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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 3, 2015 10:32:21 GMT -5
John Manuel @johnmanuelba Talked to 2 #RedSox scouts in last 3 days about Espinoza; their attempts to temper enthusiasm always fails. He sounds too good to be true
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 3, 2015 11:08:18 GMT -5
Joon Lee @iamjoonlee 2 min Anderson Espinoza will make his Greenville Drive debut this Saturday, according to a source. #RedSox As I retweeted, Espinoza's agent said this last night.
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 3, 2015 11:14:50 GMT -5
Also seems inevitable that every young pitching star has to sustain and recover from a serious injury these days. Guys, relax with this. He's 17. We have two or three years to solve pitcher injuries .
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 3, 2015 11:16:17 GMT -5
John Manuel @johnmanuelba Talked to 2 #RedSox scouts in last 3 days about Espinoza; their attempts to temper enthusiasm always fails. He sounds too good to be true Followed that up by comping him to Felix Hernandez and then said: "John Manuel @johnmanuelba 12m12 minutes ago khevey6 The comps I get when I ask scouts are too lofty to repeat responsibly."
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 3, 2015 11:22:53 GMT -5
So here's where I stand from a watching perspective and a ranking perspective.
He's probably got the highest ceiling in the system. Moncada's the only one with an argument in the minors. Ortiz is the only one who's been there, and Bogaerts is the only one with that ceiling in the majors.
That said, he's SOOOOOOO far away that so much could happen, you really can't just evaluate him on that ceiling. Seeing what he does in, hopefully, a couple starts with Greenville will help see how it plays at a higher level, but a big part of it for me is that you have to consider just how far away he is, to some degree, when looking at him.
I'm not saying I won't consider him for the top spot this offseason or begrudge anyone who would put him there. But I do consider how far away he is to be something of a handicap (and his promotion to Greenville, while impressive, doesn't ramp his timetable up for me - I'd assumed he was starting there next year anyway).
That said, if he gets a couple starts and absolutely shoves... we'll see.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 3, 2015 11:23:50 GMT -5
Let's see what Roger Goodell has to say about my excitement for Espinoza.
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 3, 2015 11:35:26 GMT -5
Yeah I'm fine with keeping him at 2/3 for awhile. But I don't think he's as far away as we're making it sound. Assuming health, I'd set the over/under at age 20 for him reaching MLB.
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Post by jrffam05 on Sept 3, 2015 11:41:56 GMT -5
King Espinoza
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,831
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Post by nomar on Sept 3, 2015 12:12:15 GMT -5
Yeah I'm fine with keeping him at 2/3 for awhile. But I don't think he's as far away as we're making it sound. Assuming health, I'd set the over/under at age 20 for him reaching MLB. Depends on how we want to play it considering pitch/inning counts, and the starting of his service clock. DD is said to be an aggressive promoter though.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,418
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Post by ianrs on Sept 3, 2015 12:21:02 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza will pitch in the major leagues at 19. You can put it on the board, yes.
Everybody keeps bringing up Buchholz, but can't we at least agree Espinoza has the highest ceiling of any pitcher we have ever seen at Soxprospects? Even if there is the risk associated.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Sept 3, 2015 12:23:12 GMT -5
I can't tell if it is distortion in the video or not but he looks bigger in the videos than he he said to be. Maybe he has grown some...
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Post by jrffam05 on Sept 3, 2015 12:30:41 GMT -5
He was 5-10 when signed per the Soxprospect release, and I've seen him called 6 - 6'1. Seeing as he is only 17 that could continue to climb.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 3, 2015 12:40:55 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza will pitch in the major leagues at 19. You can put it on the board, yes. Everybody keeps bringing up Buchholz, but can't we at least agree Espinoza has the highest ceiling of any pitcher we have ever seen at Soxprospects? Even if there is the risk associated. I'd say Buchholz's ceiling was just as high, honestly. People forget he was a top 5 prospect in the game in the 2007-08 offseason. What I will say is that Espinoza has shown the most promise and the highest potential ceiling of anyone this low in the system or this young since the site started. We didn't start to feel this good about Buchholz until 2006, when he was 21, when he got a late-season promotion to Wilmington and shoved, and things really took off when he was in Portland to start the following season.
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Post by malynn19 on Sept 3, 2015 12:58:46 GMT -5
His height worries me health wise, but he's athletically built and i don't see anything but fluidity with his arm and body, so could be a lot worse. Also seems inevitable that every young pitching star has to sustain and recover from a serious injury these days. Makes you realize what a hellish scenario Stroman tearing his ACL was, because he still could sustain an elbow injury too and miss another year. Luckily for Toronto they'll still make the playoffs without him playing in the regular season and Stroman should be pitching in October. Health is the biggest risk with him though. Because the stuff is unreal. I know GB rate in the GCL probably has little to no predictive value, but if he continues to be a ground ball pitcher combined with the swing and miss potential he has, we're certainly taking about a frontline starter. His Height? He is 6 ft tall and 17 yrs old of age, so he has room to grow. His Mechanics are very solid, and his push off is great which allows him to generate more speed from his lower 1/2 than his arm/shoulder. We all know anything can happen, we have seen guys being babied that hurt their arms and vice versa. We just need for him to grow, and hope for the best. I'm not a betting man, and I think age or not, he should be promoted when he is ready. We always wish for a guy like this, and now that we have him, we are worrying about things we can not control. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
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Post by borisman on Sept 3, 2015 13:01:52 GMT -5
I was gonna compare him to the King but thought he'd never get that big, physically....and it's Mr. Anderson...or Neo to the rest of us.
