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Predicting The 2025 Opening Day Roster
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Post by blizzards39 on Sept 23, 2024 23:05:32 GMT -5
Soto is so good the roster fit is irrelevant. 8 WAR players in their 20s don’t reach free agency every year. If you can bring him on you can move other players to make the roster work. None of them are or will be as good as Soto. Totaly agree. And the only way im trading casas, duran , anthony or mayer is if ii all ready have soto commited. Then i let one one those 4 go as part of a deal to get a cost controled top of rotation pitcher. There is absolutely no reason to trade off any of out young cost controled LH bats ,For an expensive RH bat just to " balance the lineup" The idea of trading Duran and letting Hamilton lead off fulltime is rediculous. Thats a recipe for less wins any way you look at it. The bigger issue is simply filling the open spots with quality RH power. Alot currently rides on storys health, who are wong and raffaela and if grissom or campbell can establish themselves at 2B.
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Post by keninten on Sept 23, 2024 23:07:46 GMT -5
I doubt the Yankees let a generational player like Soto get away and if they botch that, the Mets wont let him slip thru. But say the Sox go out and sign Soto. That would be a helluva feat. The more I think about it, I'd still hang onto the Big 4. I'd go with an OF of Soto/Duran/Anthony and use Rafaela as the utility guy that some envision him as although if he helped them get a pretty good pitcher as part of a deal, then I'd trade him. But the point is as left handed as they slant, that wouldnt be a concern. A potential issue is that if Devers' shoulder is messed up then he could be restricted to DH duties for an unknown amount of time.If Devers winds up a DH before his time then Soto would have to stay in LF, but then again I dont think he'd be any worse than Manny ever was. I think if/when the Sox dont get Soto, but think Devers can eventually go back to 3b and seek a RH bopper, I do think in those scenarios, Vlad Jr does become a possibility. I could see the Sox going there if it came to it and my feeling is that Vlad would like to be a Red Sox. We'll see. What about Devers to 1B? I`ve always just assumed he would eventually move there. Of course if the shoulder is so messed up he can`t throw at all, he would be the DH.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2024 0:55:34 GMT -5
I doubt the Yankees let a generational player like Soto get away and if they botch that, the Mets wont let him slip thru. But say the Sox go out and sign Soto. That would be a helluva feat. The more I think about it, I'd still hang onto the Big 4. I'd go with an OF of Soto/Duran/Anthony and use Rafaela as the utility guy that some envision him as although if he helped them get a pretty good pitcher as part of a deal, then I'd trade him. But the point is as left handed as they slant, that wouldnt be a concern. A potential issue is that if Devers' shoulder is messed up then he could be restricted to DH duties for an unknown amount of time.If Devers winds up a DH before his time then Soto would have to stay in LF, but then again I dont think he'd be any worse than Manny ever was. I think if/when the Sox dont get Soto, but think Devers can eventually go back to 3b and seek a RH bopper, I do think in those scenarios, Vlad Jr does become a possibility. I could see the Sox going there if it came to it and my feeling is that Vlad would like to be a Red Sox. We'll see. What about Devers to 1B? I`ve always just assumed he would eventually move there. Of course if the shoulder is so messed up he can`t throw at all, he would be the DH. I prefer Casas at 1b.
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Post by keninten on Sept 24, 2024 1:21:21 GMT -5
What about Devers to 1B? I`ve always just assumed he would eventually move there. Of course if the shoulder is so messed up he can`t throw at all, he would be the DH. I prefer Casas at 1b. That`s why I prefer Casas as trade bait. He could fetch a lot to the right team, if there is one.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 24, 2024 5:43:12 GMT -5
First, I'm not convinced the Sox will go big splash over continuing organizational improvement. That path remains to be seen.
Just want to list the pitching assets the Sox have under control (assumes Pivetta and Jansen walk.)
Starters;
Houck Bello Crawford Criswell Giolito Priester Fitts
Swing: Wincowski Whitlock (delayed)
Pen (not including MLB ready at AAA)
Hendriks Slaten Martin (I'm assuming here) Guerrero Booser (L) Bernardino (L) Weisert Penrod (L) Shugart
This shouldn't be a bad staff.
Other offbeat things I'd like to see:
All starters work on stamina like Houck did last year. Rafaela and Wong need more good weight.
