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8/26-8/29 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
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Post by sxfan on Aug 26, 2024 23:13:54 GMT -5
If you’re going to go that route then trade him and get prospects that will line up with the timeline of Mayer Anthony Teel and Campbell. As you said his skill set doesn’t age well. If this team isn’t contending then they don’t “need” his skill set. His value that he brings is why you might look at him and see if you could get an excellent return from a team who is desperate to make the World Series. I’m not sure you could get a Soto/Padres-Nationals trade return but you could get an excellent amount back for sure. There isn’t a need to do it, however, you’re more or less committing to going year to year on him and then getting into a bidding war. The timeline of Mayer/Anthony/Teel/Campbell? You mean like... possibly next year? Trading Duran is truly incomprehensible to me. I've been less bullish on the Red Sox in the short term than some, but they're closer to contention than you're implying (at least closer to "confident contention" or whatever you want to call not scrounging and scraping for a possible WC3). They have a breakout star for four more of his prime years before he gets deeper into his 30s. The team is not some White Sox or Rockies level dumpster fire. The argument for trading him is just bad. Yeah it would take a special trade, block buster to trade Duran. Kirby is the only guy who fits the narrative. I'm not sure if anyone else is worth trading Duran for. He's one of the 20 best players in the sport this year. Who cares if the Sox don't extend him? Probably better off that they don't with the speed part declining, but you still have that great 3 year window with him and a QO pick.
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Post by samb on Aug 27, 2024 0:32:23 GMT -5
I don't think Cora is to blame at all for this season. The team just does not have enough talent (especially on the pitching side). This season would have been mega different if we kept Sale & did not low ball Imanaga, but that is on Breslow not Cora.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Aug 27, 2024 0:41:55 GMT -5
I don't think Cora is to blame at all for this season. The team just does not have enough talent (especially on the pitching side). This season would have been mega different if we kept Sale & did not low ball Imanaga, but that is on Breslow not Cora. This sentiment, coupled with the constant “Cora got the absolute best out of this team for months, no one could have done what Cora has done with this team,” takes makes my head explode. Our fearless leader cannot fail, he can only be failed. Seriously, I don’t think he’s the main problem, but I do think that what Incandenza pointed out earlier is worthwhile to examine. Every single season, we have collapsed to varying degrees in the second half. Would be a good idea for the Red Sox to find out why. Fatigued pitching this year, sure. But what else?
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 27, 2024 0:43:18 GMT -5
I don't think Cora is to blame at all for this season. The team just does not have enough talent (especially on the pitching side). This season would have been mega different if we kept Sale & did not low ball Imanaga, but that is on Breslow not Cora. It irks me people keep on reflecting on how Sale shouldn’t have been traded. Dude made something like 20 starts in 3-4 years? Breslow did a fine job at the time of extracting value out of him. Does it sting now? Of course. But I hate the retrospect constantly being brought up by many. With Imanaga, that’s not a Breslow problem, that’s a Henry problem.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 27, 2024 0:44:50 GMT -5
I don't think Cora is to blame at all for this season. The team just does not have enough talent (especially on the pitching side). This season would have been mega different if we kept Sale & did not low ball Imanaga, but that is on Breslow not Cora. This sentiment, coupled with the constant “Cora got the absolute best out of this team for months, no one could have done what Cora has done with this team,” takes makes my head explode. Our fearless leader cannot fail, he can only be failed. Seriously, I don’t think he’s the main problem, but I do think that what Incandenza pointed out earlier is worthwhile to examine. Every single season, we have collapsed to varying degrees in the second half. Would be a good idea for the Red Sox to find out why. Fatigued pitching this year, sure. But what else? Poor roster construction and injuries. As a manager, sure, Cora should shoulder some blame. But I don’t buy the trend that Cora is the fundamental issue here.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Aug 27, 2024 0:48:30 GMT -5
This sentiment, coupled with the constant “Cora got the absolute best out of this team for months, no one could have done what Cora has done with this team,” takes makes my head explode. Our fearless leader cannot fail, he can only be failed. Seriously, I don’t think he’s the main problem, but I do think that what Incandenza pointed out earlier is worthwhile to examine. Every single season, we have collapsed to varying degrees in the second half. Would be a good idea for the Red Sox to find out why. Fatigued pitching this year, sure. But what else? Poor roster construction and injuries. As a manager, sure, Cora should shoulder some blame. But I don’t buy the trend that Cora is the fundamental issue here. No, I agree there’s much bigger issues. Perfectly average bullpen pitchers becoming horrible as soon as we trade for them is one. Starters who haven’t pitched this much before, another. Relying on TON as a righty bat, another. But with all the disgusting defensive mistakes and brain farts, and the late season dives, the coaching staff has to be questioned eventually
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Post by keninten on Aug 27, 2024 0:50:17 GMT -5
Does anything or anyone ever piss Cora off?
