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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 13:35:30 GMT -5
Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it not happening. As in, I would trade Mookie Betts because of it. I'm sure ownership is going to ask about the Mookie Betts trade scenarios when hiring a new GM. Trading their best player because of a possibility that the leading doctor in the field says is unnecessary right now seems kind of dramatic. Or forward thinking.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 13:24:14 GMT -5
If Sale needs Tommy John surgery, he'll be projected to be returning in 2021 or 2022. Plus, Mata should be ready by 2021, who could displace a guy like Price in the rotation or add to it. So if Sale doesn't need TJS, all of this goes out the window or what? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it not happening. As in, I would trade Mookie Betts because of it. I'm sure ownership is going to ask about the Mookie Betts trade scenarios when hiring a new GM.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 13:06:36 GMT -5
I disagree with the notion because of the health of Sale and the questionable rotation. The Sox are in position for a retooling year, not a one year build. Good chance I'll regret asking this, but: if next year is a re-tooling year because they'll be counting on Sale, who might be injured, why would you be more optimistic about 2021 and 2022, when they'll be... counting on Sale, who might be injured. But will also be older. As will Price. If Sale needs Tommy John surgery, he'll be projected to be returning in 2021 or 2022. Plus, Mata should be ready by 2021, who could displace a guy like Price in the rotation or add to it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 13:03:46 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone can be negative about the Sox overall future with a 27 year old Xander and a 23 year old Devers moving forward next year. These are middle of the order bats signed or controlled for a long long time. I disagree with the notion because of the health of Sale and the questionable rotation. The Sox are in position for a retooling year, not a one year build. Yeah, the Sox have a great LONG TERM future. Next year is in doubt though.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 12:41:07 GMT -5
The Sox are probably getting a major league ready outfielder in a Mookie Betts trade. Wouldn't make sense to do that trade without one available. Think Alex Verdugo, Kyle Tucker, Cristian Pache, Drew Waters. Any of that group. FTHW's point was that probably no team has more use for Betts than the Red Sox because no team has a bigger drop-off in value from Betts to whatever guy on the current roster would replace him. If a team already has a major-league ready outfielder to trade for Betts, then by definition Betts has less value for them than he does for the Red Sox. ADD: Or to put it another way - what sort of team would value Betts the most highly? Probably one that figures to be competitive next season, for whom marginal wins are worth the most, and which, in the absence of Betts, would be especially weak at the outfield position. Guess which team fits that description to a tee? I disagree with the notion because of the health of Sale and the questionable rotation. The Sox are in position for a retooling year, not a one year build.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 12:05:38 GMT -5
JBJ, Mookie, Benni, JDM. I've got JBJ, you ? If your point is that you can trade Mookie because you can just make JDM the everyday right fielder, I, uh, would be against that. The Sox are probably getting a major league ready outfielder in a Mookie Betts trade. Wouldn't make sense to do that trade without one available. Think Alex Verdugo, Kyle Tucker, Cristian Pache, Drew Waters. Any of that group.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 11:58:18 GMT -5
Who would you rather have as the GM/PoBO tomorrow, Billy Beane or Brian Sabean? Is neither an option? I apologize as I'm missing part of the point your trying to make. The team's current situation is a little tenuous because of some injuries and, yes, DD did sign those players who are injured. However, some better luck on the health side can be expected and there are some reinforcements projected to be in AAA next year (even if most of those reinforcements aren't elite) so I still think the team is in a good spot overall. They're not the Dodgers (who is) but there's plenty of reason to expect the winning to continue for the foreseeable future. I don't know how anyone can be negative about the Sox overall future with a 27 year old Xander and a 23 year old Devers moving forward next year. These are middle of the order bats signed or controlled for a long long time.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 11:39:08 GMT -5
Ben is out for the year per Tomlin. He might just retire while he's at it too. Heard Brees might be out for the year also.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 16, 2019 3:05:55 GMT -5
Yeah, rewatched the highlights yet again. What a slaughter. I can't even imagine the point spread with the Patriots are at home against the Dolphins later if everyone stays healthy.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 15, 2019 18:21:57 GMT -5
My god, Tom Brady to Antonio Brown is going to be the butter of bread this season. That second touchdown was as good as it gets. Miami didn't score one point here regardless.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 15, 2019 12:07:28 GMT -5
Yeah, this "Mookie will not sign before free agency so teams will not want to give up anything for him" is crap too.
If a team like the Braves or Dodgers all of a sudden have the money to spend and *actually want to spend it,* then they can definitely sign Mookie before free agency.
