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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Nov 14, 2024 13:15:14 GMT -5
This is not a convince Soto, then convince ownership to write the check situation. Ownership is a driving force here. I wouldn't bet that they are favorites, Cohen could just say 900M for all anyone knows, but I believe they think they can make the money work to the point where is comes down to Soto picking where he wants to be. I wonder how much Theo has changed the equation
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 13:16:09 GMT -5
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 14, 2024 13:16:09 GMT -5
This is not a convince Soto, then convince ownership to write the check situation. Ownership is a driving force here. I wouldn't bet that they are favorites, Cohen could just say 900M for all anyone knows, but I believe they think they can make the money work to the point where is comes down to Soto picking where he wants to be. Is ownership the driving force because it’s Soto or would this mindset represent a reversion to the early-2000’s Sox where they are willing to spend like a top of the market power? Either one is encouraging to me but the latter would make me feel pretty confident in this organization being top tier across the next decade when combined with the incoming homegrown talent.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 14, 2024 13:39:57 GMT -5
What do people think the odds are that whoever signs Soto ends up regretting it? To be clear, I am on the bandwagon and will be shouting war cries in the office parking lot if they land him. But there’s a pretty sizeable chance that giving out the largest contract in the sport’s history backfires in a big way, no? Biggest FA contracts in MLB history:
Ohtani Judge Harper Seager Yamamoto Cole Machado (2019-2028) Trea Turner Bogaerts AlexRod
None of these look like *bad* deals, other than Bogaerts, which was obviously bad when it was signed. Some are TBD. But basically these teams paid a ton of money and, at least to date, have gotten a ton of value from their investments.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 14, 2024 13:44:03 GMT -5
This is not a convince Soto, then convince ownership to write the check situation. Ownership is a driving force here. I wouldn't bet that they are favorites, Cohen could just say 900M for all anyone knows, but I believe they think they can make the money work to the point where is comes down to Soto picking where he wants to be. Is ownership the driving force because it’s Soto or would this mindset represent a reversion to the early-2000’s Sox where they are willing to spend like a top of the market power? Either one is encouraging to me but the latter would make me feel pretty confident in this organization being top tier across the next decade when combined with the incoming homegrown talent. I'd call it a reversion to the classic Red Sox approach from 2023 where they are willing to go all-out on megadeals for especially young and talented players.
A related thought is that if they miss out on Soto, I am immediately calling them the favorites to land Vladdy Jr., whose 26th birthday is coming up in March.
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Post by rkarp on Nov 14, 2024 14:46:23 GMT -5
interesting that Carrabis is hearing that Soto wants to be the alpha dog, which he will never be with the NYY with Judge on the team if the money is right, could be RS and Mets
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 15:24:01 GMT -5
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Post by jdb on Nov 14, 2024 15:24:01 GMT -5
I’m thinking 15 years and pay him $55 per for the first 5 years with an opt out after that. Then 10 at $35 per the rest of the way and he could hit the market again at age 31 like Judge just did.
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 15:50:01 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Nov 14, 2024 15:50:01 GMT -5
interesting that Carrabis is hearing that Soto wants to be the alpha dog, which he will never be with the NYY with Judge on the team if the money is right, could be RS and Mets However, it’s hard seeing him being the Alpha on the Mets with Lindor. Soto is better than Lindor, but he’s certainly the face and spokesperson for the team. The more and more this is hashed out here and I reflect on it, it would be seemingly be very hard for Soto not to have the Red Sox has his number one choice if they’re willing to fork over the cash.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Nov 14, 2024 16:05:56 GMT -5
Already annoyed at the click economy. So many quotes hedging and equivocating about who's the favorite to sign him, who's a dark horse, who's bidding against who, etc. I don't think it's done maliciously, but most of it is garbage. Maybe I have PTSD from last offseason's Ohtani/Yamamoto show.