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 27, 2024 0:52:18 GMT -5
Poor roster construction and injuries. As a manager, sure, Cora should shoulder some blame. But I don’t buy the trend that Cora is the fundamental issue here. No, I agree there’s much bigger issues. Perfectly average bullpen pitchers becoming horrible as soon as we trade for them is one. Starters who haven’t pitched this much before, another. Relying on TON as a righty bat, another. But with all the disgusting defensive mistakes and brain farts, and the late season dives, the coaching staff has to be questioned eventually And as they should. But I think a big theme this year is burnout particularly with the pitchers. Too much trying to hedge bets that Crawford and Houck would hold up long term without bringing in proper workhorses to back them up. Same goes for some of the bullpen. Expecting Slaten who’s a rookie and Martin who’s basically 40 years old to hold up over the long run was a gamble. Definitely some training and conditioning changes need to be made as well as just simply making ballsy trades and FA agent signings that are essentially sure shots. EDIT: I’ll give Breslow the pass this season on why it was constructed this way. He was clearly working with budgetary restrictions and trying to rub 2 pennies together to make a dollar. But the way they have prospect capital now, there’s basically no excuse he should be adding legitimate value to the big league roster this offseason no matter how tight Henry’s wallet is.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 27, 2024 5:53:39 GMT -5
No, I agree there’s much bigger issues. Perfectly average bullpen pitchers becoming horrible as soon as we trade for them is one. Starters who haven’t pitched this much before, another. Relying on TON as a righty bat, another. But with all the disgusting defensive mistakes and brain farts, and the late season dives, the coaching staff has to be questioned eventually And as they should. But I think a big theme this year is burnout particularly with the pitchers. Too much trying to hedge bets that Crawford and Houck would hold up long term without bringing in proper workhorses to back them up. Same goes for some of the bullpen. Expecting Slaten who’s a rookie and Martin who’s basically 40 years old to hold up over the long run was a gamble. Definitely some training and conditioning changes need to be made as well as just simply making ballsy trades and FA agent signings that are essentially sure shots. EDIT: I’ll give Breslow the pass this season on why it was constructed this way. He was clearly working with budgetary restrictions and trying to rub 2 pennies together to make a dollar. But the way they have prospect capital now, there’s basically no excuse he should be adding legitimate value to the big league roster this offseason no mattehr how tight Henry’s wallet is. If Henry's wallet is still tight after missing the post season 5 years out of 6, and they must stay below the luxury tax line, then he should sell the team to a deep pocketed owner who will make the Red Sox his number 1 priority, like Henry used to, before the Sox were just a property in an expanding portfolio.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 27, 2024 6:52:34 GMT -5
And as they should. But I think a big theme this year is burnout particularly with the pitchers. Too much trying to hedge bets that Crawford and Houck would hold up long term without bringing in proper workhorses to back them up. Same goes for some of the bullpen. Expecting Slaten who’s a rookie and Martin who’s basically 40 years old to hold up over the long run was a gamble. Definitely some training and conditioning changes need to be made as well as just simply making ballsy trades and FA agent signings that are essentially sure shots. EDIT: I’ll give Breslow the pass this season on why it was constructed this way. He was clearly working with budgetary restrictions and trying to rub 2 pennies together to make a dollar. But the way they have prospect capital now, there’s basically no excuse he should be adding legitimate value to the big league roster this offseason no mattehr how tight Henry’s wallet is. If Henry's wallet is still tight after missing the post season 5 years out of 6, and they must stay below the luxury tax line, then he should sell the team to a deep pocketed owner who will make the Red Sox his number 1 priority, like Henry used to, before the Sox were just a property in an expanding portfolio. Not to mention having at least 40 million off the books. In theory, they should be able to buy Burnes and Soto and still not be top 3 in spending. At the very least they need to walk away with one of those guys. There's zero excuse. I would sign Soto and flip Roman Anthony for Garrett Crochet. They'd be maybe just at or just under the luxury tax. Give him 13/500 with an opt out at his age 29 season.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 27, 2024 7:00:37 GMT -5
