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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 25, 2024 9:12:33 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 25, 2024 9:14:55 GMT -5
I've seen the Red Sox mentioned as an after thought in a couple of national articles but it's almost like they don't exist when it comes to writing articles on the deadline. It's pretty stupid since the Sox are one of the most well known franchises so you'd think they'd get some shine to try and get clicks.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jul 25, 2024 9:28:06 GMT -5
I've seen the Red Sox mentioned as an after thought in a couple of national articles but it's almost like they don't exist when it comes to writing articles on the deadline. It's pretty stupid since the Sox are one of the most well known franchises so you'd think they'd get some shine to try and get clicks. Talking about them as a baseball team doesn't seem to move the needle as much as badmouthing their ownership.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jul 25, 2024 9:31:54 GMT -5
It also provides you with a bit of injury insurance. Everyone wants Rafaela in CF long term - but if Story gets hurt again or you still have a black hole at 2B - then Duran seamlessly moves back to CF. And if you don't bring back O'Neill - who is the right handed thumper that replaces his 30 home runs? It isn't Story though he would be an overall upgrade to the RH hitting situation. Is there such a player in free agency? I don't believe there is. Now if you're going after Soto then you could potentially trade Abreu and O'Neill and no problem for 2025; other than you still don't have good RHH. Exactly. This is a team that has trouble against left-handed pitching. So you are not going to resign your only right-handed power bat? They need to resign him and try to improve at 2nd with Grissom or Yorke or Campbell or some other right-handed hitter so they can better handle left handed pitching this year and next, imo. Cots contracts shows the Red Sox around $19 million below the luxury tax with Jenson and Martin on expiring contracts combining to be another $25 million. I think they can afford to pay O'Neil and get a starter. Additionally, TON is 29 going on 30. His best season ever (2021) yielded 6.3 bWAR in 141 games (7.2 bWAR pace over 162). This season, the Sox are getting the best year of his career outside of 2021 (2.2 bWAR in 73 games; 4.9 bWAR pace over 162). How often can you get a player in the prime of their career with 4+ WAR upside and only 1 year of commitment? It is considerable upside with limited downside. Not to mention, he fits the needs of the roster and the clubhouse culture. Is the downside that he may not be quite worth the ~$20MM a QO would provide? This is a roster FILLED with kids making $700k/year. They can afford to throw an extra few M's here and there. No big deal.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 25, 2024 9:37:33 GMT -5
Exactly. This is a team that has trouble against left-handed pitching. So you are not going to resign your only right-handed power bat? They need to resign him and try to improve at 2nd with Grissom or Yorke or Campbell or some other right-handed hitter so they can better handle left handed pitching this year and next, imo. Cots contracts shows the Red Sox around $19 million below the luxury tax with Jenson and Martin on expiring contracts combining to be another $25 million. I think they can afford to pay O'Neil and get a starter. Additionally, TON is 29 going on 30. His best season ever (2021) yielded 6.3 bWAR in 141 games (7.2 bWAR pace over 162). This season, the Sox are getting the best year of his career outside of 2021 (2.2 bWAR in 73 games; 4.9 bWAR pace over 162). How often can you get a player in the prime of their career with 4+ WAR upside and only 1 year of commitment? It is considerable upside with limited downside. Not to mention, he fits the needs of the roster and the clubhouse culture. Is the downside that he may not be quite worth the ~$20MM a QO would provide? This is a roster FILLED with kids making $700k/year. They can afford to throw an extra few M's here and there. No big deal. The downside in my eyes is dependent on what their budget is for 2025. If paying O'Neill the QO takes them out of the running for Burnes or Fried then that is not a price I'd want to see them pay. I would much rather have Burnes or Fried than O'Neill on the QO. After looking a little closer at their payroll I now think chances are they can afford to do both and stay under the LT if they have a hard stop at that line though.
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Post by chaimtime on Jul 25, 2024 10:02:51 GMT -5
The Rays control the deadline too much for my liking. It makes it very difficult to figure out market values—could a trade give a less clear signal on that front than Civale for Gregory Barrios? For all I know, you could get Zach Eflin for Ovis Portes straight up, which you would obviously have to do, even if it feels like an inevitability that they’d have Portes getting Cy Young votes by 2030.