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Post by bishop on Nov 14, 2024 16:09:46 GMT -5
interesting that Carrabis is hearing that Soto wants to be the alpha dog, which he will never be with the NYY with Judge on the team if the money is right, could be RS and Mets Aaron Judge will hopefully be retired or a shell of himself by the second half of any Soto deal. Dodgers seem more like a team that would rule out if true.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Nov 14, 2024 16:27:56 GMT -5
interesting that Carrabis is hearing that Soto wants to be the alpha dog, which he will never be with the NYY with Judge on the team if the money is right, could be RS and Mets No disrespect intended: what are Carrabis's bonafides, if any, as a "sourced" insider? I thought he was an internet Red Sox fan 1st 2nd & 3rd -- have I got it wrong?
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Post by julyanmorley on Nov 14, 2024 16:31:21 GMT -5
I may be a degen but idiosyncratic psychological theories about what might attract him to a team are a step too far for me
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Nov 14, 2024 16:33:36 GMT -5
I too would like to be an alpha dog on the Red Sox
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 14, 2024 16:35:39 GMT -5
I may be a degen but idiosyncratic psychological theories about what might attract him to a team are a step too far for me Kind of funny how in this Soto thread there are potential pitches flying around for ideas that could sway him yet if you flip over to Sasaki's thread it's all just oh no he's going to the Dodgers. If anything it should probably be the exact opposite, Soto is signing with whoever gives him the most money he's said as much. Sasaki can only make a small percentage of what he's worth and literally the whole league can afford him so that is going to come down to who pitches him best and what internal factors might sway him.
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 16:38:01 GMT -5
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jdb likes this
Post by redsoxfan2 on Nov 14, 2024 16:38:01 GMT -5
Can't they just offer Soto $780,000 per year over the next 897 years?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Nov 14, 2024 17:03:32 GMT -5
interesting that Carrabis is hearing that Soto wants to be the alpha dog, which he will never be with the NYY with Judge on the team if the money is right, could be RS and Mets No disrespect intended: what are Carrabis's bonafides, if any, as a "sourced" insider? I thought he was an internet Red Sox fan 1st 2nd & 3rd -- have I got it wrong? He’s not a Passan type of insider but he definitely has connections in the Sox org and around the game
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 14, 2024 17:05:43 GMT -5
Why the hell have I refreshed this page so much today knowing that at the bare minimum nothing substantial will be reported before Monday, and likely much later than that? I’m like Dexter… Just accepting that I have an issue and swimming with the current.
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 17:19:17 GMT -5
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 14, 2024 17:19:17 GMT -5
Why the hell have I refreshed this page so much today knowing that at the bare minimum nothing substantial will be reported before Monday, and likely much later than that? I’m like Dexter… Just accepting that I have an issue and swimming with the current. [br I don't know about it taking substantially longer after Monday. For some reason I have a gut feeling the Soto sweepstakes won't drag on too long. Gonna guess he'll sign by next weekend. Of course since I said it we won't know until Dec.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 14, 2024 17:41:35 GMT -5
Biggest FA contracts in MLB history: Ohtani Judge Harper Seager Yamamoto Cole Machado (2019-2028) Trea Turner Bogaerts AlexRod None of these look like *bad* deals, other than Bogaerts, which was obviously bad when it was signed. Some are TBD. But basically these teams paid a ton of money and, at least to date, have gotten a ton of value from their investments.