If Henry's wallet is still tight after missing the post season 5 years out of 6, and they must stay below the luxury tax line, then he should sell the team to a deep pocketed owner who will make the Red Sox his number 1 priority, like Henry used to, before the Sox were just a property in an expanding portfolio. Not to mention having at least 40 million off the books. In theory, they should be able to buy Burnes and Soto and still not be top 3 in spending. At the very least they need to walk away with one of those guys. There's zero excuse. I would sign Soto and flip Roman Anthony for Garrett Crochet. They'd be maybe just at or just under the luxury tax. Give him 13/500 with an opt out at his age 29 season. To each their own but this succession of transactions sounds like about the last thing I would want the Sox to do this offseason. Definitely would not trade Anthony for 2 years of Crochet and I don't really want to be giving Soto that type of contract.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Aug 27, 2024 7:56:32 GMT -5
Red Sox are activating Rich Hill - the Calvary’s here!
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Post by carmenfanzone on Aug 27, 2024 9:02:49 GMT -5
Just read that their record is 2 games worse than last year. Hard to believe. Since they do not appear like they ar going to make the playoffs - again- it may be time to hope they fall behind other teams like the Tigers, Mariners and Rays so thy can get better draft picks. Very disappointing.
In addition to the roster overhaul they need, I agree with those who say they need to look closely at why all the late season collapses.The training, medical and nutrition aspects all need to be reviewed. I know other teams are also having a lot of injuries, but they need to do everything possible to give their players the best chance to stay on the field and to not fade in the second half.. Seems like they have a lot of hamstring injuries and I don't ever remember another player with the type of injury Casas had..
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 27, 2024 9:44:44 GMT -5
Just read that their record is 2 games worse than last year. Hard to believe. Since they do not appear like they ar going to make the playoffs - again- it may be time to hope they fall behind other teams like the Tigers, Mariners and Rays so thy can get better draft picks. Very disappointing. In addition to the roster overhaul they need, I agree with those who say they need to look closely at why all the late season collapses.The training, medical and nutrition aspects all need to be reviewed. I know other teams are also having a lot of injuries, but they need to do everything possible to give their players the best chance to stay on the field and to not fade in the second half.. Seems like they have a lot of hamstring injuries and I don't ever remember another player with the type of injury Casas had.. This year per fangraphs they have the 11th best position player WAR and 14th best pitching WAR. Through 8/27/23 they were 17th in position player WAR and 19th in pitching WAR, and we know how poorly the last month of the season went so their finishes were even worse than that. They have improved this year and I would even say they’ve improved substantially, but a couple of things that don’t show up on the WAR leaderboard are timing related. The Red Sox have been horrible with RISP the whole year (and no, that is not predictive of future results) and their bullpen has found every possible way to lose (shows up more in WPA). Weaknesses in the lineup were 2B (28th in fWAR), C (25th), and 1B (22nd). Casas will take care of the 1B issue, and hopefully some combo of Story/Campbell/Grissom can remedy 2B. Catcher is a tough call because Cora seems to love Wong, but xwOBA says he’s a well below average hitter getting lucky this year and he’s been horrible defensively. I’m hoping they bring DJ back and ship Wong out for a reliever, but not holding my breath.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 27, 2024 9:56:55 GMT -5