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Post by patford on Jul 25, 2024 10:19:26 GMT -5
Why would the Chisox trade Thorpe? They have him for dirt cheap the next 6.5 years. I keep waffling on Crochet but overall would take the plunge on him if he can be had without dealing one of the big 3, which I have my doubts they'd accept a deal if it didn't include one of them other than just blowing them away with pure volume of guys in the 5-15 range. The WS would trade Thorpe if the package coming back was solid enough and it definitely would include one of the big 3 plus. Example: Mayer or Anthony (Anthony fits the WS better) One of Perales (TJ), Bleis or Cespedes. (Bleis is the best fit) Three from: Yorke, Valdez, Wikeleman, Fitts, Sandlin, Lugo, Meidroth or the like That would clear space for draftees and the 40 man this offseason. From the WS perspective, rebuilds are never 1 year. It's interesting to see the way people group players. For example I'd assign way more value to Yorke than Valdez, Fitts, Lugo or Meidroth. Sandlin has too much unknown upside and Gonzalez has had such a bad year I doubt he has much value.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jul 25, 2024 10:28:52 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see if we get a sense for how Matthew Lugo is valued in this deadline. In theory he is one of the guys it makes the most sense for the Sox to trade (saves a 40 man decision, Sox have a ton of outfielders already, could very well be selling extremely high) and I could definitely see why a team would value him given his production this year and the fact he's still quite young. I would see if it's a starting point for Nick Martinez, personally, but I think it makes sense to shop him around to any rebuilding or selling team for a controllable reliever.
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Post by awalkinthepark on Jul 25, 2024 10:32:13 GMT -5
Why would the Chisox trade Thorpe? They have him for dirt cheap the next 6.5 years. I keep waffling on Crochet but overall would take the plunge on him if he can be had without dealing one of the big 3, which I have my doubts they'd accept a deal if it didn't include one of them other than just blowing them away with pure volume of guys in the 5-15 range. The WS would trade Thorpe if the package coming back was solid enough and it definitely would include one of the big 3 plus. Example: Mayer or Anthony (Anthony fits the WS better) One of Perales (TJ), Bleis or Cespedes. (Bleis is the best fit) Three from: Yorke, Valdez, Wikeleman, Fitts, Sandlin, Lugo, Meidroth or the like That would clear space for draftees and the 40 man this offseason. From the WS perspective, rebuilds are never 1 year. The problem with this is that trades work when one team trades future wins for present wins and the other does the opposite. Breslow has said as much.
The White Sox would trade Crochet because he is contributing to the immediate present, where the wins are pretty much worthless. Drew Thorpe on the other hand will contribute toward future wins, which is why they were willing to swap Cease for him in the offseason.
Teams line up on trades when their competitive windows differ. The White Sox can exchange some 2024 wins for 2027 wins, whereas the team they trade with does the opposite.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 25, 2024 10:32:39 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see if we get a sense for how Matthew Lugo is valued in this deadline. In theory he is one of the guys it makes the most sense for the Sox to trade (saves a 40 man decision, Sox have a ton of outfielders already, could very well be selling extremely high) and I could definitely see why a team would value him given his production this year and the fact he's still quite young. I would see if it's a starting point for Nick Martinez, personally, but I think it makes sense to shop him around to any rebuilding or selling team for a controllable reliever. To me I'm not sure if it does make a ton of sense to deal Lugo, as you say they do seem to have depth in the OF in the org right now but almost all of them are LHH. To me Lugo seems like he could be a great guy to keep around to take over the Refsnyder or maybe even the O'Neill role for peanuts.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 25, 2024 10:37:31 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see if we get a sense for how Matthew Lugo is valued in this deadline. In theory he is one of the guys it makes the most sense for the Sox to trade (saves a 40 man decision, Sox have a ton of outfielders already, could very well be selling extremely high) and I could definitely see why a team would value him given his production this year and the fact he's still quite young. I would see if it's a starting point for Nick Martinez, personally, but I think it makes sense to shop him around to any rebuilding or selling team for a controllable reliever. Agree Lugo feels like the most obvious trade candidate, and Paulino is in a similar boat though to a slightly lesser extent given he might have less value and is further from MLB.
