of amazed at how this thread never has links to articles or tweets. There's almost no reporting on the trade deadline anymore. Nobody even strategically leaks anything.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 20, 2024 9:59:50 GMT -5
I’d rather have Grissom on the roster than Turner and it’s really a choice between the two as long as everyone else stays healthy Would agree with this. If Casas and Grissom were both healthy you probably don’t really need a position player move with Dom Smith -> Casas and Westbrook -> Grissom (unless you really want to upgrade on Romy Gonzalez). The issue is I just don’t think you can bank on them right now. Casas is “far off” from a rehab assignment and Grissom while about to start his has been injured with lower body injuries over and over since the winter, and hasn’t played well when healthy. If the cost of a Justin Turner or Mark Cahna or what not is basically minimal… why not just do it
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 20, 2024 10:07:19 GMT -5
I’d rather have Grissom on the roster than Turner and it’s really a choice between the two as long as everyone else stays healthy Would agree with this. If Casas and Grissom were both healthy you probably don’t really need a position player move with Dom Smith -> Casas and Westbrook -> Grissom (unless you really want to upgrade on Romy Gonzalez). The issue is I just don’t think you can bank on them right now. Casas is “far off” from a rehab assignment and Grissom while about to start his has been injured with lower body injuries over and over since the winter, and hasn’t played well when healthy. If the cost of a Justin Turner or Mark Cahna or what not is basically minimal… why not just do it I think because they don’t want to acquire Justin Turner to DFA him in three weeks when they want to call Grissom up. They could DFA Smith instead but I don’t know that they’d want to rely on Turner as the primary 1B Canha is more interesting to me but still has some of the same challenges
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 20, 2024 10:14:01 GMT -5
Would agree with this. If Casas and Grissom were both healthy you probably don’t really need a position player move with Dom Smith -> Casas and Westbrook -> Grissom (unless you really want to upgrade on Romy Gonzalez). The issue is I just don’t think you can bank on them right now. Casas is “far off” from a rehab assignment and Grissom while about to start his has been injured with lower body injuries over and over since the winter, and hasn’t played well when healthy. If the cost of a Justin Turner or Mark Cahna or what not is basically minimal… why not just do it I think because they don’t want to acquire Justin Turner to DFA him in three weeks when they want to call Grissom up. They could DFA Smith instead but I don’t know that they’d want to rely on Turner as the primary 1B Canha is more interesting to me but still has some of the same challenges I mean Romy still has a minor league option - could send him down if Grissom is healthy and back up when the rosters expand to 28. There’s ways around it in the best case scenario where every one is back and healthy and no one else goes down
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