Other items:
Story, Grissom and Campbell all bat right handed.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 24, 2024 5:57:07 GMT -5
That`s why I prefer Casas as trade bait. He could fetch a lot to the right team, if there is one. I think the Red Sox are the right team. If he stays healthy, he'll have some big years up ahead. Much prefer that with the Red Sox. Dont think the Sox have to go to that point to improve the pitching.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 24, 2024 6:37:51 GMT -5
That`s why I prefer Casas as trade bait. He could fetch a lot to the right team, if there is one. I think the Red Sox are the right team. If he stays healthy, he'll have some big years up ahead. Much prefer that with the Red Sox. Dont think the Sox have to go to that point to improve the pitching. 2nd this, spend the money keep the young guys like Casas making peanuts that allow you to once again spend the money!!
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 24, 2024 6:53:00 GMT -5
Not loving the rationale of trading 4 years of casas for Guerrero and paying him probably 25-30M a year when Casas probably doesn't even make 30M combined over that 4 years of control. If they want Guerrero just go sign him next year because I don't see him signing an extension with TOR. I think your 10M off on the AAV of Vlady. Something like 12y 450M. . Unless Catostrofic injury or the market completely reset i cant inagine less than 32M per. Probably closer to 40. Also, if the jays look to trade vlad that means a full rebiuld. I think there interest would more be in Anthony, campbell and Mayer and not Casas Not to get into a back and forth here but I think you are way over shooting the moon on that contract projection. He's a poor defensive 1st baseman and has had two outstanding years intertwined with solid but unspectacular seasons. 1st baseman are not bringing that type of money no matter how old they are at the time of FA. He is probably relatively comparable to a Matt Olson who at 27 signed for 8 years 162M with the Braves. Probably was some discount given because the Braves seem to have hypnotic powers in negotiations and it was not in FA as well as some contract inflation since the signing but that still feels like maybe something like 8-10 years at $25AAV.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 24, 2024 7:47:26 GMT -5
I feel like you're trade someone like Duran +++ for that ACE type. Duran has more WAR this year than every single pitcher and has four years of control left. The list of pitchers that Duran wouldn't be enough for you could count on one hand I get that Duran has a lot of WAR, I like Duran and my preference would be to keep him. But no one can honestly tell me that if the shoe were on the other foot, they'd trade away the value that would be in line with a 7 WAR player per year and 4 years of control if Said player literally tripled his best season ever. I don't think anyone out there would deny Duran is a good player, and probably even his biggest haters have raised their perception of who he is, and what his floor is, but it's fair to point out that this might also be his best season ever. My prefence is sign. But if people expect a trade for a top of the roation starter you're dealing someone like Duran, Casas, or at a minimum two of your top 4 plus more prospects. That's just the price of admission.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 24, 2024 10:06:10 GMT -5
For future reference. When someone says ACE type. I want a name. Thank you. Duran is the engine that drove this team. It collapsed because Breslow was slow to help the pen. Should have been done before deadline. And, picked the wrong ones. Garcia, Sims, Paxton and Jensen earn a grade of F. Yes. Utter failure by our GM.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Sept 24, 2024 11:06:31 GMT -5
First, I'm not convinced the Sox will go big splash over continuing organizational improvement. That path remains to be seen. Just want to list the pitching assets the Sox have under control (assumes Pivetta and Jansen walk.) Starters; Houck Bello Crawford Criswell Giolito Priester Fitts Swing: Wincowski Whitlock (delayed) Pen (not including MLB ready at AAA) Hendriks Slaten Martin (I'm assuming here) Guerrero Booser (L) Bernardino (L) Weisert Penrod (L) Shugart This shouldn't be a bad staff. Other offbeat things I'd like to see: All starters work on stamina like Houck did last year. Rafaela and Wong need more good weight. Other items: Story, Grissom and Campbell all bat right handed. Don’t forget they’ll have Chris Murphy and Michael Fulmer as well next year. The former should be solid swing/long relief option and the latter should hopefully be a high leverage RHP late inning option presumably taking Martin’s spot if he walks/retires.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Sept 24, 2024 11:09:03 GMT -5
If Casas is traded, I’m all for signing Christian Walker to a 3 year deal. He’d absolutely mash @ Fenway as a RHH and is gold glove caliber 1B.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Sept 24, 2024 12:23:56 GMT -5
For future reference. When someone says ACE type. I want a name. Thank you. Duran is the engine that drove this team. It collapsed because Breslow was slow to help the pen. Should have been done before deadline. And, picked the wrong ones. Garcia, Sims, Paxton and Jensen earn a grade of F. Yes. Utter failure by our GM. totally agree with this. If Breslow had improved the bullpen sooner, the Red Sox would be where the Orioles are at +4 in the wildcard. Paxton threw something like 11 innings, and Sims and García performed worse than anyone the Red Sox already had (gas on the fire).
