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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jul 25, 2024 14:58:17 GMT -5
This is what Chris Sale was talking about when he broke that TV What a big dummy. Haven’t pitchers learned enough from their counterparts hurting themselves out of anger fits?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 25, 2024 15:01:20 GMT -5
After Incandenza's comment I looked a little deeper at Detmers and found some more issues. - His top 4 starts (by ERA) of the season were each of his first 4 starts (totals: 22.2 IP, 15 hits, 7 walks, 30 Ks). Not good if we're looking for improvement. - The slider isn't consistently sticking on a 1-7 plane as in 2023 and he's hanging a lot of breaking balls (per savant). - His fastball has been consistent, but it has always had slightly below average spin and velocity rates, so he can't rely heavily on it when the breaking pitches aren't working. - he has struggled with walks against lefties (4.86 BB/9). Despite being left-handed, lefties were an issue for him in 2023 as well, but the walks were near-neutral to righties.
Since being sent down to AAA: - His Fastball% seems to have increased (48.6% up from 45.9%) but it's getting hit hard (50.9% hardhit%; 91.1 EV) and he has struggled a bit with location (10.7% walk%). - He has reduced his changeup usage (8% down from 14.9%) while increasing his slider usage (29.7% up from 23.6%) to his pre-2024 rates. - His slider has been an awesome put-away pitch (43.4% K%; 3.9% BB%) with 41.4% whiff% and only 2.6% barrel%.
He still looks talented, but probably enough work here that an off-season acquisition makes more sense.
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Post by patford on Jul 25, 2024 15:09:48 GMT -5
After Incandenza's comment I looked a little deeper at Detmers and found some more issues. - His top 4 starts (by ERA) of the season were each of his first 4 starts (totals: 22.2 IP, 15 hits, 7 walks, 30 Ks). Not good if we're looking for improvement. - The slider isn't consistently sticking on a 1-7 plane as in 2023 and he's hanging a lot of breaking balls (per savant). - His fastball has been consistent, but it has always had slightly below average spin and velocity rates, so he can't rely heavily on it when the breaking pitches aren't working. - he has struggled with walks against lefties (4.86 BB/9). Despite being left-handed, lefties were an issue for him in 2023 as well, but the walks were near-neutral to righties. Since being sent down to AAA: - His Fastball% seems to have increased (48.6% up from 45.9%) but it's getting hit hard (50.9% hardhit%; 91.1 EV) and he has struggled a bit with location (10.7% walk%). - He has reduced his changeup usage (8% down from 14.9%) while increasing his slider usage (29.7% up from 23.6%) to his pre-2024 rates. - His slider has been an awesome put-away pitch (43.4% K%; 3.9% BB%) with 41.4% whiff% and only 2.6% barrel%. He still looks talented, but probably enough work here that an off-season acquisition makes more sense. I can't fathom fans who want to get rid of Pivetta and acquire someone likely to be about the same or worse.
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Post by wanderingdude on Jul 25, 2024 15:11:02 GMT -5
After Incandenza's comment I looked a little deeper at Detmers and found some more issues. - His top 4 starts (by ERA) of the season were each of his first 4 starts (totals: 22.2 IP, 15 hits, 7 walks, 30 Ks). Not good if we're looking for improvement. - The slider isn't consistently sticking on a 1-7 plane as in 2023 and he's hanging a lot of breaking balls (per savant). - His fastball has been consistent, but it has always had slightly below average spin and velocity rates, so he can't rely heavily on it when the breaking pitches aren't working. - he has struggled with walks against lefties (4.86 BB/9). Despite being left-handed, lefties were an issue for him in 2023 as well, but the walks were near-neutral to righties. Since being sent down to AAA: - His Fastball% seems to have increased (48.6% up from 45.9%) but it's getting hit hard (50.9% hardhit%; 91.1 EV) and he has struggled a bit with location (10.7% walk%). - He has reduced his changeup usage (8% down from 14.9%) while increasing his slider usage (29.7% up from 23.6%) to his pre-2024 rates. - His slider has been an awesome put-away pitch (43.4% K%; 3.9% BB%) with 41.4% whiff% and only 2.6% barrel%. He still looks talented, but probably enough work here that an off-season acquisition makes more sense. I don’t know how much the pitching Development staff would be able to fix in the short remainder of the season, but i think the long term upside makes it worth it. Obviously depends on the cost but i have so much more faith in Bailey Willard and Breslow that i just want them to get as much raw talent as possible and let them figure it out.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 25, 2024 15:44:57 GMT -5