The reason why he hasn't signed in Boston is because the Sox haven't met Mookie's perceived value he places on himself. Argue with me on that fact or don't, but the simple truth is that the Sox haven't done it yet and it's doubtful the Sox ever go to that value (money) that Mookie wants.
Mookie has said he expects to get it in free agency. Doesn't mean he can't get it somewhere else first before free agency. It's probably not going to be Boston though.
The Sox just fired the GM that would lobby most to pay Mookie and keep him. There's no way in heck Dombrowski would be okay with trading a superstar like Mookie on his watch, because that's what Dombrowski gravitates towards. Star level (elite talent).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 15, 2019 11:56:28 GMT -5
If playoff performance is random, as you've suggested, then there's no reason for a team (like the Dodgers) to avoid a player because of it, as you've also suggested. If you think that the Dodgers should be content to win the division and just sit and wait for random luck to be on their side for a playoff run that's fine and have no inclination to debate that with you, just doesn't seem like a very popular strategy around here when applied to the Red Sox. The Dodgers (if we're going to focus exclusively on them) do have a reason to try to build a "super team", many of them actually. One is to win a WS, it's been stated several times very plainly as a reason for it. Another reason for acquiring Mookie is for the general betterment of a team. Mookie makes the Dodgers better. Full stop. That they would pay the price is a different story, but certainly up for debate. As the owner of the "As I said before and you ignored" and "Not sure how else to say this" quotes in this thread alone, there's some irony in you complaining about how someone speaks to you, no? As for my argument - my thought is that Betts is valuable and the Red Sox should try to keep him, but that Betts is valuable and other teams might want to acquire him. No team in baseball (Red Sox, Dodgers, etc.) should do anything ill-advised to retain his services. Some of the things you've said don't align with that argument in my opinion, if that's talking to you like you're stupid then guilty, I guess. They should not avoid Betts because of the playoff performance. They should avoid giving up their plan of developing their own incredible talent along with the deepest team in the majors that has led them to winning 7 straight division titles with no end in sight. They should only give up their incredible team building philosophy IF it would guarantee a WS victory, which cannot ever happen. Until then, they'll stick with what they're doing. It's just a matter of time before they win, with Mookie or without. The Sox were bound to win 3 straight divisions in a row from 2016-2018, no matter what they did. Then they acquired JDM and Chris Sale and built a unstoppable force for one year, which you argued against in the Chris Sale trade forum. The Dodgers would be doing the correct thing by pushing all their chips on the table while Kershaw is still relevant and helping the Dodgers win because that's definitely not lasting forever. Windows only last so long today in MLB or in any sport for that matter. The Diamondbacks are building a good team, thanks to Hazen. The Padres are coming with all their young talent too. The Braves and Astros would be doing the correct thing if they acquired Mookie instead.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 15, 2019 3:34:54 GMT -5
Ortiz's first comments about the shooting, his recovery, etc. He's going to be doing post-season games this October on Fox.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 14, 2019 23:12:08 GMT -5
If forced to choose between Mookie and JDM/Price, who are both over 30, the choice is simple. Playoff performance cannot be predicted so no smart team is going to give up a lot for what looks like might be an upgrade to fans. Also, the Dodgers have 17.1 fWAR from their outfielders this year compared to 12.1 for the Red Sox. How much of an upgrade would Mookie be to them? He would be an amazing upgrade because you can move Bellinger to 1b. In addition he is speed that gets on base which other than their big HR hitters don't that well. look at the team's OBP's. Mookei would be huge. Plus Mookie gives you superior defense. That would be one heck of a team.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 14, 2019 23:10:47 GMT -5
If forced to choose between Mookie and JDM/Price, who are both over 30, the choice is simple. Playoff performance cannot be predicted so no smart team is going to give up a lot for what looks like might be an upgrade to fans. Also, the Dodgers have 17.1 fWAR from their outfielders this year compared to 12.1 for the Red Sox. How much of an upgrade would Mookie be to them? The choice isn't Mookie or JDM/Price in a vacuum. There's some contracts and other portions of reality that you're glossing over. If playoff performance can't be predicted then why did you waste the time to bring it up? You tell me how much better their OF would be, you've already done 3/4 of the work to get to the answer. I would guess 3 fWAR which, if correct, is a notable improvement and well worth the price of admission. Your logic is still circular in that the Sox should retain him at all costs but no other team would invest in him. Now we have the added contradiction of playoff performance being vital but also random and therefore trivial. Playoff performance matters if you're trying to bring up why Mookie isn't valuable and won't be traded. Playoff performance doesn't matter thereafter. Don't you see?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 14, 2019 17:04:04 GMT -5
