SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by burythehammer on Jul 7, 2015 12:24:22 GMT -5
That's two balls in the air against Espinoza in three starts, reliability of GCL play-by-play notwithstanding.
|
|
|
Post by quintanariffic on Jul 7, 2015 12:43:00 GMT -5
Brings his season line to a silly: 27 IP 21H 2 ER 5BB 31K There's nobody in the Lowell rotation that I wouldn't bump to piggyback duty for Espinoza. Hell, he might be ready for Lowell now, although that Tampa lineup had some sorry looking stats. Should we start taking bets on the date? Pretty sure this would be a first in the John Henry era - no one else I'm aware of has ever moved from DSL to GCL to NYP-L in the same season. I'd actually be surprised if they did it.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 7, 2015 13:15:43 GMT -5
There's nobody in the Lowell rotation that I wouldn't bump to piggyback duty for Espinoza. Hell, he might be ready for Lowell now, although that Tampa lineup had some sorry looking stats. Should we start taking bets on the date? Pretty sure this would be a first in the John Henry era - no one else I'm aware of has ever moved from DSL to GCL to NYP-L in the same season. I'd actually be surprised if they did it. It would indeed be a first. The scouting reports we're getting would justify it.
|
|
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
|
Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 7, 2015 13:19:11 GMT -5
There's nobody in the Lowell rotation that I wouldn't bump to piggyback duty for Espinoza. Hell, he might be ready for Lowell now, although that Tampa lineup had some sorry looking stats. Should we start taking bets on the date? Pretty sure this would be a first in the John Henry era - no one else I'm aware of has ever moved from DSL to GCL to NYP-L in the same season. I'd actually be surprised if they did it. I'd be surprised myself just because he is 17 and in the states for the 1st time. I could see him move even faster next year if he keeps these video-game lines going. He may just follow Devers path and skip Lowell next season and "start" at Greenville.....with a promotion to Salem in July. The kid is something else, but getting acclimated in the States before promoting may be what happens. Now don't get me wrong, I love having the opportunity to get to see him periodically (here in Florida) but I want him to progress as fast as feasible. It my perfect dream world he would pull a "Gooden" and be in our rotation when he was 20.....but I doubt that would be good for him!
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 7, 2015 13:19:50 GMT -5
Well, there is a first for everything.
|
|
ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,414
|
Post by ianrs on Jul 7, 2015 13:26:55 GMT -5
The scouting and the results are absolutely bananas for Espinosa. This is RH-version of Julio Urias territory. Yup, I said it. But not really anybody can touch Urias (and I hate comparisons). 18 years old in AA putting up a 0.944 WHIP, 2.55 FIP, 2.2 BB/9, 11.5 K/9. Except a select few in the past (Felix Hernandez comes to mind, he was also in SS-A at 17, same with Dwight Gooden... thus Espinoza should be moved there). Another fun fact: Dwight Gooden struck out 300 batters in single-A at 18 years old.
Half-seriously: move him to Greenville or Lowell!
Remember when Christopher Acosta and Anderson Espinosa were considered roughly equivalent prospects due to a lack of information outside of signing bonus?
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2015 13:40:00 GMT -5
I would strongly consider keeping him in the GCL for the rest of the year for non-baseball reasons. He's a 17-year-old kid who is adjusting to a new country and a new lifestyle, and the GCL has the sort of infrastructure (housing, language/life coaching, etc.) you'd want him to be exposed to. He'll still be plenty age-advanced, since you could easily start him in Greenville next year as an 18-year-old.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,787
|
Post by nomar on Jul 7, 2015 13:46:11 GMT -5
The scouting and the results are absolutely bananas for Espinosa. This is RH-version of Julio Urias territory. Yup, I said it. But not really anybody can touch Urias (and I hate comparisons). 18 years old in AA putting up a 0.944 WHIP, 2.55 FIP, 2.2 BB/9, 11.5 K/9. Except a select few in the past (Felix Hernandez comes to mind, he was also in SS-A at 17, same with Dwight Gooden... thus Espinoza should be moved there). Another fun fact: Dwight Gooden struck out 300 batters in single-A at 18 years old. Half-seriously: move him to Greenville or Lowell! Remember when Christopher Acosta and Anderson Espinosa were considered roughly equivalent prospects due to a lack of information outside of signing bonus? Espinoza was the consensus best pitcher still
|
|
ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,414
|
Post by ianrs on Jul 7, 2015 14:09:31 GMT -5
I would strongly consider keeping him in the GCL for the rest of the year for non-baseball reasons. He's a 17-year-old kid who is adjusting to a new country and a new lifestyle, and the GCL has the sort of infrastructure (housing, language/life coaching, etc.) you'd want him to be exposed to. He'll still be plenty age-advanced, since you could easily start him in Greenville next year as an 18-year-old. Fair enough, had not thought of the cultural adjustments outside of baseball. Either way as you said, he will be plenty age-advanced regardless of whether he is promoted this season.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 7, 2015 14:11:43 GMT -5
The scouting and the results are absolutely bananas for Espinosa. This is RH-version of Julio Urias territory. Yup, I said it. But not really anybody can touch Urias (and I hate comparisons). 18 years old in AA putting up a 0.944 WHIP, 2.55 FIP, 2.2 BB/9, 11.5 K/9. Except a select few in the past (Felix Hernandez comes to mind, he was also in SS-A at 17, same with Dwight Gooden... thus Espinoza should be moved there). Another fun fact: Dwight Gooden struck out 300 batters in single-A at 18 years old. Half-seriously: move him to Greenville or Lowell! Remember when Christopher Acosta and Anderson Espinosa were considered roughly equivalent prospects due to a lack of information outside of signing bonus? Espinoza was the consensus best pitcher still Not really. MLB.com's list favored Acosta. mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2014/#list=intAnd the only lists I was aware of were BA and MLB at the time. Were there others?