I don't think Cora is to blame at all for this season. The team just does not have enough talent (especially on the pitching side). This season would have been mega different if we kept Sale & did not low ball Imanaga, but that is on Breslow not Cora. This sentiment, coupled with the constant “Cora got the absolute best out of this team for months, no one could have done what Cora has done with this team,” takes makes my head explode. Our fearless leader cannot fail, he can only be failed. Seriously, I don’t think he’s the main problem, but I do think that what Incandenza pointed out earlier is worthwhile to examine. Every single season, we have collapsed to varying degrees in the second half. Would be a good idea for the Red Sox to find out why. Fatigued pitching this year, sure. But what else? While it does have merit, you also have to look at the talent on this roster every single year. Even 2021 they tailed off but were still good enough to almost win. Other than 2021, the era of 2019-2024 had subpar rosters. You can still get the most out of your team and have that team collapse when expectations are being put on them, manager included. So while Cora did in my opinion a really good job with this roster, he has at times wilted under those expectations, thus every July they start to falter. At some point, they need to pick a direction, because if it wasn’t for the top 4 prospects they have coming to the show shortly, they would be the textbook definition of a treadmill team. Not good enough to win, not bad enough to bottom out, they at least have help on the horizon. But they need to spend if they want to contend. I’m also not sure that Imanaga wanted to come here, so I could see maybe a logical reason as to why they low balled him, I guess. The Teoscar stuff baffled me then and baffles me now. But at the end, while they needed another bat, the outfield turned out to be solid.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 27, 2024 9:59:30 GMT -5
If Henry's wallet is still tight after missing the post season 5 years out of 6, and they must stay below the luxury tax line, then he should sell the team to a deep pocketed owner who will make the Red Sox his number 1 priority, like Henry used to, before the Sox were just a property in an expanding portfolio. Not to mention having at least 40 million off the books. In theory, they should be able to buy Burnes and Soto and still not be top 3 in spending. At the very least they need to walk away with one of those guys. There's zero excuse. I would sign Soto and flip Roman Anthony for Garrett Crochet. They'd be maybe just at or just under the luxury tax. Give him 13/500 with an opt out at his age 29 season. I hate to be the guy to tell you that this probably won’t happen. But yeah, probably not going to happen. The only team I can see Soto leaving the Yankees for is the Mets, who the Sox will not get into a bidding war with. He wants to be in NYC.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 27, 2024 10:16:47 GMT -5
This sentiment, coupled with the constant “Cora got the absolute best out of this team for months, no one could have done what Cora has done with this team,” takes makes my head explode. Our fearless leader cannot fail, he can only be failed. Seriously, I don’t think he’s the main problem, but I do think that what Incandenza pointed out earlier is worthwhile to examine. Every single season, we have collapsed to varying degrees in the second half. Would be a good idea for the Red Sox to find out why. Fatigued pitching this year, sure. But what else? While it does have merit, you also have to look at the talent on this roster every single year. Even 2021 they tailed off but were still good enough to almost win. Other than 2021, the era of 2019-2024 had subpar rosters. You can still get the most out of your team and have that team collapse when expectations are being put on them, manager included. So while Cora did in my opinion a really good job with this roster, he has at times wilted under those expectations, thus every July they start to falter. At some point, they need to pick a direction, because if it wasn’t for the top 4 prospects they have coming to the show shortly, they would be the textbook definition of a treadmill team. Not good enough to win, not bad enough to bottom out, they at least have help on the horizon. But they need to spend if they want to contend. I’m also not sure that Imanaga wanted to come here, so I could see maybe a logical reason as to why they low balled him, I guess. The Teoscar stuff baffled me then and baffles me now. But at the end, while they needed another bat, the outfield turned out to be solid. Odd series of sentences. If the team is playing well through July, why would they start to "falter" just because of "expectations"? I don't even think this is the case, but if it were the case, how would it not be a complete indictment of Cora's managing if the team can't handle the pressure of success?
"At some point they need to pick a direction" - meaning what? They've been trying to win. Is the complaint still that they didn't shell out for Jordan Montgomery this past offseason?
