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Post by rasimon on Sept 10, 2024 13:55:24 GMT -5
Pff pass blocking grades
Name / pass grade / pass snaps / sacks / hits / hurries
MOnwenu / 83.6 / 29 / 0 / 0 / 0 DAndrews / 83.3 / 29 / 0 / 0 / 0 MJordan / 67.5 / 29 / 0 / 2 / 2 VLowe / 59.6 / 23 / 1 / 2 / 3 LRobinson/ 17.4 / 29 / 0 / 2 / 3 COkorafur/ 0.00 / 06 / 0 / 1 / 2
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Sept 10, 2024 14:02:13 GMT -5
shoutout to the jumpman for filling in admirably at LG
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Post by rasimon on Sept 10, 2024 14:13:53 GMT -5
Onwenu played RG in college. He is very very short for an OT although he has good weight, arm length, and hand size. So on the surface it kind of makes sense to keep him at guard long term. But he has been a very good at RT...One of the commentators (Bedard maybe?) said he came to camp heavier than expected. That may have motivated the Pats to move him back to OG until it became clear that their other options were not so good.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 10, 2024 14:44:13 GMT -5
Is it true PFF rated Gonzalez as one of the worst CB in football after week one when he held Chase to very little?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 10, 2024 14:44:54 GMT -5
Pff pass blocking grades Name / pass grade / pass snaps / sacks / hits / hurries MOnwenu / 83.6 / 29 / 0 / 0 / 0 DAndrews / 83.3 / 29 / 0 / 0 / 0 MJordan / 67.5 / 29 / 0 / 2 / 2 VLowe / 59.6 / 23 / 1 / 2 / 3 LRobinson/ 17.4 / 29 / 0 / 2 / 3 COkorafur/ 0.00 / 06 / 0 / 1 / 2 Can we get run blocking grades?
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 10, 2024 16:45:09 GMT -5
Is it true PFF rated Gonzalez as one of the worst CB in football after week one when he held Chase to very little? Yes he was, Jonathan Jones got second best grade..: they played a lot of zone so I’m wondering if that played a role in messing up grading.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 10, 2024 16:47:06 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 10, 2024 18:30:05 GMT -5
Is it true PFF rated Gonzalez as one of the worst CB in football after week one when he held Chase to very little? If true I shall now refer to them as Probably Freakin Fried
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Post by rasimon on Sept 10, 2024 18:36:33 GMT -5
Is it true PFF rated Gonzalez as one of the worst CB in football after week one when he held Chase to very little? Yes he was, Jonathan Jones got second best grade..: they played a lot of zone so I’m wondering if that played a role in messing up grading. Pff receiving and pass defense grades only grade actual targets. This is probably the weakest aspect of their system. Gonzalez was targetted three times resulting in three receptions albeit for for only 15 yards. While it does seem to undervalue a performances like Gonzalez's it would be hard to grade all the plays that a receiver or cornerback is not involved in. It might make sense to give a grade on a passing down where the player is not targetted and where it is clear the receiver seperated or did not seperate. But then you are making an assumption about what would have happened if the ball were thrown in their direction. And how about if a team chooses to run a lot. Should you give credit to the corner who gave up very few passing yards? They give a 0 receiving and cover grade (on -2 to 2 scale) for plays where the player is not targetted. But doing more than that seems like too much assumption. Pff also does not scale grades according to who the opponent is. They dont do that for any position. Over a full year in the NFL that should average out but for a single game it ignores context. It is relevant however when looking at college grades. If you are using pff grades to evaluate prospects you need to subjectively adjust for the level of competition. Here is a very nice explanation of pff grades and their strengths and weaknesses
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 10, 2024 22:34:34 GMT -5
Is it true PFF rated Gonzalez as one of the worst CB in football after week one when he held Chase to very little? If true I shall now refer to them as Probably Freakin Fried We know it's not perfect, this is about as extreme as it gets though. Wow and I do agree with post below it will improve with more games, but still, wow. We need another one, baseball is best because they have two pushing each other yearly.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 11, 2024 7:00:15 GMT -5