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 24, 2024 12:54:57 GMT -5
For future reference. When someone says ACE type. I want a name. Thank you. Duran is the engine that drove this team. It collapsed because Breslow was slow to help the pen. Should have been done before deadline. And, picked the wrong ones. Garcia, Sims, Paxton and Jensen earn a grade of F. Yes. Utter failure by our GM. totally agree with this. If Breslow had improved the bullpen sooner, the Red Sox would be where the Orioles are at +4 in the wildcard. Paxton threw something like 11 innings, and Sims and García performed worse than anyone the Red Sox already had (gas on the fire). Now, Now.....We did get 4 innings from Rich Hill
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 24, 2024 13:16:05 GMT -5
I would like to sign Scott and Snell. We need to be a little more left-handed. Scott and Hendriks should be an ideal closing combo. I think Snell would have been fine had he had a spring training.
I want to keep the Fab Four. We aren’t very good at C, SS and 2b. Voila! Other than Roman. Our top 3 prospects play those positions. I give Campbell a shot to play 2nd breaking camp. Roman starts and bats 2nd. Teel and Meyer should start in AAA.
Wilyer, Hamilton (losing him hurt) and Kutter could be had for upgrades to the staff.
If we’re short a starter, we will be dealing with some assets at the deadline. Monty, Cespedea, Arias, Romero and Password are going to have a hard time breaking into our lineup.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 24, 2024 13:27:41 GMT -5
Duran has more WAR this year than every single pitcher and has four years of control left. The list of pitchers that Duran wouldn't be enough for you could count on one hand I get that Duran has a lot of WAR, I like Duran and my preference would be to keep him. But no one can honestly tell me that if the shoe were on the other foot, they'd trade away the value that would be in line with a 7 WAR player per year and 4 years of control if Said player literally tripled his best season ever. I don't think anyone out there would deny Duran is a good player, and probably even his biggest haters have raised their perception of who he is, and what his floor is, but it's fair to point out that this might also be his best season ever. My prefence is sign. But if people expect a trade for a top of the roation starter you're dealing someone like Duran, Casas, or at a minimum two of your top 4 plus more prospects. That's just the price of admission. This certainly might be the best season he ever has, but the combination of speed, defense, and hitting makes you into a WAR monster. If he's healthy he should comfortably get above 4 WAR for at least a few more seasons just because he adds value in all parts of the game.
Meanwhile, only 10 pitchers in MLB have accumulated 4+ fWAR this season. Only 3 have 5+ WAR. None have matched Duran't 6.7.
Meanwhile also: here are the numbers of 3+ WAR pitchers for all of the best teams in the AL:
Yankees - 1 Guardians - 1 Orioles - 1 Astros - 2
The Red Sox have 1. They don't so desperately *need* to add more top pitchers to hang with the best teams; certainly not if the price is giving away their best player.
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 24, 2024 14:08:04 GMT -5
I get that Duran has a lot of WAR, I like Duran and my preference would be to keep him. But no one can honestly tell me that if the shoe were on the other foot, they'd trade away the value that would be in line with a 7 WAR player per year and 4 years of control if Said player literally tripled his best season ever. I don't think anyone out there would deny Duran is a good player, and probably even his biggest haters have raised their perception of who he is, and what his floor is, but it's fair to point out that this might also be his best season ever. My prefence is sign. But if people expect a trade for a top of the roation starter you're dealing someone like Duran, Casas, or at a minimum two of your top 4 plus more prospects. That's just the price of admission. This certainly might be the best season he ever has, but the combination of speed, defense, and hitting makes you into a WAR monster. If he's healthy he should comfortably get above 4 WAR for at least a few more seasons just because he adds value in all parts of the game.
Meanwhile, only 10 pitchers in MLB have accumulated 4+ fWAR this season. Only 3 have 5+ WAR. None have matched Duran't 6.7.