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 25, 2024 10:41:48 GMT -5
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jul 25, 2024 10:43:18 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see if we get a sense for how Matthew Lugo is valued in this deadline. In theory he is one of the guys it makes the most sense for the Sox to trade (saves a 40 man decision, Sox have a ton of outfielders already, could very well be selling extremely high) and I could definitely see why a team would value him given his production this year and the fact he's still quite young. I would see if it's a starting point for Nick Martinez, personally, but I think it makes sense to shop him around to any rebuilding or selling team for a controllable reliever. To me I'm not sure if it does make a ton of sense to deal Lugo, as you say they do seem to have depth in the OF in the org right now but almost all of them are LHH. To me Lugo seems like he could be a great guy to keep around to take over the Refsnyder or maybe even the O'Neill role for peanuts. My thoughts exactly - would love to get some reports on his ability in the outfield but he looks to me like he's got a pretty complete bat from the right side that would be useful.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jul 25, 2024 10:53:40 GMT -5
To me I'm not sure if it does make a ton of sense to deal Lugo, as you say they do seem to have depth in the OF in the org right now but almost all of them are LHH. To me Lugo seems like he could be a great guy to keep around to take over the Refsnyder or maybe even the O'Neill role for peanuts. My thoughts exactly - would love to get some reports on his ability in the outfield but he looks to me like he's got a pretty complete bat from the right side that would be useful. There are definitely some sample size concerns here but outside of last year in Portland and this brief AAA stint so far, he's always been better against RHP. I had this thought at one point as well and it could certainly be sample noise like I said, but he doesn't seem to be the surefire lefty-destroyer that Refsnyder is.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 25, 2024 11:14:28 GMT -5
Red Sox controlled outfielders beyond 2024 MLB & Top 20 Prospects:
Player, Positions, Handedness, Level
Duran, LF/CF, (L), MLB Rafaela, LF/CF/RF, (R), MLB Abreu, LF/RF, (L), MLB Refsnyder, LF/RF, (R), MLB Anthony, LF/CF/RF (?), (L), AA (soon to be AAA) Bleis, LF/CF/RF, (R), A+ Campbell, LF/CF/RF (?), (R), AA Lugo, LF/RF, (R), AAA Castro, LF/RF, (S), A+ Montgomery, LF/RF (?), (S), A+ (?)
Maybe: Yorke, LF, (R), AAA
I'm not sure their outfield of the future is disproportionately lefty, looks like a pretty balanced mix to me. Only room for three guys out there, two are probably going to hit from the same side of the plate.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 25, 2024 11:18:06 GMT -5
sounds like Canha to me
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Post by soxpatsceltics on Jul 25, 2024 11:20:09 GMT -5
With Breslow saying that he might buy and sell, I wonder if there's any thought to trying to sell high on Abreu and his 5 years of control. He's probably always going to need a RH platoon and his ceiling is for sure lower than prospects in the system that could be in Boston as soon as next year. A team like the Nationals could make sense... they could trade rental Winker as a short term replacement and one of their relievers with control like Finnegan or Robert Garcia. Or maybe the Giants with future non-tender candidate Mike Yazstremski and a reliever like Hjelle. A 40FV prospect or so going the Sox way in those trades too.
I'm also curious if the Sox are considering Nick Yorke as an "addition" in August. Over the past 2 weeks he's played more LF compared to 2B and he's up to 750 PAs at AA or higher. He's gotta be added to the 40 anyway after this year.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 25, 2024 11:28:28 GMT -5
I've seen the Red Sox mentioned as an after thought in a couple of national articles but it's almost like they don't exist when it comes to writing articles on the deadline. It's pretty stupid since the Sox are one of the most well known franchises so you'd think they'd get some shine to try and get clicks. I can't say I blame them. A team that's a couple games out of a wild card spot with 30-40% playoff odds is exactly the kind of team you'd expect to be least active at the trade deadline.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 25, 2024 11:28:50 GMT -5
Nick Yorke getting called up to play 2B isn't outside of the realm of possibility, but there's 0% chance they'd call him up and let him learn the OF in the majors this year.
On the other hand, that above quote from Breslow made me think of Yorke right away. Possible that another team wanted to see what he looks like in the OF
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Jul 25, 2024 11:30:34 GMT -5
With Breslow saying that he might buy and sell, I wonder if there's any thought to trying to sell high on Abreu and his 5 years of control. He's probably always going to need a RH platoon and his ceiling is for sure lower than prospects in the system that could be in Boston as soon as next year. A team like the Nationals could make sense... they could trade rental Winker as a short term replacement and one of their relievers with control like Finnegan or Robert Garcia. Or maybe the Giants with future non-tender candidate Mike Yazstremski and a reliever like Hjelle. A 40FV prospect or so going the Sox way in those trades too. I'm also curious if the Sox are considering Nick Yorke as an "addition" in August. Over the past 2 weeks he's played 2more LF compared to 2B and he's up to 750 PAs at AA or higher. He's gotta be added to the 40 anyway after this year. I would not be suprised to see Yorke as soon as tommorrow. Westbrook is a liability at 2b and the Yanks are throwing two lefties in the series, so Hamilton is not a good option. I know he is also a potential trade chip who could go at any time, but today he is ours and he is a better 2b than Westbrook is.