"if it wasn't for the top 4 prospects they have coming to the show..." - First of all, yeah, it's kind of a big deal that they have 4 top-100 prospects in AAA right now. Second, how on earth do you not see progress in what they've already done this season? Between Duran, Casas, Hamilton, Rafaela, Abreu, Wong, Houck, Crawford, and Slaten, they've got young players all over the major league roster taking steps forward. This is the least treadmillish this team has been in years.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 27, 2024 11:13:54 GMT -5
Not to mention having at least 40 million off the books. In theory, they should be able to buy Burnes and Soto and still not be top 3 in spending. At the very least they need to walk away with one of those guys. There's zero excuse. I would sign Soto and flip Roman Anthony for Garrett Crochet. They'd be maybe just at or just under the luxury tax. Give him 13/500 with an opt out at his age 29 season. To each their own but this succession of transactions sounds like about the last thing I would want the Sox to do this offseason. Definitely would not trade Anthony for 2 years of Crochet and I don't really want to be giving Soto that type of contract. There's a very low possibility that Roman will be as good as Soto. I LOVE the player, but Soto makes him a bit redundant and Crochet has 2 years of term so plenty of time to work out an extension. Soto is just turning 26 so a 13 year deal gets him to 39. It's not like he has a history of injuries either. The Dodgers gave Mookie 12 year $365,000,000 contract when he was 28 and so far there's been no regrets. The last few years won't be fun, but by then 38 million will be the going rate for star players anyways. I can't think of a better player to offer that kind of contract to. If Roman reaches Soto's level by some miracle, would you want them to let him walk at age 27? I think Soto is exactly the guy you've saved up your resources for. I'd be ecstatic with splurging on a young, HoF bat and trading a blue chip prospect for a front-line starter. But I'm also happy if they sign Burnes. There's no reason for them to not acquire either guy. They have the resources. In reality, they have the resources for both, but I'm really just setting my expectation to just 1 guy. Both are going to get a stupid contract. The Red Sox have to be willing to give out a few of those.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 27, 2024 11:17:29 GMT -5
Not to mention having at least 40 million off the books. In theory, they should be able to buy Burnes and Soto and still not be top 3 in spending. At the very least they need to walk away with one of those guys. There's zero excuse. I would sign Soto and flip Roman Anthony for Garrett Crochet. They'd be maybe just at or just under the luxury tax. Give him 13/500 with an opt out at his age 29 season. I hate to be the guy to tell you that this probably won’t happen. But yeah, probably not going to happen. The only team I can see Soto leaving the Yankees for is the Mets, who the Sox will not get into a bidding war with. He wants to be in NYC. David Price absolutely did not want to be in Boston and the Red Sox offered him too much money to turn down. I guess it comes down to how far either are willing to go. I can't imagine the Yankees or Mets can afford him at such a high number, but maybe I'm wrong. They're both currently the 1st and 2nd highest spending teams in baseball.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 27, 2024 11:37:11 GMT -5
Not to mention having at least 40 million off the books. In theory, they should be able to buy Burnes and Soto and still not be top 3 in spending. At the very least they need to walk away with one of those guys. There's zero excuse. I would sign Soto and flip Roman Anthony for Garrett Crochet. They'd be maybe just at or just under the luxury tax. Give him 13/500 with an opt out at his age 29 season. To each their own but this succession of transactions sounds like about the last thing I would want the Sox to do this offseason. Definitely would not trade Anthony for 2 years of Crochet and I don't really want to be giving Soto that type of contract. Spend a ton of money? Sure. Trade a prospect that has all star if not superstar written on his forehead for Crochet? No thanks. Let the kids develop and play. It's their best way out of this mess. Buy the pitching and hope by the time the expensive pitching markedly declines that they finally have good young pitching in the pipeline ready to step in. These young cheap stars in the making the Sox having coming up should afford them the ability to do this, along with money coming off the books, and the ability to play with the big market big boys if they choose to do so. Rereading your post you're suggesting they outbid for Soto to make Anthony expendable and acquire Crochet. I think Crochet could be really good but he has an injury history and a short track record of success. I'd really hate to sacrifice Anthony for that. I see the logic of it. I mean Anthony in a deal for Skubal, yeah, although the issue you'd have Soto on the books fir 500 million and then have to give another 200 million to keep the acquired starter of he doesnt leave. I dont see Soto leaving. My gut is that he stays with the Yankees.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 27, 2024 12:03:35 GMT -5