After Incandenza's comment I looked a little deeper at Detmers and found some more issues. - His top 4 starts (by ERA) of the season were each of his first 4 starts (totals: 22.2 IP, 15 hits, 7 walks, 30 Ks). Not good if we're looking for improvement. - The slider isn't consistently sticking on a 1-7 plane as in 2023 and he's hanging a lot of breaking balls (per savant). - His fastball has been consistent, but it has always had slightly below average spin and velocity rates, so he can't rely heavily on it when the breaking pitches aren't working. - he has struggled with walks against lefties (4.86 BB/9). Despite being left-handed, lefties were an issue for him in 2023 as well, but the walks were near-neutral to righties. Since being sent down to AAA: - His Fastball% seems to have increased (48.6% up from 45.9%) but it's getting hit hard (50.9% hardhit%; 91.1 EV) and he has struggled a bit with location (10.7% walk%). - He has reduced his changeup usage (8% down from 14.9%) while increasing his slider usage (29.7% up from 23.6%) to his pre-2024 rates. - His slider has been an awesome put-away pitch (43.4% K%; 3.9% BB%) with 41.4% whiff% and only 2.6% barrel%. He still looks talented, but probably enough work here that an off-season acquisition makes more sense. I can't fathom fans who want to get rid of Pivetta and acquire someone likely to be about the same or worse. Well Detmers was better than Pivetta both of the last two seasons and is controlled for longer and is 7 years younger. But all that aside I don't think I saw anyone advocating that the team do both those things?
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Post by pappyman99 on Jul 25, 2024 15:50:59 GMT -5
I mean I’d be for Detmers and a another good starter and move Pivetta to the bullpen
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 25, 2024 15:52:03 GMT -5
Not sure if it changes much in terms of trade negotiations but Crochet has said he wants an extension and does not want to go back to the pen this year. Might make him a more attractive trade target if he signed to something semi team friendly for 5-6 years vs the 2.5 he's got left of control before FA.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jul 25, 2024 15:54:26 GMT -5
Not sure if it changes much in terms of trade negotiations but Crochet has said he wants an extension and does not want to go back to the pen this year. Might make him a more attractive trade target if he signed to something semi team friendly for 5-6 years vs the 2.5 he's got left of control before FA. I’d actually agree but still would have to be calculated, like okay Abreu, Campbell and whoever else not part of the big 3. But that would be very unlikely
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Post by rkarp on Jul 25, 2024 16:03:25 GMT -5
of course the Dodgers will want to capitalize on Paxton's value, but all things being equal I would think they send him to an AL team. I seem to recall Paxton preferring Seattle before LA came calling. I thought he liked it here however, and would entertain trading for him and also signing him for next season
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shagworthy
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My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,844
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Post by shagworthy on Jul 25, 2024 16:11:17 GMT -5
“White Sox outfielder Tommy Pham is another former Sox player who could fit. ” — And who leaves the roster to make room? This one feels like a non-starter. Also, neither Yorke nor Sogard are on the 40-man, so a move would need to be made there to call up either of those players; DFAing Westbrook seems the cleanest. Anticipate at least one (internal) bullpen move before Friday night. Sorry, maybe it's personal preference, but I'm a no thank you on Pham. Dude is a headcase who wants to be a professional boxer more than a ballplayer. I don't want to add anyone who could bring that kind of negativity into a young, impressionable, and by all accounts fun clubhouse.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,844
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Post by shagworthy on Jul 25, 2024 16:15:41 GMT -5
Ronnie Lott is somewhere in the Bay Area listening to sports talk radio and shaking his head in disgust at that IL trip. and meanwhile an Olympic field hockey player amputated his finger from the tip to the first knuckle so he could play after a freak accident.
