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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 24, 2024 10:47:37 GMT -5
Just a reminder that we have a subforum specifically for hypothetical trade proposals: forum.soxprospects.com/board/14/trade-proposal-subforumLet's steer clear of hypothetical trade talk here unless there is some concrete reporting on the Red Sox being interested in certain players, etc. Thanks! Happy to put things where they belong, but request a quick clarification please? What content should be specifically unser trade dealine vs what you prefer under trade proposals? Example: If I say, how about a big push to land George Kirby, that seems like people talking about Crochet/others and would be ok, correct? (Or no?) But maybe you are saying if you list a whole potential trade, that goes in the other thread? Others have discussed who they would be willing/not willing to give up for Crochet or Skubal, and that seemed OK. So is the line discussing a whole specific proposal? Or is it sensitivity around current MLB rostered players? Just want to understand so I can follow correctly going forward. Tyvm! Your example is totally fine and I think it's fine to throw out players you think the Sox should be interested in and the types of prospects you would be willing to give up. I just would try to steer clear of proposing X player for specific prospects on the main forum if you can (we know it gets tough right around the deadline).
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Post by nonothing on Jul 24, 2024 10:50:44 GMT -5
Unlike some other posters, I think the Red Sox adding Paxton would be a step in the right direction for this year. I would still want another starter to go with him who was under contract for next year. Crawford and Houck need to have their innings managed during the second half. Maybe you could give each a short DL stint (one after the other) while Paxton fills in for them. Moreover, I don't think it would take a lot to get him. I like Dalbecin terms of the effort he puts in and I like his power, but I just don't think it is going to happen for him in Boston. Would be good for him to get a new start elsewhere and the last I looked the Dodgers do not currently have an all star playing 3rd base. If they don't want Dalbec, how about Meridroth or Sogard? Agree on Paxton for exactly same reason and think we still need another SP, ideally controllable. Not sure we can get anything for Dalbec, and if so, likely not from a playoff bound team. He just strikes out more than any MLB team can take. A team like the Marlins could play him every day and give him the runway he needs to see MLB pitching and maybe turn the corner. But I don't see much of a return other than a similar struggler -- maybe an arm with high K totals and no control that we could swap and hope for change of scenery benefits?
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Post by nonothing on Jul 24, 2024 10:52:25 GMT -5
Happy to put things where they belong, but request a quick clarification please? What content should be specifically unser trade dealine vs what you prefer under trade proposals? Example: If I say, how about a big push to land George Kirby, that seems like people talking about Crochet/others and would be ok, correct? (Or no?) But maybe you are saying if you list a whole potential trade, that goes in the other thread? Others have discussed who they would be willing/not willing to give up for Crochet or Skubal, and that seemed OK. So is the line discussing a whole specific proposal? Or is it sensitivity around current MLB rostered players? Just want to understand so I can follow correctly going forward. Tyvm! Your example is totally fine and I think it's fine to throw out players you think the Sox should be interested in and the types of prospects you would be willing to give up. I just would try to steer clear of proposing X player for specific prospects on the main forum if you can (we know it gets tough right around the deadline). Tyvm!
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2024 11:23:38 GMT -5
Even if O’Neill accepted the QO they wouldn’t necessarily have to keep him. If that’s his market value they could trade him away. I’m pretty sure if he finishes the season healthy and not traded he will get the offer. IIRC you can’t trade a player that accepts a QO until mid-June
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 24, 2024 11:31:07 GMT -5
Even if O’Neill accepted the QO they wouldn’t necessarily have to keep him. If that’s his market value they could trade him away. I’m pretty sure if he finishes the season healthy and not traded he will get the offer. IIRC you can’t trade a player that accepts a QO until mid-June Is this true? I can't find anything stating it, but if so it does complicate the decision to offer one if you think the player might accept.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2024 11:35:18 GMT -5
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 24, 2024 11:46:51 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead.