If true I shall now refer to them as Probably Freakin Fried We know it's not perfect, this is about as extreme as it gets though. Wow and I do agree with post below it will improve with more games, but still, wow. We need another one, baseball is best because they have two pushing each other yearly. There are some good ones that are position specific but lend themselves to fantasy football (Matt Harmon Reception Perception, Ray G receiver Trinity Score, QBKlass, etc.) I'm sure I've seen CB ones too. But it's tough to be comprehensive when so much has to come from film, watching 22 guys at a time.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 11, 2024 11:12:40 GMT -5
Is it not possible that neither Gonzalez nor Chase were good last week? I'm not being snarky,I don't know how it works. Like if he's just giving up on plays, running incorrect routes and dropping passes and Gonzalez is successful only because Chase is that bad on that day, how would that grade out?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 11, 2024 13:58:42 GMT -5
Is it not possible that neither Gonzalez nor Chase were good last week? I'm not being snarky,I don't know how it works. Like if he's just giving up on plays, running incorrect routes and dropping passes and Gonzalez is successful only because Chase is that bad on that day, how would that grade out? Given the game I watched and clips I watched on X that's not what happened. In your example, if Chase is getting open but dropping passes that's Gonzalez not playing well also. If Chase plays at half effort and Gonzalez blankets him all game, that's Gonzalez playing well. PFF is watching all plays grading each player, not taking the players he's covering or tackling into the grade. Which is a problem, as explained above it does kinda work itself out over a season. Yet not really well for a guy like Gonzalez that switches sides and is usually covering the teams best WR. Where as Bengals are doing everything they can to get Chase going against lesser players. Playing part man cover D and part Zone like Patriots love to do makes things even harder. Nevermind things like Jackson and Mapu last year playing high-low defense on Hill. Mapu blows the high Coverage thinking it's run, Jackson plays the low perfectly, but is left out to dry on the top and gets charged with TD. Why? He's closet guy to the ball, even though the mistake and blown coverage was clearly Mapu. PFF puts out grades really fast so they have hundreds of people quickly watching tape and it changes weekly, then it's supposedly checked by more qualified people. We don't know exactly what that means or how it's done. We do know it happens, Okorafor grade got changed for example. So a lot of this crazy variance seems to be how good the person grading and checking is at doing their job. Put this in perspective, they are grading each player, every play not just in NFL, but also all college players. The scope of that is just insane giving how quickly they do it. I've always looked at it like DRS in baseball, can be really bad/extreme in limited games, is usually decent to good over a whole season.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 11, 2024 20:04:08 GMT -5
Baldy Breakdowns always fire me up. Here he has a nice look at the Patriots OL in Week 1 (interestingly, PFF's #1 LB from Week 1 is shown, multiple times, getting washed out -- go figure):
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Post by rasimon on Sept 11, 2024 21:09:13 GMT -5
Is it not possible that neither Gonzalez nor Chase were good last week? I'm not being snarky,I don't know how it works. Like if he's just giving up on plays, running incorrect routes and dropping passes and Gonzalez is successful only because Chase is that bad on that day, how would that grade out? They could definitely both get bad grades on a play. Gonzalez gets burned by Chase but then Chase drops the ball. They would both get bad grades for that. I'm not sure if they can both get good grades on a particular play. Say Gonzalez is really tight on Chase. There is a contested catch situation. Only one of them can come down with the ball. Say Chase makes an incredible catch. Could Gonzalez still get a good grade or a neutral grade? Not sure.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 11, 2024 22:57:29 GMT -5
They could definitely both get bad grades on a play. Gonzalez gets burned by Chase but then Chase drops the ball. They would both get bad grades for that. I'm not sure if they can both get good grades on a particular play. Say Gonzalez is really tight on Chase. There is a contested catch situation. Only one of them can come down with the ball. Say Chase makes an incredible catch. Could Gonzalez still get a good grade or a neutral grade? Not sure. Safe to say we should all agree that, aside from some obvious performances, this system is not really that useful in SSS.
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Post by rasimon on Sept 12, 2024 9:13:05 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Sept 12, 2024 9:56:56 GMT -5
FWIW - Evan Washburn (CBS Sports) is reporting that Maye is getting "30% of the first team reps" during the week.