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Post by melvinhoggs on Jul 25, 2024 16:20:02 GMT -5
“White Sox outfielder Tommy Pham is another former Sox player who could fit. ” — And who leaves the roster to make room? This one feels like a non-starter. Also, neither Yorke nor Sogard are on the 40-man, so a move would need to be made there to call up either of those players; DFAing Westbrook seems the cleanest. Anticipate at least one (internal) bullpen move before Friday night. Sorry, maybe it's personal preference, but I'm a no thank you on Pham. Dude is a headcase who wants to be a professional boxer more than a ballplayer. I don't want to add anyone who could bring that kind of negativity into a young, impressionable, and by all accounts fun clubhouse. I mean, no personal preferences needed (though you're entitled to those, too) – Pham just isn't very good. He hasn't been good for like 6 years. He's a worse, older version of Refsnyder. This is not the RH help the Red Sox are looking for.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 25, 2024 16:22:33 GMT -5
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Post by melvinhoggs on Jul 25, 2024 16:26:28 GMT -5
That better be Justin Steele as one of the "others" going back to the Sox...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2024 16:26:57 GMT -5
I would hope that Teel isnt used to get Taillon. Taillon is okay and having a good year this season but he's up one year and down the next. I'm not sure the Cubs have enough "and others" to make me part with their top 5. I know Wong is having a nice season but I'd take Teel's future over his.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 25, 2024 16:28:42 GMT -5
I feel like if the Red Sox traded Teel for Taillon, the Cubs would also have to throw in a prospect as good as Teel to get it done.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 25, 2024 16:28:54 GMT -5
Hard pass from me on giving up Teel in a theoretical deal for taillon unless the Cubs are adding quite a bit back in return.
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Post by rkarp on Jul 25, 2024 16:29:05 GMT -5
RS should want to make some moves to compete this year and beyond, but for me, Mayer, Anthony and Tell are off the table for any deal other than a blockbuster, and Taillon is not that
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finaliz3d
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Post by finaliz3d on Jul 25, 2024 16:30:13 GMT -5
I don't think there's any way that Teel goes to the Cubs in a Tailon trade unless like they get like Cade Horton in the trade which would be stupid for the Cubs to do.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,844
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Post by shagworthy on Jul 25, 2024 16:30:15 GMT -5
I would hope that Teel isnt used to get Taillon. Taillon is okay and having a good year this season but he's up one year and down the next. I'm not sure the Cubs have enough "and others" to make me part with their top 5. I know Wong is having a nice season but I'd take Teel's future over his. Taillon feels a bit Sunny Grayish to me. Performs ok when not in the spotlight of the AL East, but can't hack it when he is put under the bright lights. There are worse gets, but I'm not sure I'd give up Teel, who next year would be the perfect replacement for the CarJacker at cheaper dollars for Taillon. If it could be Lugo, Yorke, and take your pick from 14-30, I'm down, otherwise I politely decline.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2024 16:42:01 GMT -5
I feel like if the Red Sox traded Teel for Taillon, the Cubs would also have to throw in a prospect as good as Teel to get it done. You'd be disappointed because if the Cubs were trading away a prospect as equally as good as Teel theyd be giving Taillon away for nothing. It would probably be a RH bat or a relief pitcher.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 25, 2024 16:47:44 GMT -5
I feel like if the Red Sox traded Teel for Taillon, the Cubs would also have to throw in a prospect as good as Teel to get it done. You'd be disappointed because if the Cubs were trading away a prospect as equally as good as Teel theyd be giving Taillon away for nothing. It would probably be a RH bat or a relief pitcher. Thats the point is that Taillon isn’t really worth anything more than his contract
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 25, 2024 16:48:23 GMT -5
Taillon does not have significant trade value on that contract, whatever else the Sox got in that trade would be the real prize
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 25, 2024 16:51:40 GMT -5
You'd be disappointed because if the Cubs were trading away a prospect as equally as good as Teel theyd be giving Taillon away for nothing. It would probably be a RH bat or a relief pitcher. Thats the point is that Taillon isn’t really worth anything more than his contract He's "worth" more than that. He having a good season and has a track record of throwing innings (not an overwhelming amount- it is the 2020s after all). That means, with a lot of teams needing starting pitching, that the Cubs should do well in a trade for him. Let them sucker somebody else, not the Red Sox if any if their top 5 would need to be involved.
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Post by rkarp on Jul 25, 2024 17:03:24 GMT -5
Thats the point is that Taillon isn’t really worth anything more than his contract He's "worth" more than that. He having a good season and has a track record of throwing innings (not an overwhelming amount- it is the 2020s after all). That means, with a lot of teams needing starting pitching, that the Cubs should do well in a trade for him. Let them sucker somebody else, not the Red Sox if any if their top 5 would need to be involved. while I agree with you that he does have value, his contract has that value in the mid to back teens imo. sure, someone could overpay, but not a top 30 prospect like Teel
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