Meanwhile also: here are the numbers of 3+ WAR pitchers for all of the best teams in the AL:
Yankees - 1 Guardians - 1 Orioles - 1 Astros - 2
The Red Sox have 1. They don't so desperately *need* to add more top pitchers to hang with the best teams; certainly not if the price is giving away their best player.
I’m not sure there’s all that much disagreement between those two posts for exactly the reasons you’ve said. There just aren’t very many true-blue number 1s in baseball. It would take more than Duran to get Skenes or Skubal, probably Cole Ragans, too. But beyond that, are there any more number 1s who aren’t already locked down on long-term deals? I’m not sure. Just as an example, Logan Gilbert’s name has been thrown around a lot over the past year or two. He’s a very good young pitcher, but he also just crossed the 4-WAR mark for the first time in his career and will be going into his Arb2 year next year. He’s an archetypal number 2, a guy who can lead a good, deep rotation and will be in the all star mix every year, but is probably on the outskirts of the Cy Young conversation. That’s still going to cost a pretty penny, but it isn’t going to take the sort of godfather offer it would for Skenes or Skubal.
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asm18
Veteran
Posts: 2,792
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Post by asm18 on Sept 24, 2024 14:15:00 GMT -5
Meanwhile, only 10 pitchers in MLB have accumulated 4+ fWAR this season. Only 3 have 5+ WAR. None have matched Duran't 6.7. [/div]
[/quote] I think when we talk about getting an “ace”, it’s of different type from nearly a decade ago when they loaded up on Price & Sale. From 2014-2016, the most valuable starters over that 3 year stretch (going with fWAR for simplicity sake) were: Kershaw - 22.8 Scherzer - 17.7 Kluber - 17.6 Price - 16.7 Sale 15.9 Sale’s 5th place number from that timeframe currently is higher than any starter over the last 3 years (2022-2024) - the closest being Wheeler at 15.3 and Gausman at 13.5. This gap is partly due to 1) those guys above being really freaking good, 2) starters pitched more innings 10 years ago, and 3) I suspect a number of guys who might have been higher blew their arms out at one point (hello Spencer Strider, Tarik Skubal, & Alcantara). Like there’s no one with 2016 Chris Sale’s age, pedigree, and track record (not to mention team friendly contract). Your 2024 aces are either a step below (like Corbin Burnes, Max Fried), unavailable (think Zach Wheeler or Skubal), very flawed despite their talent (like Crochet & Blake Snell) or little b*tches (ahem GERRIT COLE ahem).
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 24, 2024 14:21:52 GMT -5
Speaking of Logan Gilbert, I’m reminded of the conversations a few days ago about the benefit of having an elite framer like Cal Raleigh behind the plate. As successful a season it’s been at the plate for Wong, it’s been pretty a pretty bad one behind it, and his framing is a real issue. I don’t think you can rely on Teel coming out of the gate, either, so I would be very much in favor of finding an elite framer to take on some of the catching duties.
Austin Hedges is gonna be the best one available by far, but I just do not have any interest in watching his bat in the lineup at any point, so I think I’m out on him. Next up seems like it would be Grandal—he’s getting up there, and he doesn’t move as well behind the plate as he used to, but he’s put up a respectable batting line this year and been an excellent framer. I think a one year deal for him would make a lot of sense.
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Post by redsoxpride34 on Sept 24, 2024 16:16:21 GMT -5
I agree with some of the other posts that the red sox should 100% be in on Juan Soto. I will admit I did waffle for bit with pending free agency of Vlad Jr next offseason but ultimately Soto makes more sense for 2 key reasons. 1) He will be available this offseason 2) He's been more consistent than Vlad jr.
1) We cannot assume Vlad Jr will hit the market after the 2025 season. The Jays could pony up the money and extend him or he could be traded to a team at the deadline that is willing to extend him.
It would be a disaster if the sox passed on Soto with the idea being to sign Vlad jr after next season only for him not to hit the market.
2) Soto has hit at a high level more consistently than Vlad jr and there are no concerns about him physically on a long-term deal. Vlad jr has had condition issues already despite being in his mid 20's and as we've seen in the past those issues don't tend to improve as players get older.
Furthermore, Soto is exactly the type of player you'd want to invest in long-term. Only entering his age 26 season, already an elite hitter and would provide the sox with the superstar they need. With all the young, cheap talent flooding the major league roster already and much more on the way, this is the perfect time to spend big. Another bonus is that you get to take him from the yankees which would no doubt weaken them significantly.