How exact/accurate that is remains to be seen (and we may never actually see/know until/unless the Patriots come out and say it). That being said, we probably need to ignore the normal/right way to do things when guessing what the Pats are doing. Mostly bc it comes with the BIG caveat that NE is doing what's best for the long-term.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 12, 2024 14:52:36 GMT -5
The Patriots came out week one and looked like a well coached team. That's impressive and a huge thing for Mayes development. A huge win buys them time to stick with Brissett and it's a good thing. Going from what we watched in preseason to what we watched versus Bengals shows good coaching is happening.
I'm still not convinced they have the right players starting at WR. While Osborn and Thornton showed you something, it wasn't much against a bad D, that was playing the run. Hooper impressed as a good solid #2 TE. The passing game is very much a work in progress and needs to get vertical or things will get worse.
I'm also disappointed no Boutte or Baker, plus not much Polk either.
They get another favorable match up, Seahawks weren't good on D last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 12, 2024 14:54:31 GMT -5
Can you pass along whatever you wanted to point out for those of us that don't have PFF? I only got Detroit #1 OL and I'm fairly certain that wasn't what you wanted to point out. Thanks.
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Post by rasimon on Sept 12, 2024 14:56:06 GMT -5
Can you pass along whatever you wanted to point out for those of us that don't have PFF? I only got Detroit #1 OL and I'm fairly certain that wasn't what you wanted to point out. Thanks. Pats ranked #32 "The Patriots averaged -0.1 rushing yards before contact against the Bengals, which ranked last in the NFL in Week 1."
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 12, 2024 14:58:05 GMT -5
The Patriots came out week one and looked like a well coached team. That's impressive and a huge thing for Mayes development. A huge win buys them time to stick with Brissett and it's a good thing. Going from what we watched in preseason to what we watched versus Bengals shows good coaching is happening. I'm still not convinced they have the right players starting at WR. While Osborn and Thornton showed you something, it wasn't much against a bad D, that was playing the run. Hooper impressed as a good solid #2 TE. The passing game is very much a work in progress and needs to get vertical or things will get worse. I'm also disappointed no Boutte or Baker, plus not much Polk either. They get another favorable match up, Seahawks weren't good on D last year. Hooper seemed more athletic than I expected him to be at this point in his career I like Baker a lot as a prospect but I think I’d give Boutte a look first. It seems like the Pats want Baker to work on his professionalism
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 12, 2024 14:59:45 GMT -5
Can you pass along whatever you wanted to point out for those of us that don't have PFF? I only got Detroit #1 OL and I'm fairly certain that wasn't what you wanted to point out. Thanks. Pats ranked #32 "The Patriots averaged -0.1 rushing yards before contact against the Bengals, which ranked last in the NFL in Week 1." If we can keep Mondre healthy he could be a top 5 back this year imo
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Post by costpet on Sept 12, 2024 15:14:12 GMT -5
A lot will be determined by the QB play this week. If it's efficient, things will stay the same. If our offense is very weak and need some points, I could see Maye stepping in in the 3rd or 4th quarter. Seattle isn't that great compared to the Bengals. Yet, we did well. Games against the Seahawks and Jets will determine the season. Win both, with maybe Maye stepping in, it could be a really fun season. All that's been talked about our OL, I think they are determined to show that they're better than what's been said. Lots of motivation. Sometimes that goes a long way. Anyway, I'm excited for this team and everyone on it. Coaches, too.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 12, 2024 17:30:05 GMT -5
Can you pass along whatever you wanted to point out for those of us that don't have PFF? I only got Detroit #1 OL and I'm fairly certain that wasn't what you wanted to point out. Thanks. Pats ranked #32 "The Patriots averaged -0.1 rushing yards before contact against the Bengals, which ranked last in the NFL in Week 1." Not surprising, unless they open it up and throw down the field that's not even an OL issue. That's OC, QB and pass catcher issue. That offense is designed to run heavy, but also play action pass deep and that didn't happen. Bengals spent all 2nd half and part of the first just stacking the box playing the run.
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