Yeah 45-50 win range. Right around last year's team, only without the side stories and drama in the middle.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 14, 2019 14:27:26 GMT -5
I personally think the Red Sox will explore trading Price and JDM (who I will bet does not opt-out), but not Mookie. You have been all over why teams won't trade for Betts, yet you think they can trade Price at his age after this season with three years and 96 million left? Unless you want to eat half his salary or take on another bad contract you need to wait till he is pitching well to trade him. It's hard being in denial. Create things that can't be possible (like the Price and JDM trades). Have we reached even step one of the 5 step process of denial here?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 14, 2019 3:58:37 GMT -5
Not Benintendi anymore. I'm not even sure he could even be a adequate RF at this point anymore. IMO it’s way too early to declare that about a still young, still learning, still high ceiling talent. In fact this down year hasn’t been a bad one, just a difficult one. Looking forward to the real Beni in 2020. To quote the infamous Matt Picard around here, "He's had the range of a fire hydrant this year." I don't know how Benny gets his range back going forward. Change of diet, less strength exercises. I don't know. Offensively he's declined, but still fine. It's his defense and range that has me seeing red flags with his game.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 22:47:08 GMT -5
Pearce was not ever the 4th OF and could only play LF. They needed someone to platoon with JBJ, and spell Benintendi and Mookie. Pearce is about as bad as JDM in the OF. Pearce couldn't platoon with JBJ when he was platooning with Moreland. All 3 OFers can play CF. There's flexibility with a corner 4OFer Not Benintendi anymore. I'm not even sure he could even be a adequate RF at this point anymore.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 22:04:51 GMT -5
Lol or they will find a good enough trade package that they like. You know one way or the other. Not just that way. Yeah, I'd say we're approaching flip a coin territory. One of the biggest decisions the incoming GM has to make. Like I've said before this offseason will be far more fascinating than the boring go nowhere ride the Sox gave us for 162 games this season. I'd think there's more of a chance he gets traded. Call it 60%-40% or 75%-25% chance he's gone versus staying. The only question that's on my mind is if another team gives up enough value. There's most likely going to be pressure from ownership to get good to great value our of this thing. There's also (I think) going to be pressure to trade him before his service time is up because they don't want to pay for this future contract. The Sox can always trade him later (trade deadline) if need be if they can't find the value this off-season.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 18:44:03 GMT -5
I personally think the Red Sox will explore trading Price and JDM (who I will bet does not opt-out), but not Mookie. Really interested in seeing how this offseason unfolds with so many moving parts. I don’t know what we could get with JD giving the rolling opt outs and I think we’d have to eat too much money on Price. You're not getting anything JDM, an AL player who can't play the field anymore, who's expensive. You're getting very little for Price, who's coming off a injury plagued season, and paying at least 10 million of the contract. You then have to pay someone else to take his spot in the rotation. I don't see how that makes any sense whatsoever. If you're going to trade Price, it's going to come this off-season through next year's trade deadline. He has 10/5 no trade rights after 2020. Sale has 10/5 no trade rights after 2021. Porcello has 10/5 rights if he's resigned this year (which is one of the many reasons why he's not coming back).
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 17:45:24 GMT -5
It's like you ignored the rest of his post on purpose. The point he made, was the same exact point I was making. You're using Tommy John surgery as a good reason why Ohtani shouldn't be DH'ing. SMH that you can't get how illogical that is. I'm using the multiple injuries as to why using Ohtani as a 2 way player could be a huge mistake. My original post bringing the whole subject up was about the knee injury. SMH
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 14:42:23 GMT -5
FWIW I would venture to say this doesn’t include TJ, which is probably a throwing-specific injury. Exactly, so him not DH'ing would do absolutely nothing to make it less likely to have arm troubles, which is the only reason this conversation went on as long as it did. It's like you ignored the rest of his post on purpose. The point he made, was the same exact point I was making.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 14:38:55 GMT -5
The way you breezily throw around words like "proves" and "causes" and the way you make definitive statements about injuries and the physical condition of players that you know very little about is inordinately frustrating to everyone. If my attempts to diffuse that with a little levity and humor frustrate you so, I don't know what to tell you. There's a difference between mocking and humor. Huge difference.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 13, 2019 12:40:43 GMT -5
Mock me all you want, but this is all about Ohtani playing more, not just doing both DHing and pitching. Which you know, people don't seem to be grasping.
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