Next season the line-up could be:
Duran (LF) Story (SS) Soto (DH/LF) Devers (3B) Casas (1B) Anthony (RF) Rafaella (CF) Teel (C) Grissom/ Campbell (2B)
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Sept 24, 2024 16:40:05 GMT -5
I'm seeing a lot of love for Soto, a terrific player. Are we comfortably certain he'll be playing next year at age 26?
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Post by kwodes on Sept 24, 2024 17:20:08 GMT -5
Duran RF Soto LF Walker 1B Devers 3B Story SS Yoshida DH Grissom 2B Wong C Rafaela CF
Bench Free agent C (smart move is to have Teel start in AAA) Hamilton Refsnyder Romy/sogard
SP: Logan Gilbert (casas and abreu traded for him and Andres Munoz) SP: Houck SP: Crawford SP: Giolito SP: Bello
RP: Munoz RP: Martin RP: Slaten RP: Whitlock RP: Penrod RP: Guerrero RP: Criswell RP: LEFTY ACQUISITION
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Post by abrinker on Sept 24, 2024 18:12:09 GMT -5
Speaking of Logan Gilbert, I’m reminded of the conversations a few days ago about the benefit of having an elite framer like Cal Raleigh behind the plate. As successful a season it’s been at the plate for Wong, it’s been pretty a pretty bad one behind it, and his framing is a real issue. I don’t think you can rely on Teel coming out of the gate, either, so I would be very much in favor of finding an elite framer to take on some of the catching duties. Austin Hedges is gonna be the best one available by far, but I just do not have any interest in watching his bat in the lineup at any point, so I think I’m out on him. Next up seems like it would be Grandal—he’s getting up there, and he doesn’t move as well behind the plate as he used to, but he’s put up a respectable batting line this year and been an excellent framer. I think a one year deal for him would make a lot of sense. This. I believe the most important signing of the offseason is catcher. It's obviously not a sexy move, but I believe more important than a TOR starter and more important than a RHH bat. Wong held his own at the plate, but his defensive metrics are atrocious. Not only would acquiring a strong defensive catcher be much more cost effective, the raise-all-boats effect he would have on the pitching staff would be a force multiplier. A strong defensive catcher gets increased length out of starters (fewer wasted pitches leading to high pitch count and early exits), which lessens usage of bullpen, allowing them to perform deeper into the season. You really can't, IMO, use crude measures like WAR to quantify the aggregate benefit or detriment a catcher can have on team performance. In that way, it ought to be the most critical item on the offseason checklist. Plus, since they don't cost a lot of money, we could leverage room in the budget to lock up young guys with extensions and to add in a couple of higher-ticket high leverage bullpen options, along with a RHH bat (a la Teoscar or O'Neill last year). As for who, Carson Kelly would be a good fit, maybe on a 2/12 deal. I'd even be ok going after Hedges (he could probably be had for 2/5-6. He's a cipher at the plate, but his defensive value is so immense. He rates at the top in terms of framing, blocking and controlling basepaths. Plus, he'd be a great mentor for Teel when he comes up. Only drawback is offense, and if he's in the lineup most nights, you really can't have more than one black hole in the lineup at the same time, so I'd be worried by an 8-9 combination of Rafaela-Hedges. Pick your poison. Maybe Wong stays as a backup, or maybe you find a trade partner for him that brings back some value.
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Post by abrinker on Sept 24, 2024 18:25:05 GMT -5
Duran RF Soto LF Walker 1B Devers 3B Story SS Yoshida DH Grissom 2B Wong C Rafaela CF Bench Free agent C (smart move is to have Teel start in AAA) Hamilton Refsnyder Romy/sogard SP: Logan Gilbert (casas and abreu traded for him and Andres Munoz) SP: Houck SP: Crawford SP: Giolito SP: Bello RP: Munoz RP: Martin RP: Slaten RP: Whitlock RP: Penrod RP: Guerrero RP: Criswell RP: LEFTY ACQUISITION Hard to imagine the Sox forking over 80M AAV for Soto, Walker, Gilbert, C and RP. Not saying they shouldn't. I just don't see them going over the threshold. Also, OF defense would take quite a hit.
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Post by blizzards39 on Sept 24, 2024 18:36:02 GMT -5
Im sure hoping Story is next years Chris Sale, but in Sox jersey. Hes an amazing defender, a good baserunner and RH power. Most of all a great guy.
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