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Post by incandenza on Jul 22, 2024 17:07:12 GMT -5
Rengifo is a bad defensive second baseman with a career wRC+ of 96 (higher the last couple years but with a big wOBA-xwOBA gap). I'd rather just hope on Grissom.
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finaliz3d
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Post by finaliz3d on Jul 22, 2024 17:34:48 GMT -5
if we're getting a middle infield righty, i'd rather get someone who can play a decent shortstop, though, this is honestly a low priority compared to starting pitching and reliever help. to me the priority goes:
Starting Pitcher > Relief Pitcher > First Base > Middle Infielder.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 22, 2024 17:40:58 GMT -5
The thought of adding yet another mediocre infielder that can't play SS to the 2024 and 2025 rosters fills me with despair
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 22, 2024 17:53:01 GMT -5
“U up?” - Craig Breslow to Jed Hoyer at approximately 2:13 am ET tomorrow morning
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 22, 2024 18:13:58 GMT -5
Pay no attention to what’s behind that curtain!
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Post by redsoxpride34 on Jul 22, 2024 18:15:46 GMT -5
No interest in Paxton as he just isn't what this team needs. There's no point wasting tax space on a pitcher who's just another older back-end guy. This team's needs are clear. #1 starter, middle of the order righty bat, back-end reliever/closer. Clear upgrades/need fillers should be the priority. Breslow has plenty of prospect ammo to make big move that helps the team this year and next. They aren’t getting a #1 SP at the deadline — only clear #1 is Skubal and as discussed here pretty thoroughly, the Orioles have the greatest need and the most pieces to pull that trade off. I also don’t see the argument about tax space. A reminder that any trade acquisitions are prorated, so they have plenty of available salary space to work with. I agree Skubal is very unlikely especially with the o's involved. I don't see any reason why they can't be serious suitors for Crochet and potentially luis robert. Crochet obviously has some red flags but if he continues to pitch the way he has this season you've found your new #1 and have the rotation set up for this season and next.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 22, 2024 18:22:13 GMT -5
The thought of adding yet another mediocre infielder that can't play SS to the 2024 and 2025 rosters fills me with despair I’d rather pick up a cheap Pokey type, glove 10/bat 3, like Ahmed, for the bench and just stick with Hamilton at 2B (Westbrook and Valdez to Worcester). Pokey Jr came come in late at SS, moving Ceddanne to CF or 2B.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 22, 2024 18:26:25 GMT -5
They aren’t getting a #1 SP at the deadline — only clear #1 is Skubal and as discussed here pretty thoroughly, the Orioles have the greatest need and the most pieces to pull that trade off. I also don’t see the argument about tax space. A reminder that any trade acquisitions are prorated, so they have plenty of available salary space to work with. I agree Skubal is very unlikely especially with the o's involved. I don't see any reason why they can't be serious suitors for Crochet and potentially luis robert. Crochet obviously has some red flags but if he continues to pitch the way he has this season you've found your new #1 and have the rotation set up for this season and next. I like the idea of using Crochet out of the bullpen the rest of the season to control his load and also acquire a regular SP. Nightingale suggested that Bassitt and/or Gaussmann could be in play, which makes sense in terms of their salaries and they didn’t come up in that org.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 22, 2024 18:55:43 GMT -5
I dont agree with the World Series or bust mentality. Unless they lose just about every freaking game between now and the deadline and fall more than a few games out I dont see what good it does then to punt. At some point they need to go for it, but that means different things. Given where they are organizationally it makes no sense to part with top prospects. All they need to do is beat out some middling teams that aren't much better than them, if they are at all. This, they can't be better than Minnesota or Kansas City or Seattle stuff is about as silly as expecting them to overtake NY and Baltimore. They dont have to overtake them to have a successful season. They just need to make the damn playoffs. You cant expect a relatively young team to just win everything. There are usually steps along the way. If you watched the Celtics this year it was quite evident a maturation experience took place and the previous growing pains in the post season finally yielded dividends. It would be good for guys like Duran and Rafaela and others to experience the post season, even if it's a quick two and out (just dont do that against the Yankees, lol). Hell, it's not even a guarantee that they dont make noise if they get in. Expecting them to win the Series is a bit much, but they're at the point they have to start making the playoffs. Enough of this punt every July crap. When it's obvious they aren't going to be good enough to make the post season that's one thing, but this team is capable of being WC2 or WC3. Might as well do it and actually make the season interesting rather than trying for a fifth season in 6 where they cant even make the damn expanded playoffs Like others said, not much of an attraction for other free agents to come to a team that cant even be the top 40% of their league. I agree with just about everything here, except for the part about it being silly to expect them to overtake MFY or BAL. That’s exactly what I’m aiming for. There are 2.5 months to go and they’re only 6.5 GB. MFY are deeply flawed and haven’t won a series in over a month. Obviously BAL are good but there’s nothing wrong with being a nobody-believes-in-us underdog. LFG!!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 22, 2024 19:38:20 GMT -5
