SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
8/30-9/1 Red Sox @ Tigers Series Thread
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 15:01:05 GMT -5
Just FYI - KC and Minn both behind mid games.
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
|
Post by shagworthy on Sept 1, 2024 15:01:20 GMT -5
I keep waiting for the finger pointers to settle on the Chris Sale trade and it never happens. That was like a seven win hit to the team right there. You could argue the original sin of this season was that they just underestimated their own talent. Sale would have been useful for a team that was trying to win this season. Schrieber also would have been useful for a team trying to win this season (like, say, the Royals). And even if Grissom was meant to help them this year, Hamilton has turned out to be much better. That's been their original sin for many a year, who can forget when they torpedoed Swihart's career when his value was at it's apex? They always love their own to the point of delusion.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Sept 1, 2024 15:02:14 GMT -5
So they initiated this clever "don't come to the ballpark early and stop having hitter's meetings" gambit and the bats immediately went dead? Hmm... That was after the offense started to fall off a cliff not. Before
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,597
|
Post by asm18 on Sept 1, 2024 15:02:24 GMT -5
I keep waiting for the finger pointers to settle on the Chris Sale trade and it never happens. That was like a seven win hit to the team right there. That would require folks acknowledging that Sale was still a really good pitcher when they traded him, but who happened to have the shittiest injury luck in the world. Feels like it’s not mentioned enough that even if the Braves didn’t extend him, Sale’s “Top 10 in Cy Young” Vesting Club Option would have kicked in because of his success this season and Atlanta would have him next year anyway - which was negotiated by the Red Sox into his deal for that scenario exactly…
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Sept 1, 2024 15:02:39 GMT -5
The Sale trade was obviously awful results wise but at least I can follow the process. I still think they should’ve had another pitcher signed but that’s sort of a different thing. It’s reminiscent of the Renfroe for JBJ deal where they just didn’t really fill in the roster spot well enough, even though it was doable.
Pulling Criswell mid perfect game given the state of the bullpen feels more inexplicable
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Sept 1, 2024 15:02:44 GMT -5
People complaining about the Chris Sale trade definitely expected him to pitch 180 innings this year and win a Cy Young. Definitely. Which he has not done since like 2018!
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 15:02:44 GMT -5
Hoping Vaughn Grissom would be useful didn't help. I've still got decent hopes on grissom. The trade is certainly an L in terms of this season but lots of time left for grissom to turn it around. I think a Hamilton grissom platoon at 2nd next year could provide good value while allowing Campbell and Mayer to continue their development as necessary. Haven't fully given up on him. Lost year which stinks, but the more concerning part is the lack of reps defensively. 23 games MLB (22 games started at 2B) 39 Worcester (29 games started at 2B) His bat has been awful and he was known as a butcher in the field before this year.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,478
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Sept 1, 2024 15:03:23 GMT -5
You could argue the original sin of this season was that they just underestimated their own talent. Sale would have been useful for a team that was trying to win this season. Schrieber also would have been useful for a team trying to win this season (like, say, the Royals). And even if Grissom was meant to help them this year, Hamilton has turned out to be much better. We keep gearing up for our “window”, the “big 4”, etc… meanwhile, seasons slip away; there’s literally no juggernaut team this season. Why wait until we can field a 95-100 game winner… no one’s going to win 100 games this season. I feel like the higher ups didn't really believe in the team and wanted to continue to bridge and not allocate long term resources this offseason. I would hope that now with the big 4 one step from Boston they'll be more willing to spend to get this team over the hump but until that actually happens who knows if they will or not.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 15:04:30 GMT -5
Once more - blah.
|
|
|
Post by greenmonster on Sept 1, 2024 15:05:30 GMT -5
Just FYI - KC and Minn both behind mid games. might want to look in the rear view mirror "objects are closer than they appear"....Detroit & Seattle
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Sept 1, 2024 15:05:48 GMT -5
I keep waiting for the finger pointers to settle on the Chris Sale trade and it never happens. That was like a seven win hit to the team right there. You could argue the original sin of this season was that they just underestimated their own talent. Sale would have been useful for a team that was trying to win this season. Schrieber also would have been useful for a team trying to win this season (like, say, the Royals). And even if Grissom was meant to help them this year, Hamilton has turned out to be much better. Schreiber looks like the exact same guy he was last year which meh
The Sale trade was the triple whammy of the guy we traded wildly exceeding expectations, the guy we got hugely underperforming, and the hole we were filling turning into a logjam full if palatable options.
