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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 16, 2021 9:41:36 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 16, 2021 8:46:02 GMT -5
I doubt that Chaim will be going out and spending big on a closer, it just isn't a cost effective move IMO. He will trade and or sign guys with the type of stuff that fits for the BP and then see how they do in spring training. Barnes will certainly be in the mix based on performance and he should be.
Wacha could be in the mix if his stuff plays up in lower pitch counts, who knows. I don't want to see Whitlock or Houck in that role as they both look like the have the kind of stuff that could lead to success as starters and can at least give you a lot more innings in other roles.
And I wouldn't be surprised it 3 or 4 guys are ending games.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 15, 2021 10:11:02 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 18:10:35 GMT -5
Blooms job is to find value and put together a sustainable winning product. Trading Eovaldi sets up the future. Signing Rodón replaces him a bit with a suitable replacement (both guys unpredictable with injury history). Add- Freeing up Eovaldi cash could create fillings for other areas (bullpen for example). If Bloom traded Eovaldi for some elite prospect and then went on to sign Rodon, we’re not going to be freeing up money but that would be a hell of a move to improve the farm even more by trading someone with 1 year left then replacing them with someone very similar. At first glance and thought I say no Bloom would not trade Eovaldi and I wouldn't want to either. But if the Sox signed Rodon and got a great prospect for him in a trade I would have to rethink that. But in the end I just don't see that happening because trades need to make sense for both sides and who is going to make that trade for Eovaldi when they could just sign Rodon themselves and not give anything up. That is just one way of looking at it but I just don't see that premise adding up. Sometimes I think people here think there are some dumb GMs out there. Yes they make mistakes but that doesn't mean they are stupid, I don't think stupid people make it that far up the chain of billion dollar enterprises. But of course I could be wrong given what we all see them do, like nontendering Rodon after a 40m dollar season.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 16:08:08 GMT -5
Of course their are exceptions to the rule but all you have to do is look at Oakland, Pittsburgh, Cinn. TBay etc etc. Why is Oakland looking to trade all their best players right now when they have a yr or 2 of control left? Because they can't afford them so they want to trade them for the best prospects possible while they still have the added value of being on the cheap side of FA. The only way TBay can keep a guy like Wander is with the kind of deal they struck and I bet there is not a no trade clause. They could still deal him at any point. Imagine the prospects he would bring back in a trade. It is also why a guy like Duran will have a better chance of getting the playing time he needs in Oakland rather than a contending team like the Sox, like Josh Reddick did. You do realize that their are teams that never go over 100 million in payroll and others that never go below 150. The end result of that is there are small vs big market, hence the meaning "generally" of 1st and 2nd division. I know you get it I guess you just don't like the terminology that is used sometimes, I'm certainly not the guy who came up with those terms. Yes, like I said, it just seems like a very roundabout way of saying "good" or "not as good," but without any real specificity as to what counts as "good." julianmorley's 3 WAR criterion makes some sense, but then, why not just say player X projects to be worth Y WAR per season?
Anyway, this is probably as much of my grumbling about an arcane scouting term as the world needs, so I'll leave it at that. You are right about julianms 3 war criterion. I think it is just a way of saying good but not good enough like Hunter Renfroe or Josh Reddick. Like their are guys who play for Baltimore or Pittsburgh that would never play in NY or Boston, people here might call some of them AAAA players.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 15:58:00 GMT -5
Rodons numbers were actually phenomenal for the AL, I mean really across the board. And if you want to talk about a guy who should completely embrace pitching fewer innings and being great for 5 innings or less it is him. Will that be enough to save his arm, who knows. But if that is what you are going to be what is the market value? He had a bwar of 5 for the 133 innings he pitched, that is worth 40 miilion if war is 8m-1war.
I would think the fact he pitched at the end of the season would be good info as far as his health goes but he isn't going to be signed without the medicals right.