There aree 3 groups here:1. Completed Contracts: Alex Rodriguez is the only player to have completed his contract on that list and in hindsight, it was bad. Not debilitating, because the Yankees had huge payrolls relative to the league, but 22.5 fWAR for $275mil at 2008 rates (12.2mil per fWAR) was a bad overall investment. He was very good for 4 years and then the testosterone laced wheels fell off. 2. Half-Completed: Harper has accumated 23.8 fWAR over the first 6 years for ~133mil for ~5.6mil per WAR - a good investment so far but with age 32-38 seasons left to go. Cole has accumulated 17.2 fWAR in 5 years for 157.3mil for 9.14mil per WAR - this is a bit high for FA rates but not by much and the Yankees & Cole agreement to keep the last 4 seasons (ages 34-37) as-is shows it's about market rate. Machado has had 16.6 fWAR over the first 4 years for 81.1mil, for 4.9mil per fWAR, a bargain - but Machado received an even larger 350mil/11year (ages 30-40) extension which superceded the last 6 season of the original contract. (these players each went through the 2020 shortened season and were only paid 37% salaries for those years; this has been accounted for in the numbers) 3. Just Started: As Incandneza points out only Xander looks bad from this group (still time to rebound), but of this group only one player (Seager) has completed 3 seasons as the rest are all in years 1 or 2 of contracts ranging 9-12 years. I think this just illustrates that paying young stars big money is a good investment while paying aging stars big money is a bad investment. The opt-outs make it even more interesting as the Yankees will likely be seen as smart for not agreeing to add 36mil/1yr to Cole's contract and the Padres will likely look like idiots for extending Machado through age 40 to avoid his opt-out
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 14, 2024 17:52:51 GMT -5
No disrespect intended: what are Carrabis's bonafides, if any, as a "sourced" insider? I thought he was an internet Red Sox fan 1st 2nd & 3rd -- have I got it wrong? He’s not a Passan type of insider but he definitely has connections in the Sox org and around the game Yup. As he's stated, he's just not interested in doing the reporting thing. He sticks to his lane. But he's definitely sourced.
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 18:06:08 GMT -5
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Post by pappyman99 on Nov 14, 2024 18:06:08 GMT -5
Dan Szymborksi just said in his chat that ZiPS would offer 13/$620 to Soto. I’d do that same total amount for 12 years
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Juan Soto
Nov 14, 2024 18:08:00 GMT -5
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Post by pappyman99 on Nov 14, 2024 18:08:00 GMT -5
Also for perspective Judge is entering is age 33 season, Soto wouldn’t start that on his new team until the 8th year of his deal
Sometimes I think people forget that next season will be his age 26 season
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Post by ematz1423 on Nov 14, 2024 18:58:58 GMT -5
Could there be a scenario where Soto and Crochet are linked in a sense? They sign Soto for 45M AAV and they're going to have a hard time convincing Henry to also spend 30M on fried/burnes/Snell.
Enter crochet and all of a sudden you get the big bat and the big pitcher for 50-60M. Just a thought, probably isn't much correlation but makes you wonder.
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Post by itinerantherb on Nov 14, 2024 19:12:54 GMT -5
If the serious interest in Soto is being accurately reported, it probably means that they're prepared to go over the luxury tax line. There seems to be a consensus that Soto will cost at least $45M AAV. If that's the case, it only leaves about $15M under the cap. In theory, I suppose they could trade for Crochet and a couple moderately priced relievers and call it an off season, but that seems like a tough needle to thread. Plus, it wouldn't really leave them any room at the deadline.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 14, 2024 19:17:53 GMT -5
If the serious interest in Soto is being accurately reported, it probably means that they're prepared to go over the luxury tax line. There seems to be a consensus that Soto will cost at least $45M AAV. If that's the case, it only leaves about $15M under the cap. In theory, I suppose they could trade for Crochet and a couple moderately priced relievers and call it an off season, but that seems like a tough needle to thread. Plus, it wouldn't really leave them any room at the deadline. If you trust Breslow's ability to set up a consistently good pitching development system, it kind of makes sense to go over this year by acquiring a high-priced reliever and another moderately priced one on short term deals with the assumption that, in the future, internal reinforcements will render those unnecessary expenses.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Nov 14, 2024 19:29:33 GMT -5
Could there be a scenario where Soto and Crochet are linked in a sense? They sign Soto for 45M AAV and they're going to have a hard time convincing Henry to also spend 30M on fried/burnes/Snell. Enter crochet and all of a sudden you get the big bat and the big pitcher for 50-60M. Just a thought, probably isn't much correlation but makes you wonder. It’s worth cautioning that any hellaciously loose flow of money by Henry & co. might be Soto-specific. Like the Blue Jays upon missing out on Ohtani last year didn’t go crazy after - they signed Justin Turner, Isaiah Kiner-Falefa and Yariel Rodriguez and that was basically it. That’s not not suggest this off-season will be a dud if they don’t land him - but half a billion that goes unused Soto might not waterfall into “well let’s just use that money on X”
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