If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 24, 2024 11:57:03 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead. If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening. I dont know the Canha is a slight downgrade. O'Neill is OPSing around .900 and on pace to smash 35 HRs while playing pretty much every day. Canha is more of a short half platoon guy and even in that role he's not O'Neill. And I say this while open eyed to O'Neill's flaws. O'Neill might hit 35 HRs and fall to knock in 60 runs. I know RBIs arent understandably an analytical stat but it does tell one that if O'Neill comes up with runners on, he really hasn't delivered. I think we've seen him strike out a number of times with a runner on 3b and less than 2 outs and tar stat says,that if he doesn't hit a HR he has a tough time driving in runners. Still, damn good player and I'd QO him as he'd fill a role very well for a year until Campbell is ready. But then again I'd probably run a higher payroll than what's going to happen so if they need to allocate 20 million, yeah it'll go toward a pitcher probably. Truthfully, though, even with a QO, O'Neill could get 45 million on the open market for 3 years perhaps, so he'd probably turn it down anyways.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 24, 2024 11:58:49 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead. If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening. As you say, I think the money part is the big question. If they think he's worth 20 million and don't have the same restrictions on spending as they seemingly did last offseason, I'm fine bringing back a 30+ HR bat for one year and you figure things out as you go vis-a-vis the OF/DH spots
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Post by puzzler on Jul 24, 2024 12:07:14 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead. If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening. As you say, I think the money part is the big question. If they think he's worth 20 million and don't have the same restrictions on spending as they seemingly did last offseason, I'm fine bringing back a 30+ HR bat for one year and you figure things out as you go vis-a-vis the OF/DH spots It also provides you with a bit of injury insurance. Everyone wants Rafaela in CF long term - but if Story gets hurt again or you still have a black hole at 2B - then Duran seamlessly moves back to CF. And if you don't bring back O'Neill - who is the right handed thumper that replaces his 30 home runs? It isn't Story though he would be an overall upgrade to the RH hitting situation. Is there such a player in free agency? I don't believe there is. Now if you're going after Soto then you could potentially trade Abreu and O'Neill and no problem for 2025; other than you still don't have good RHH.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jul 24, 2024 12:37:28 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead. If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening. I dont know the Canha is a slight downgrade. O'Neill is OPSing around .900 and on pace to smash 35 HRs while playing pretty much every day. Canha is more of a short half platoon guy and even in that role he's not O'Neill. And I say this while open eyed to O'Neill's flaws. O'Neill might hit 35 HRs and fall to knock in 60 runs. I know RBIs arent understandably an analytical stat but it does tell one that if O'Neill comes up with runners on, he really hasn't delivered. I think we've seen him strike out a number of times with a runner on 3b and less than 2 outs and tar stat says,that if he doesn't hit a HR he has a tough time driving in runners. Still, damn good player and I'd QO him as he'd fill a role very well for a year until Campbell is ready. But then again I'd probably run a higher payroll than what's going to happen so if they need to allocate 20 million, yeah it'll go toward a pitcher probably. Truthfully, though, even with a QO, O'Neill could get 45 million on the open market for 3 years perhaps, so he'd probably turn it down anyways. I still think you go for Canha or some sort of RHH 1B and keep O’Neill for this season. Really need a warm body who can hit LHP and give some 1B platoon insurance to free up Romy at other IF spots especially with the Devers injury scare and Casas not coming back anytime soon.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 24, 2024 12:39:18 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead. If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening. He's a really interesting QO case. If he ends the season as projected he'll be at 3+ WAR. Everyone that good last year who was eligible received a QO. But he doesn't really have a strong track record outside of this year, particularly health wise, and as you say Teoscar Hernandez was probably similar-ish in value and got a deal only worth about as much as a QO despite not having to deal with one attached to him. Gurriel Jr. was also similar-ish in value and got a better deal than the QO though, and O'Neill would be both younger and coming off a better season than both of them. I'd guess given his health O'Neill would prefer a multi-year deal at a lower AAV, but who knows. There's other factors here too though. For instance what does Yoshida do the rest of the way? There's a scenario where he's good enough to get off the contract without giving anything up and then maybe the Red Sox prefer O'Neill's righty bat at DH (and the added defensive flexibility and the lesser overall commitment).
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jul 24, 2024 12:40:02 GMT -5
He was better than I would have expected. I know folks have said they’d prefer to have Winck continue starting over Paxton, but I rather try to make him an elite late inning arm again. And as solid as Criswell has been, I think he’d be a great bulk inning guy in the pen over Anderson. Paxton just got DFA. There’s a reason he got DFA’d and not necessarily because he’s horrible. The Dodgers have both Glasnow and Kershaw coming back today and tomorrow as well as have a couple of SP prospects they wanna slot into the rotation. They’re simply out of room.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Jul 24, 2024 12:40:29 GMT -5
As you say, I think the money part is the big question. If they think he's worth 20 million and don't have the same restrictions on spending as they seemingly did last offseason, I'm fine bringing back a 30+ HR bat for one year and you figure things out as you go vis-a-vis the OF/DH spots It also provides you with a bit of injury insurance. Everyone wants Rafaela in CF long term - but if Story gets hurt again or you still have a black hole at 2B - then Duran seamlessly moves back to CF. And if you don't bring back O'Neill - who is the right handed thumper that replaces his 30 home runs? It isn't Story though he would be an overall upgrade to the RH hitting situation. Is there such a player in free agency? I don't believe there is. Now if you're going after Soto then you could potentially trade Abreu and O'Neill and no problem for 2025; other than you still don't have good RHH. Exactly. This is a team that has trouble against left-handed pitching. So you are not going to resign your only right-handed power bat? They need to resign him and try to improve at 2nd with Grissom or Yorke or Campbell or some other right-handed hitter so they can better handle left handed pitching this year and next, imo. Cots contracts shows the Red Sox around $19 million below the luxury tax with Jenson and Martin on expiring contracts combining to be another $25 million. I think they can afford to pay O'Neil and get a starter.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 24, 2024 12:46:24 GMT -5