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Post by telluricrook on Sept 3, 2015 13:09:35 GMT -5
He was 5-10 when signed per the Soxprospect release, and I've seen him called 6 - 6'1. Seeing as he is only 17 that could continue to climb. He should be full grown by now. He is not going to stretch out to be 6'3 -6'4 so dont get your hopes up.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 3, 2015 13:27:43 GMT -5
Excited for threads about how he's overrated and why Dombrowski didn't sell high on him when he has three not-awesome starts in a row in the majors in 2018.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 3, 2015 13:47:57 GMT -5
He was 5-10 when signed per the Soxprospect release, and I've seen him called 6 - 6'1. Seeing as he is only 17 that could continue to climb. He should be full grown by now. He is not going to stretch out to be 6'3 -6'4 so dont get your hopes up. There's no knowing what his frame will eventually look like, or whether he's finished. That just isn't the case at 17. This chart shows there's still some potential.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Sept 3, 2015 13:54:42 GMT -5
So here's where I stand from a watching perspective and a ranking perspective. He's probably got the highest ceiling in the system. Moncada's the only one with an argument in the minors. Ortiz is the only one who's been there, and Bogaerts is the only one with that ceiling in the majors. That said, he's SOOOOOOO far away that so much could happen, you really can't just evaluate him on that ceiling. Seeing what he does in, hopefully, a couple starts with Greenville will help see how it plays at a higher level, but a big part of it for me is that you have to consider just how far away he is, to some degree, when looking at him. I'm not saying I won't consider him for the top spot this offseason or begrudge anyone who would put him there. But I do consider how far away he is to be something of a handicap (and his promotion to Greenville, while impressive, doesn't ramp his timetable up for me - I'd assumed he was starting there next year anyway). That said, if he gets a couple starts and absolutely shoves... we'll see. Yeah, I think sometimes there's a misunderstanding on the nature of risk when evaluating prospects ... to me, prospects are valuable to the extent that they will contribute to the major league team. That's fairly obvious. Now, there's obviously risk/reward in that evaluation, and it's not just "he's not as talented as we think and may fail later," as I think some people interpret that as. It also includes the chances that he gets hurt, not inconsiderable when you are talking about a 17 year-old kid hurling a white sphere at very unnatural velocities. A lot needs to go right for Espinoza to contribute to the Boston Red Sox. Only part of that is his performance panning out ... and that needs to be taken into account in assessing value. There's a reason Kiley will only go as far as saying he may crack the Top 100. He may be the most talented pitcher the Sox minor league system in at least 30 years, but that still doesn't obviate the risk inherent in any GCL pitcher. Although, I gotta say, he may just destroy SAL at the beginning of next year, and I still may not consider him #1. Moncada's got 8 potential, as well, and he's a position player and closer to the majors. If he blasts through Salem and gets to Portland by end of May ... of course, at that point it'd just be embarrassing even having the conversation about which is better.
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pd
Rookie
Posts: 239
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Post by pd on Sept 3, 2015 14:15:17 GMT -5
I like Emperor Espinoza, or just The Emperor.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 3, 2015 14:52:52 GMT -5
Pedro II
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 3, 2015 15:39:42 GMT -5
.and it's Mr. Anderson...or Neo to the rest of us. Yeah, we're not gonna top this, guys. He is The One. WRT to Buccholz, we're sort of splitting hairs, and he certainly had the ceiling of a legit ace, but based on Manuel and some other comments I've read Espinoza is seen as being potentially more special than that, a generational type (like the pitching version of Harper, to put it one way). Again, just strictly talking ceiling, with all the caveats about how far away/risky he is a given.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 3, 2015 16:30:27 GMT -5
For what it's worth, it looks like rain's in the forecast for a lot of the weekend in Greenville, especially Saturday night.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Sept 3, 2015 16:45:18 GMT -5
The last time I remember feeling this good about a prospect his far away was Bogaerts. Don't ever remember a pitcher getting hyped this early in the Sox system. I know Buchholz had very high expectations later in his minor league career and to be fair if he was more durable he'd probably be one of the top pitchers in the game over the last 7 years.
I think it's safe to say Espinoza might be my new prospect Binky and it's very sad that the 2015 season is coming to an end.
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Post by telson13 on Sept 3, 2015 17:36:34 GMT -5
Let's see what Roger Goodell has to say about my excitement for Espinoza. View AttachmentWow, that is priceless.
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