How much of a chance can you take on a guy who could give you a 40 million dollar season?
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 14:58:38 GMT -5
One of my favorites was about Bobby Orr in a book about his life. I guess the team would go to the same bars all the time in Boston and the girls would show up, hard to imagine right. Well they used to play "spin the Bobby". With a good buzz on they would blindfold him and spin him around with the girls standing around him, when he stopped spinning he would go home with the girl he was pointing at.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 14:43:20 GMT -5
I hope he does also but if I am getting your sarcasm correct that is part of the point actually. Those types of players end up on big market teams because the small market teams can't afford them in the long run. How about Wander Franco and Joey Votto then?
I mean, these all just seem like different ways of saying "good" and "not as good." But how good is "good"? Terms like 'below average,' 'average,' or 'perennial all-star' are a lot more graspable to me.
Of course their are exceptions to the rule but all you have to do is look at Oakland, Pittsburgh, Cinn. TBay etc etc. Why is Oakland looking to trade all their best players right now when they have a yr or 2 of control left? Because they can't afford them so they want to trade them for the best prospects possible while they still have the added value of being on the cheap side of FA. The only way TBay can keep a guy like Wander is with the kind of deal they struck and I bet there is not a no trade clause. They could still deal him at any point. Imagine the prospects he would bring back in a trade. It is also why a guy like Duran will have a better chance of getting the playing time he needs in Oakland rather than a contending team like the Sox, like Josh Reddick did. You do realize that their are teams that never go over 100 million in payroll and others that never go below 150. The end result of that is there are small vs big market, hence the meaning "generally" of 1st and 2nd division. I know you get it I guess you just don't like the terminology that is used sometimes, I'm certainly not the guy who came up with those terms.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 13:46:29 GMT -5
Think more along the lines of small market vs big market. One of the best examples might be a guy like Renfroe. The teams from small markets would love him a lot more than the big market teams that can afford the best players, he wasn't good enough to be a regular on the Sox as far as a lot of people here are concerned, not me btw. If you think about it people here are always looking to upgrade over average players, they want an all star or close at every position. Okay, here's hoping that he turns into a small market starter like Nick Castellanos or Randy Arozarena. I hope he does also but if I am getting your sarcasm correct that is part of the point actually. Those types of players end up on big market teams because the small market teams can't afford them in the long run.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 13:35:29 GMT -5
If you take a close look at the numbers he has basically been a 300 hitter with decent bb/k rates and a lot of power. That is taking out those 13 games incandeza mentions. I don't think it is much of a stretch to think he can be a first division regular especially when you take into consideration his age when he put these numbers up. Hopefully he gains more support here once next season comes. It's not a gigantic stretch, no, but reading his scouting report here the words, "potential fringe average hit tool" provides me with a lot of caution, triggering me to think of him as somebody who'll struggle to hit .250 in the majors should he make it. It doesn't make me think .275 - .300 type of hitter. Maybe that's a misconception I have based on how I read his scouting report. I have no questions on his power. From everywhere I read, it's legit. Defense is a little concerning. Don't know if he is a 3b or perhaps he shifts to LF? Remember that is just one scouting report based on what? How many at bats? I am not a scout nor could I ever be one so I am not questioning that. All I can do is look at the numbers and when I see that stat line out of a freshman I am impressed. Not many guys put up numbers like that at that age in D1. And again this yr in A ball 314 379 636 with 9 Hrs in 29 games. How can you look at that and think naahh he isn't a good prospect.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 13:20:10 GMT -5
Add "first division starter" and "second division starter" to "ceiling" and "floor" as scouting terms that I have never really understood. First of all, what are these divisions? How many "first division starters" are there in MLB at a given time? It sounds like it's saying good teams field first division players and bad teams field second division players, but that obviously doesn't make sense; even the best teams are below average at some positions. (Cf. 2018 World Series champion Eduardo Nunez.) Is a second division starter a potential 2 WAR guy? That's pretty useful! 1 WAR guy? That's a lot more meh! Think more along the lines of small market vs big market. One of the best examples might be a guy like Renfroe. The teams from small markets would love him a lot more than the big market teams that can afford the best players, he wasn't good enough to be a regular on the Sox as far as a lot of people here are concerned, not me btw. If you think about it people here are always looking to upgrade over average players, they want an all star or close at every position.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 12:57:04 GMT -5
Basically since 2019 his career has gone: 1) talked about as a potential first-rounder
2) missed a season due to injury and then covid 3) was rusty for 13 games 4) absolutely crushed it the rest of his last season in college 5) absolutely crushed it in his professional debut Feel pretty good about this guy!