|
|
asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,597
|
Post by asm18 on Sept 1, 2024 15:06:00 GMT -5
People complaining about the Chris Sale trade definitely expected him to pitch 180 innings this year and win a Cy Young. Definitely. I thought he was gonna give 150 innings of low to mid 3.00 ERA - but me and Alex Anthopoulos were stranded by ourselves here on Chris Sale Island. He looked AWESOME at points last year - I get they didn’t want to play Russian Roulette with his body, but man the talent never left
|
|
|
Post by dirtdog on Sept 1, 2024 15:06:11 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 15:06:26 GMT -5
At the very least you knew the Dodgers and Yankees were very good teams. The Astros have been surging and have given you problems. The Rockies was just terrible because they are a very bad team and was a chance to maintain some ground and confidence. But after getting swept by the Dodgers and blowing games late, the went 1-3 at home to the lowly Rockies, one of which was another blown save and the other was a 20 run walloping. Then proceeded to lose to the Yankees 2 out of 3. This was during a time when there were dreams of catching the Yankees. This was the most critical stretch I think. I'd be curious if their deadline moves would have been any different if they went 6-3 against the Dodgers, Rockies and Yankees. Granted they then went 6-3 against the Mariners, Rangers and Royals, but damage was done. Agree mostly except I don't think the Yankees are really a very good team, they get helium from the National media all the time, but that is as flawed a team as any, and this isn't just the Red Sox fan in me talking, that team doesn't go far in the playoffs unless they have extreme luck, or bad officiating on their side (Think WWE type scripting). I'm curious how this vaunted offense holds up when the weather gets cold. I feel like that's why they've been struggling in October. Their biggest strength gets neutralized.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 15:09:10 GMT -5
We keep gearing up for our “window”, the “big 4”, etc… meanwhile, seasons slip away; there’s literally no juggernaut team this season. Why wait until we can field a 95-100 game winner… no one’s going to win 100 games this season. I feel like the higher ups didn't really believe in the team and wanted to continue to bridge and not allocate long term resources this offseason. I would hope that now with the big 4 one step from Boston they'll be more willing to spend to get this team over the hump but until that actually happens who knows if they will or not. I'm very worried about Mayer in this big 4. Troy Tulowitzki vibes. Which is still very good, but can't help if you can't play.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,478
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Sept 1, 2024 15:10:55 GMT -5
I feel like the higher ups didn't really believe in the team and wanted to continue to bridge and not allocate long term resources this offseason. I would hope that now with the big 4 one step from Boston they'll be more willing to spend to get this team over the hump but until that actually happens who knows if they will or not. I'm very worried about Mayer in this big 4. Troy Tulowitzki vibes. Which is still very good, but can't help if you can't play. Between story, Mayer, Campbell, Hamilton, grissom and even rafaela I feel relatively confident that they'll get better production at SS/2nd next year then the previous few but maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment and being a fool.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 1, 2024 15:11:46 GMT -5
You could argue the original sin of this season was that they just underestimated their own talent. Sale would have been useful for a team that was trying to win this season. Schrieber also would have been useful for a team trying to win this season (like, say, the Royals). And even if Grissom was meant to help them this year, Hamilton has turned out to be much better. We keep gearing up for our “window”, the “big 4”, etc… meanwhile, seasons slip away; there’s literally no juggernaut team this season. Why wait until we can field a 95-100 game winner… no one’s going to win 100 games this season. I've said it before, but there was such a weird sequence of events:
-mid-season 2023 the vibes were great about all the young talent finally coming up from the farm (Casas, Bello, Houck, Duran, Wong, etc.); much talk about how that offseason they were finally going to push some chips in
-then the team slumped for like 3 weeks and Bloom got fired -then they had this weird desultory offseason where they demonstrated no faith in the current roster
Where did the optimism go? Turns out this roster had a lot of talent! But they didn't do as much as they could to supplement it, and now we're a few games out of the wild card while Cora (recently extended!) oversees a late season collapse for the third straight season.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 15:15:43 GMT -5
"The big four" matters ONLY if they are as good in the majors as their promise. ONLY if they are healthy or stay healthy. ONLY if our pitching is effective and gives the team chances to win.
So the "Big Three" are Bello, Houck and Crawford - can they take another step forward? Can they go a bit deeper? Who in the mess of arms in the pen are going to end up reliable? Martin and Jansen are not spring chickens. There is very little help coming from the minors.
With so much mediocrity with the other teams, yet another bad trade deadline indicated lack of support or belief in this team - and here we are.
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 16,524
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2024 15:16:08 GMT -5
Again. Pitching moves dont mean shiz if our offense continues to sleepwalk Nobody disagrees that the offense has been awful lately. Maybe Criswell goes 8 and Jansen gives up 2 in the bottom of the 9th and they still lose. But when their offense is flat, it is incumbent upon the team that they dont give runs away with bad defense it stupid decision making. And they failed yet again in that regard. They beat themselves
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 1, 2024 15:16:47 GMT -5
First Tiger series win since 2017
|
|
|
Post by greenmonster on Sept 1, 2024 15:17:21 GMT -5
CORA: "Thats the way we drew it up"
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 15:20:54 GMT -5
So - being a slave to the plan and analytics means disengagement of the eyes and the brain? Pretty bad post game presser - Cora clearly on the defensive and didn't want to linger on his brain fart
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Sept 1, 2024 15:22:41 GMT -5
I mean honestly, it would be for the best to shut Devers down for the season. Clear as day his shoulders are not healthy and a few days “off” wont fix it. This team would not be going anywhere in the playoffs with Devers playing thru his shoulder injuries. Especially for a power hitter.
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 16,524
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2024 15:23:34 GMT -5
"Criswell did enough"
So 4 innings is "enough" these days when a guy is rolling?
All I got out of this was, "Cooper, even on your best day, we dont think you can get out a pocket of lefties the second time around the order, so take a seat"
|
|
shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
|
Post by shagworthy on Sept 1, 2024 15:25:02 GMT -5
First Tiger series win since 2017 Oof.
|
|
|