I dont agree with the World Series or bust mentality. Unless they lose just about every freaking game between now and the deadline and fall more than a few games out I dont see what good it does then to punt. At some point they need to go for it, but that means different things. Given where they are organizationally it makes no sense to part with top prospects. All they need to do is beat out some middling teams that aren't much better than them, if they are at all. This, they can't be better than Minnesota or Kansas City or Seattle stuff is about as silly as expecting them to overtake NY and Baltimore. They dont have to overtake them to have a successful season. They just need to make the damn playoffs. You cant expect a relatively young team to just win everything. There are usually steps along the way. If you watched the Celtics this year it was quite evident a maturation experience took place and the previous growing pains in the post season finally yielded dividends. It would be good for guys like Duran and Rafaela and others to experience the post season, even if it's a quick two and out (just dont do that against the Yankees, lol). Hell, it's not even a guarantee that they dont make noise if they get in. Expecting them to win the Series is a bit much, but they're at the point they have to start making the playoffs. Enough of this punt every July crap. When it's obvious they aren't going to be good enough to make the post season that's one thing, but this team is capable of being WC2 or WC3. Might as well do it and actually make the season interesting rather than trying for a fifth season in 6 where they cant even make the damn expanded playoffs Like others said, not much of an attraction for other free agents to come to a team that cant even be the top 40% of their league. I agree with just about everything here, except for the part about it being silly to expect them to overtake MFY or BAL. That’s exactly what I’m aiming for. There are 2.5 months to go and they’re only 6.5 GB. MFY are deeply flawed and haven’t won a series in over a month. Obviously BAL are good but there’s nothing wrong with being a nobody-believes-in-us underdog. LFG!! To get a team that's as good or better than Baltimore the Sox would have to trade a lot of their good minor league talent to make themselves that much better and truly plug all the holes and turn them into the strengths needed to surpass Baltimore. Honestly, while I know that the AL East champ will get a first round bye, I don't think going to that extreme to pass the Orioles or even the Yankees is really that necessary. Just make the damn playoffs. Hell, they might be better off as the 3rd wild card playing the weakest division winner which probably will be Houston. I just don't see it being worth in trade costs trying to erase a 5 game deficit or whatever it would take. For example, I would not trade the prospect capital needed to acquire Crochet (especially to be a bullpen guy) or Mason Miller. I'd make incremental trades, the kind made to bring an area of weakness to average and would trade from their lesser prospects (in other words hands off the top 4, Montgomery and Arias) There will be other seasons ahead where they might have to make "bigger" moves and where they're right there at the top of the division with Baltimore but they're not there yet. I think this team as it stands is an 85 - 88 win team. They just need enough of a push to be better than KC and Seattle or even Minnesota.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 23, 2024 5:11:45 GMT -5
“U up?” - Craig Breslow to Jed Hoyer at approximately 2:13 am ET tomorrow morning The Sox could be in the process of playing themselves into a situation where management would have an excuse, at least, to make the same statement. This is a bad week to have a bad week.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 23, 2024 5:44:33 GMT -5
“U up?” - Craig Breslow to Jed Hoyer at approximately 2:13 am ET tomorrow morning The Sox could be in the process of playing themselves into a situation where management would have an excuse, at least, to make the same statement. This is a bad week to have a bad week. True. The thing to remember is that while the Sox are having a bad go of it recently, and they’re under .500 vs playoff teams, what they’ve done up to this point is miraculous and they owe this group something. If they don’t add to this team at the deadline, Cora is definitely gone, he might be anyways but this would seal it. I’d be fine with trading impending free agents but I’d also be fine with this team adding to this team, provided none of the top 5 prospects are moved without a damn good reason. Someone like Skubal gets moved, that’s a good reason. Crochet isn’t IMO.