With him, it's all about that "potential fringe average" hit tool. If it doesn't even reach that, you're looking at a AAAA guy who might be a DH. If he reaches that potential, then perhaps he's a LH Renfroe, a guy who doesn't hit for much average but can hit homers in a platoon role. If he improves upon hit tool, really improves, he could perhaps be a guy who can hit for a reasonable batting average, and perhaps hang in against lefties, maybe be a guy who's simply a regular (as opposed to the description 2nd division regular). My hope is that the Sox have found their future LF and a solid #5/#6 spot power bat for the lineup. If you take a close look at the numbers he has basically been a 300 hitter with decent bb/k rates and a lot of power. That is taking out those 13 games incandeza mentions. I don't think it is much of a stretch to think he can be a first division regular especially when you take into consideration his age when he put these numbers up. Hopefully he gains more support here once next season comes.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 12:07:45 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 11:34:53 GMT -5
Plater A is Draymond Green Player B is Grant Williams. Player C Awesome, that's right! Player C is P.J. Tucker Love to see Grant coming into his own as a versatile glue guy and knockdown shooter; exactly what we needed. I have mostly been bullish on Grant considering what he accomplished in college so yeah I am glad to see him develop. Losing some wt has helped as he was never really going to be very valuable trying to play as a big.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 11:32:37 GMT -5
Yea looking back to last year, it may be difficult to impossible to get a first round pick; if you don’t then you don’t deal him. Maybe the Nets would get desperate if Kyrie isn’t coming back. Anyways, carry on. And if the C's could get a 1st it would probably be late 1st and anything outside of the lottery is just a serious lottery pick anyway. I remember on here all the back and forth on how good or bad Danny did with all the picks the C's had a few yrs back. Sure they hit on some but they didn't hit on enough considering they had a 100. Given the age of most 1st rd picks nowadays is about 19 their are a lot of misses. Like umass said maybe the thing to do is package DS up with another vet and go after a young player who isn't fitting somewhere. There are guys who are late bloomers that were high picks at one point.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 8:23:57 GMT -5
Different styles of players but still interesting comparison... Player A age 23 season (82 games): 6.2 PTS, 5.0 REB, 1.9 AST, 1.2 STL, 0.9 BLK in 21.9 mins/game, .333 3pt% on 2.0 att/g, .449 2pt% on 3.6 att/g, .667 FT%. Win shares/48 .119, 1.9 BPM, 1.8 VORP Player B age 23 season (28 games): 7.5 PTS, 3.4 REB, 1.0 AST, 0.4 STL, 0.6 BLK in 22.1 mins/game, .453 3pt% on 3.4 att/g, .643 2pt% on 1.5 att/g, .867 FT%, Win shares/48 .142, -0.1 BPM, 0.3 VORP Player C career avgs (734 games): 7.1 PTS, 5.7 REB, 1.4 AST, 0.7 STL, 0.3 BLK in 29.1 mins/game, .362 3pt% on 2.9 att/g, .476 2pt% on 3.2 att/g, .750 FT%, Win shares/48 .084 Who are the players? Plater A is Draymond Green Player B is Grant Williams. Player C
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 14, 2021 7:44:55 GMT -5
I like seeing 31 assists.