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Post by patford on Jul 25, 2024 11:32:13 GMT -5
Nick Yorke getting called up to play 2B isn't outside of the realm of possibility, but there's 0% chance they'd call him up and let him learn the OF in the majors this year. On the other hand, that above quote from Breslow made me think of Yorke right away. Possible that another team wanted to see what he looks like in the OF Trade Valdez and Abreu. Keep Yorke at least until he's tested in MLB.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Jul 25, 2024 11:33:28 GMT -5
With Breslow saying that he might buy and sell, I wonder if there's any thought to trying to sell high on Abreu and his 5 years of control. He's probably always going to need a RH platoon and his ceiling is for sure lower than prospects in the system that could be in Boston as soon as next year. A team like the Nationals could make sense... they could trade rental Winker as a short term replacement and one of their relievers with control like Finnegan or Robert Garcia. Or maybe the Giants with future non-tender candidate Mike Yazstremski and a reliever like Hjelle. A 40FV prospect or so going the Sox way in those trades too. I'm also curious if the Sox are considering Nick Yorke as an "addition" in August. Over the past 2 weeks he's played 2more LF compared to 2B and he's up to 750 PAs at AA or higher. He's gotta be added to the 40 anyway after this year. I would not be suprised to see Yorke as soon as tommorrow. Westbrook is a liability at 2b and the Yanks are throwing two lefties in the series, so Hamilton is not a good option. I know he is also a potential trade chip who could go at any time, but today he is ours and he is a better 2b than Westbrook is. Not with these reverse splits. www.soxprospects.com/stats/batter.php?split=4&player=694377
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Jul 25, 2024 11:39:47 GMT -5
I would not be suprised to see Yorke as soon as tommorrow. Westbrook is a liability at 2b and the Yanks are throwing two lefties in the series, so Hamilton is not a good option. I know he is also a potential trade chip who could go at any time, but today he is ours and he is a better 2b than Westbrook is. Not with these reverse splits. www.soxprospects.com/stats/batter.php?split=4&player=694377 I am not concerned about that. It is the defense upgrade at 2b that Yorke could provide.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jul 25, 2024 11:39:49 GMT -5
With Breslow saying that he might buy and sell, I wonder if there's any thought to trying to sell high on Abreu and his 5 years of control. He's probably always going to need a RH platoon and his ceiling is for sure lower than prospects in the system that could be in Boston as soon as next year. A team like the Nationals could make sense... they could trade rental Winker as a short term replacement and one of their relievers with control like Finnegan or Robert Garcia. Or maybe the Giants with future non-tender candidate Mike Yazstremski and a reliever like Hjelle. A 40FV prospect or so going the Sox way in those trades too. I'm also curious if the Sox are considering Nick Yorke as an "addition" in August. Over the past 2 weeks he's played 2more LF compared to 2B and he's up to 750 PAs at AA or higher. He's gotta be added to the 40 anyway after this year. I would not be suprised to see Yorke as soon as tommorrow. Westbrook is a liability at 2b and the Yanks are throwing two lefties in the series, so Hamilton is not a good option. I know he is also a potential trade chip who could go at any time, but today he is ours and he is a better 2b than Westbrook is. I feel very strongly that Sogard is going to get a chance before Yorke. More positional versatility and has more than proved himself the last year and a half in Worcester. EDIT: as mentioned, Yorke also needs the AAA reps to get better against LHP. I also think they’re keeping him there for now to protect his trade value at the deadline.
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Post by entrylevelhitman on Jul 25, 2024 11:42:14 GMT -5
Nick Yorke getting called up to play 2B isn't outside of the realm of possibility, but there's 0% chance they'd call him up and let him learn the OF in the majors this year. On the other hand, that above quote from Breslow made me think of Yorke right away. Possible that another team wanted to see what he looks like in the OF I hate to be a "WELL, ACKSHULLY" guy, but Yorke has 200 innings in LF this year between AA and AAA (~24 games). I can't speak to how well he's played it, or if he can play it in the majors, but he's at least familiar with it.
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