To each their own but this succession of transactions sounds like about the last thing I would want the Sox to do this offseason. Definitely would not trade Anthony for 2 years of Crochet and I don't really want to be giving Soto that type of contract. There's a very low possibility that Roman will be as good as Soto. I LOVE the player, but Soto makes him a bit redundant and Crochet has 2 years of term so plenty of time to work out an extension. Soto is just turning 26 so a 13 year deal gets him to 39. It's not like he has a history of injuries either. The Dodgers gave Mookie 12 year $365,000,000 contract when he was 28 and so far there's been no regrets. The last few years won't be fun, but by then 38 million will be the going rate for star players anyways. I can't think of a better player to offer that kind of contract to. If Roman reaches Soto's level by some miracle, would you want them to let him walk at age 27? I think Soto is exactly the guy you've saved up your resources for. I'd be ecstatic with splurging on a young, HoF bat and trading a blue chip prospect for a front-line starter. But I'm also happy if they sign Burnes. There's no reason for them to not acquire either guy. They have the resources. In reality, they have the resources for both, but I'm really just setting my expectation to just 1 guy. Both are going to get a stupid contract. The Red Sox have to be willing to give out a few of those. I'm not saying that I'd get upset at adding Soto, it's not my money but I still don't like the thought of sinking another huge contract into a LHH slugger who could very well be better suited to DH sooner than later. Would rather they spread the money around to pitching, I think they're going to be fine for hitters for the next chunk of seasons.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 27, 2024 12:06:23 GMT -5
Boston playoff chances 14.5. Seattle 20.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Aug 27, 2024 12:24:38 GMT -5
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Post by Foulke_In_Athol on Aug 27, 2024 12:27:04 GMT -5
Could part of the problem be that we haven't drafted a top tier pitcher in more than a decade, if you exclude the Jay Groom and Trey Ball flops its longer. Even with the emergence of Houck, Bello and Crawford if you dont have those big bodied, elite stuff horses you're more likely to fade down the stretch.Or have quality fill in depth. Perhaps the drafting strategy for many years of focusing on raw middle infield prospects has its downside, especially if they want to depend on their farm system so much and avoid longer contracts to injury risk pitchers.
They have got to spend their money on the top of the market pitchers. The strategy was to draft and develope top level, up the middle position players then trade any surplus for or pay for Free Agent top end pitching.... Only they havent traded or signed these pitchers since David Price if you write Sale off because of injury. Maybe the fact that the talent in the pipeline is so lopsided towards hitters it leads to really streaky MLB teams.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 27, 2024 12:35:59 GMT -5
To each their own but this succession of transactions sounds like about the last thing I would want the Sox to do this offseason. Definitely would not trade Anthony for 2 years of Crochet and I don't really want to be giving Soto that type of contract. Spend a ton of money? Sure. Trade a prospect that has all star if not superstar written on his forehead for Crochet? No thanks. Let the kids develop and play. It's their best way out of this mess. Buy the pitching and hope by the time the expensive pitching markedly declines that they finally have good young pitching in the pipeline ready to step in. These young cheap stars in the making the Sox having coming up should afford them the ability to do this, along with money coming off the books, and the ability to play with the big market big boys if they choose to do so. Rereading your post you're suggesting they outbid for Soto to make Anthony expendable and acquire Crochet. I think Crochet could be really good but he has an injury history and a short track record of success. I'd really hate to sacrifice Anthony for that. I see the logic of it. I mean Anthony in a deal for Skubal, yeah, although the issue you'd have Soto on the books fir 500 million and then have to give another 200 million to keep the acquired starter of he doesnt leave. I dont see Soto leaving. My gut is that he stays with the Yankees. He was the best I could think of off the top of my head that was young, but Skubal would be better. Even with the 500+200 they won't be very far over the luxury tax. It is a pipedream though. Red Sox should be at least where the Astros are in terms of spending and they have a ton of money coming off the books. I'm not worried about 1 mega deal and 1 pricey guy, but with this ownership group I probably should be. Mets − $305,624,274 Yankees − $303,322,047 Dodgers − $249,823,654 Phillies − $243,476,617 Astros − $236,524,482 Rangers − $223,355,753 Blue Jays − $221,862,600 Braves − $217,290,000 Cubs − $213,020,500 Giants − $211,044,828 Cardinals − $179,553,567 Red Sox − $176,458,748
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