I like the idea of getting 1st rd picks but does DS really get you that for a partial season under contract?
I like the idea of playing the young guys as it really doesn't matter what the short term veterans do on a team that isn't going to contend.
Is there any chance in h$!! that the team we saw last night could get some traction and start playing like that regularly?
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 13, 2021 19:13:09 GMT -5
Well first of all they have what all prospects have, potential, and the more prospects with potential you have the greater the chances you will hit on one. Right? And with having more assets you have more chips to sell off when building your roster. Manfred you are a smart guy, you don't need this explained to you. You are just so anti Bloom that you can't help but try to diminish his every move he makes. I get it, until the Sox win a WS ring he hasn't done anything is how you feel. Well let me remind you that the Sox went 86 yrs without one of those, it isn't easy. Not every move is going to immediately turn into a piece of gold like the Philly trade that brought in Pivetta and Seabold. He is taking chances while building the farm system which is heads and shoulders better when he took over, it takes patience to build from the bottom up. And btw they were just 2 games from the WS along that way. The Schwarber move turned into a stroke of genius tight. There will be hits and thee will be misses. Looooovveeed the Schwarber trade. Prospect for legit big bat? Every say, twice on Sunday. I agree with you on more than one level there!! Now I think I get where you are coming from. You look at prospects as suspects and I get that. In comparison to guys who have already done it at the major league level they are still suspects. Shouldn't you then be happy with the building of the system so there are more suspects to trade in the future? One does lead to the other.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 13, 2021 18:52:31 GMT -5
And Back to the actual thread topic. Binelas as a 3rd rd pick and what he has done when healthy is actually pretty impressive. He might end up being a 2nd division 3 outcome player but that is still a decent outcome. In fact it could be considered what Renfroe actually is. Hamilton "could" also end up being a good 2nd division utility player who makes an impact on the bases. And they could both end up being more who knows. I just don't agree with the narrative many here push that they are not good prospects, as far as prospects go. And plz if your going to continue to talk about JBJ's salary being eaten then subtract out Hunters salary. It is misleading to ignore that just to make your argument look better. Honest question: if the Sox have no aspiration to be a 2nd division team, how do these two then factor into their future? It seems like the answer would be eventually to package them — but I am not sure that is the plan. When Bloom begins turning some of these chips around before they lose value, I’ll be a much happier camper. Well first of all they have what all prospects have, potential, and the more prospects with potential you have the greater the chances you will hit on one. Right? And with having more assets you have more chips to sell off when building your roster. Manfred you are a smart guy, you don't need this explained to you. You are just so anti Bloom that you can't help but try to diminish his every move he makes. I get it, until the Sox win a WS ring he hasn't done anything is how you feel. Well let me remind you that the Sox went 86 yrs without one of those, it isn't easy. Not every move is going to immediately turn into a piece of gold like the Philly trade that brought in Pivetta and Seabold. He is taking chances while building the farm system which is heads and shoulders better when he took over, it takes patience to build from the bottom up. And btw they were just 2 games from the WS along that way. The Schwarber move turned into a stroke of genius tight. There will be hits and thee will be misses.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 13, 2021 8:41:45 GMT -5
And Back to the actual thread topic.
Binelas as a 3rd rd pick and what he has done when healthy is actually pretty impressive. He might end up being a 2nd division 3 outcome player but that is still a decent outcome. In fact it could be considered what Renfroe actually is. Hamilton "could" also end up being a good 2nd division utility player who makes an impact on the bases. And they could both end up being more who knows.
I just don't agree with the narrative many here push that they are not good prospects, as far as prospects go.