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Post by markm7 on Jul 23, 2024 5:50:32 GMT -5
Got to imagine Breslow is putting everything up for sale today after the past 4 days. He always knew this was a possibility and most likely situation. No excuses about being short handed or tired they had a whole all star break off and came out looking like the previous iterations of this team led by that idiot in the dugout.
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Post by costpet on Jul 23, 2024 6:37:38 GMT -5
As Jim Cramer would say, SELL SELL SELL!
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 23, 2024 6:42:26 GMT -5
Last nights loss was bad but they're still just 2 GB from a WC vs the Royals and the Twins who lets be honest aren't exactly world beaters. I would suggest folks take a step back from the ledge and give the team another week before making any proclamations as to whether they need to buy or sell.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jul 23, 2024 6:56:46 GMT -5
They can probably add Paxton and France this week for a couple of PTBNL to say they did something. Depending on how the next 6 games shakeout probably determines if they do anything else. AJ Puk makes sense with club control for 2.5 years.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 23, 2024 7:21:57 GMT -5
One week can completely change the course of a season. If the Sox go on a 5-6 game winning streak here they most certainly be buyers and we will can dream about October baseball. At the same time, while 4 losses isn't a death sentence, if they were to lose the next 5-6 games we will be chatting here next week about what type of returns we can get for any expiring contracts.
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Post by puzzler on Jul 23, 2024 9:01:18 GMT -5
One week can completely change the course of a season. If the Sox go on a 5-6 game winning streak here they most certainly be buyers and we will can dream about October baseball. At the same time, while 4 losses isn't a death sentence, if they were to lose the next 5-6 games we will be chatting here next week about what type of returns we can get for any expiring contracts. They pretty much need to win 4 of the next 5 or I'm firmly in the sell camp. There just isn't nearly enough pitching in the system and they have the means to acquire some before free agency even starts.
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Post by jclmontana on Jul 23, 2024 9:06:08 GMT -5
This season is this season. This trade deadline has nothing to do with any other year’s trade deadline. Buying this year to appease the fan base upset by past years’ deadline failures—by a different front office leader—would be stupid. Looking at the big picture, the Sox don’t have pitching depth to compensate for Crawford and Houck’s rising pitch counts and predictable need for innings management. There are also just enough roster construction problems and bullpen volatility to make patching all or even enough of the holes unrealistic. It’s not about the last four games, it’s about what one can be reasonably hope for during the rest of the season. One could argue the season was pissed away during the off season by roster construction, but the Sox are where they are, and it would probably be a disaster if the front office tried to fix all the problems on this team at this point in time. A mild buy, a balance of buy/sell or staying the course would be okay. A selling would be depressing, but probably warranted.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 23, 2024 9:08:50 GMT -5
It's uncanny how 2024 is an exact repeat of 2023: a hot streak in the middle of the season that had everyone talking about the Red Sox' young talent finally arriving, followed by the pitching wearing down due to injuries and a lack of depth, leading to a cold streak in the days before the trade deadline, which they arrived at 2 games out of a wild card and with roughly 1-in-3 playoff odds.
And they still need a RH second baseman. I wonder if Luis Urias is available?
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Post by texs31 on Jul 23, 2024 9:09:53 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 23, 2024 9:18:01 GMT -5
What would be a disaster is NOT supporting this team. They have busted their butts all season and have performed above expectations. The idea that they should only support a team that doesn't need support... and shouldn't support a team that needs support is 180 degrees backwards.
These are still real human beings and not some video game. The whole idea of a team is...."I got your back and you got mine" What do we expect to happen if the players don't feel like the FO has their backs?? We have seen it before, why would this year be different??
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Post by rhswanzey on Jul 23, 2024 9:46:47 GMT -5
If the team is literally the best in baseball for close to two months, and then goes 0-4 instead of 2-2 in four games, and that alone changes the trade deadline approach and long term strategy, then this organization has much, much bigger problems than an 8th inning RHP.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 23, 2024 9:46:56 GMT -5
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 23, 2024 9:50:19 GMT -5
Add Paxton, trade for T.Scott and call it a deadline? Scott was just the only "swing and miss" lefty reliever I could think of, there are probably others. Also not saying I want to get in a bidding war for T.Scott. He might end up being pretty pricey for a rental.
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