The more I think about it, I don't think I'd want to see them QO O'Neill as I think he would accept it. Next year Story should be back to play SS and Mayer should be a year closer so Rafaela should see more PT in CF. Duran gets the bulk of PT at a COF spot. I think an Abreu/Ref platoon with Lugo also an option to take over some of those OF RHH ABs would give a similar production for a fraction of the cost. Paying O'Neill $20M~ for one year wouldn't be a back breaker but let's just assume they don't want to blow past the LT. That is a big chunk of change that they could use to offer Burnes/Fried instead. If I am Breslow I'm assessing what I could get back in an O'Neill deal and seeing what a guy like Canha would cost. It's a slight downgrade but if that combo of moves could provide what Breslow thinks is more future wins while taking a slight present win hit I could get behind it. I know a lot of fans probably would not be happy with it though so I don't foresee it happening. He's a really interesting QO case. If he ends the season as projected he'll be at 3+ WAR. Everyone that good last year who was eligible received a QO. But he doesn't really have a strong track record outside of this year, particularly health wise, and as you say Teoscar Hernandez was probably similar-ish in value and got a deal only worth about as much as a QO despite not having to deal with one attached to him. Gurriel Jr. was also similar-ish in value and got a better deal than the QO though, and O'Neill would be both younger and coming off a better season than both of them. I'd guess given his health O'Neill would prefer a multi-year deal at a lower AAV, but who knows. There's other factors here too though. For instance what does Yoshida do the rest of the way? There's a scenario where he's good enough to get off the contract without giving anything up and then maybe the Red Sox prefer O'Neill's righty bat at DH (and the added defensive flexibility and the lesser overall commitment). Yes, I really have no idea what to make of his potential market. Gurriel, Soler and Hernandez are probably the closest comps from last season but none had the QO attached. With the QO we've seen that really hampers a guys market. They could always QO him and if he rejects still work out a for 2-3 years at a lesser AAV though. Either way still a lot of questions out there that we don't have the answers to as fans, I.E. how much can they actually spend, can they get off Yoshida's contract, would they want O'Neill for more than a year or two with who they have coming up through the minors etc. As others pointed out I did underestimate the downgrade of a guy like Canha vs O'Neill. Another question obviously is what would O'Neill actually bring back in a trade as a rental? I could see it being no more than than a controlled BP arm to as much as a controlled SP with upside so who knows. Chances are they hang on to O'Neill if I had to make a guess on it though.
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 24, 2024 13:03:49 GMT -5
There’s a reason he got DFA’d and not necessarily because he’s horrible. The Dodgers have both Glasnow and Kershaw coming back today and tomorrow as well as have a couple of SP prospects they wanna slot into the rotation. They’re simply out of room. Paxton was throwing 95mph in his last inning against the Sox on Sunday night.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jul 24, 2024 13:23:52 GMT -5
A bit outside-of-the-box and risky, but what are folks’ thoughts on trading for Goldschmidt as a RHH 1B bat? Yeah, he’s having a pretty tough season, but his splits against LHP isn’t bad and one would hope that he could turn it around. He’s also a FA after this season so cost would likely be minimal. I also know the Cardinals will be buyers given their current WC status, but they do have the depth to easily replace Goldschmidt @ 1B.
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Post by ephus on Jul 24, 2024 13:35:42 GMT -5
A bit outside-of-the-box and risky, but what are folks’ thoughts on trading for Goldschmidt as a RHH 1B bat? Yeah, he’s having a pretty tough season, but his splits against LHP isn’t bad and one would hope that he could turn it around. He’s also a FA after this season so cost would likely be minimal. I also know the Cardinals will be buyers given their current WC status, but they do have the depth to easily replace Goldschmidt @ 1B. Extremely small sample size, but I saw Goldschmidt live at Wrigley earlier this year and his swing is looooong and he just can’t get it through the zone to barrel anything. I don’t think he offers any value at this point. Sad to say for a dude who was elite, but like José Abreu, time hits some dudes fast and hard.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 24, 2024 16:46:04 GMT -5
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 24, 2024 16:46:10 GMT -5
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 24, 2024 16:50:55 GMT -5
They better come away with something at this deadline after publicly stating that a week before the deadline. I have a feeling at least one if not multiple trades are going to leave many including myself scratching our heads a bit but we'll see.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jul 24, 2024 16:51:20 GMT -5
Especially Kennedy. If ever a person should be seen and not heard, it's Sam Kennedy. Breslow is just too intelligent to have charisma. At least Bloom. while intelligent, looked like a goblin so you were glued to your seat to see if this was the time he finished his interview with some iteration of "boogedy boo, I eat you." The Red Sox need to hire a press secretary whose whole job is to speak to the media in lieu of the FO and who knows what is entertaining and useful versus what amounts to a bowl of word soup.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jul 24, 2024 17:14:23 GMT -5
The nerve of Craig Breslow saying he will try to make the team better and win games
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jul 24, 2024 17:56:42 GMT -5
At least they’re picking a lane.
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Post by costpet on Jul 24, 2024 18:40:21 GMT -5
I wonder if today's game makes him hesitate?
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