And plz if your going to continue to talk about JBJ's salary being eaten then subtract out Hunters salary. It is misleading to ignore that just to make your argument look better.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 13, 2021 5:45:54 GMT -5
I’ve been meaning to bring this up since I saw it a week or two ago (time blends together for me), but one of his teammates said he wouldn’t be surprised if Nelson Agholor was a coach after he stopped playing. Said he was obsessed with learning the entire playbook and every players responsibility and why for every play. Was reading Bedards article from a couple days ago today which trigger this memory. In that, he said the Patriots we heavily focused on adding free agents who were great teammates and hard workers, passing on more talented options. I’m holding our hope that there’s still a lot of room for this passing game to grow. Macs reps with the first team were limited because of Cam. Also, you have a new QB and all new skill position guys, that’s going to take a lot of time to grow, especially without camp. My 3 biggest concerns the rest of the way are: 1. Health 2. Passing offense 3. Reduced ability to play man to man on D I honestly see a team that is capable of winning it all. That might be a little bit over confident but if they do what BB coached teams normally do which is to continue to get better each week then who knows. The thing for me is that with all the new faces it is a roster that has that much more room to grow as they learn from Bill and what is expected. Also they are a group that is getting along really well and they have bought into the Patriot way, which is to just selflessly do your job. Maybe this isn't the yr for that yet but why not shock the world. What can I say I am a unapologetic Patriot homer. But I do know football and this has turned into a very good team. I mean really they just beat a team that was supposed to be very good in their house throwing the ball 3 times. That is more unfathonable than to think they could win it all. If they make it to the AFC Championship game BB should win Coach and Executive of the yr.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 11, 2021 18:42:22 GMT -5
This was well timed and a good message. I have to say that I have held back from replying to many posts that fall into the category of "really are you kidding me" type thoughts.
It is a testament to the site though that so many are still so involved with the threads here when nothing is actually going on.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 11, 2021 18:31:41 GMT -5
You play as you practice, if a coach allows that crap in practice it just becomes 2nd nature. It's why certain players complain being a Patriot isn't fun. Yet that's why they are the Patriots. It's Randy Moss getting in trouble showing up late because of a big snow storm. Bill wants you there learning to play during that weather, the results are the Bills game. There's no home field advantage because of crappy weather, Patriots have been practicing in crappy weather daily. I wouldn't be surprised if Bill has them instal wind machines and snow machines when they redo the stadium. You are absolutely right about "you play as you practice" and all of that is just one more reason why BB is the goat!!! What Kingsbury said this past week was just gold IMO. BB coaches every position, every move on the field and every asst coach to do everything a certain way and no one will ever do it better. Wasn't it Adalius Thomas that was late due to the snow storm? I don't remember Moss doing it but I am old and forgetful.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 11, 2021 17:26:18 GMT -5
The only thing that makes me feel better about replacing Bill some say is Kraft has hired 3 coaches and they are all HOFers. That being said Robert is an old man now and just going to be older by then and it will be around to 25 years since he had to hire one. All that as a lead in to this. “During a staff meeting, Meyer delivered a biting message that he's a winner and his assistant coaches are losers, according to several people informed of the contents of the meeting, challenging each coach individually to explain when they've ever won and forcing them to defend their résumés.” www.nfl.com/news/tension-boiling-over-between-coach-urban-meyer-jaguars-players-staff The stress of knowing he will be fired once the season is over is getting to him. They probably should have just fired him when the video of him in the bar came out. After reading that I don't know how he lasts much longer. I love it when dickheads get their comeuppance.
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Post by voiceofreason on Dec 11, 2021 13:07:18 GMT -5
Claypool just can't be very intelligent to do what he did, that is giving him break even if it sounds harsh. I just can't imagine playing football for as long as he has and not understanding the situation. The worst thing to me is not taking responsibility after and trying to point the finger at a teammate, which it also looks like he did right then during the game. I think BB would bench him for at least a game.
As for Tomlin he doesn't have the guts to do it but if I was ownership I might insist on it. There has just been too much of this kind of stuff thru the years with all the players you have mentioned to not make some kind of statement.
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