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2015 14:23:01 GMT -5
Pretty sure this would be a first in the John Henry era - no one else I'm aware of has ever moved from DSL to GCL to NYP-L in the same season. I'd actually be surprised if they did it. It would indeed be a first. The scouting reports we're getting would justify it. Yeah, not saying it wouldn't be highly unusual, but Espinoza is looking more and more like that sort of singular talent. He's seen essentially no change in results going DSL to GCL, and when a guy's sporting a 0.00 ERA in three starts with a BAA around .150, it's probably a sign he's ready to be tested again.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2015 14:25:15 GMT -5
Urias is probably going to make the majors next year at 19 and maybe even get a start or two in September this year. Espinoza would be on that same track only if he makes it to Greenville this year. It's probably going to be more about strength and durability than ability and results. Of course this is a great big hypothetical that assumes no setbacks or injuries.
I don't ever think there will be another Gooden throwing 218 innings as a 19 year old and 276 as a 20 year old. I don't know how he didn't break down.
Also, how the hell is Gooden not in the Hall of Fame?
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2015 14:27:21 GMT -5
Pretty sure this would be a first in the John Henry era - no one else I'm aware of has ever moved from DSL to GCL to NYP-L in the same season. I'd actually be surprised if they did it. I'd be surprised myself just because he is 17 and in the states for the 1st time. I could see him move even faster next year if he keeps these video-game lines going. He may just follow Devers path and skip Lowell next season and "start" at Greenville.....with a promotion to Salem in July. The kid is something else, but getting acclimated in the States before promoting may be what happens. Now don't get me wrong, I love having the opportunity to get to see him periodically (here in Florida) but I want him to progress as fast as feasible. It my perfect dream world he would pull a "Gooden" and be in our rotation when he was 20.....but I doubt that would be good for him! Gooden actually won 17 games and broke Herb Score's rookie K record (276 I think) at age 19. Man, Doc was stupid good for a few years there. As Rick James once said, "cocaine's a hell of a drug."
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 7, 2015 14:27:27 GMT -5
Espinoza makes Acosta look like the forgotten man now. He seems like more of a project, which seems highly appropriate for a 17 year old where Espinoza seems to be just stupid good at baseball for his age. Hopefully he turns into a MLBer as well, he's not off to a great start but he's 17 and it's a sss. Between Espinoza, Moncada, and Benintendi........the org has done pretty well this year at pumping talent in the system.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2015 14:32:01 GMT -5
I would strongly consider keeping him in the GCL for the rest of the year for non-baseball reasons. He's a 17-year-old kid who is adjusting to a new country and a new lifestyle, and the GCL has the sort of infrastructure (housing, language/life coaching, etc.) you'd want him to be exposed to. He'll still be plenty age-advanced, since you could easily start him in Greenville next year as an 18-year-old. Speaking Spanish only in Lowell would actually probably be very little issue. Good points...though I'd still like to see them challenge him performance-wise. I think results will demonstrate when maybe he's reached his limit.
|
|
|
Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 7, 2015 14:47:26 GMT -5
I would strongly consider keeping him in the GCL for the rest of the year for non-baseball reasons. He's a 17-year-old kid who is adjusting to a new country and a new lifestyle, and the GCL has the sort of infrastructure (housing, language/life coaching, etc.) you'd want him to be exposed to. He'll still be plenty age-advanced, since you could easily start him in Greenville next year as an 18-year-old. Speaking Spanish only in Lowell would actually probably be very little issue. Good points...though I'd still like to see them challenge him performance-wise. I think results will demonstrate when maybe he's reached his limit. half the team is former DSL players. I would also think the Sox have spanish speaking coaches in their clubhouses moving up the system. Also, I wonder how many of these kids actually know some English, or speak it fluently to begin with. Some of his tweets have been in or partially in English.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jul 7, 2015 14:54:11 GMT -5
Espinoza makes Acosta look like the forgotten man now. He seems like more of a project, which seems highly appropriate for a 17 year old where Espinoza seems to be just stupid good at baseball for his age. Hopefully he turns into a MLBer as well, he's not off to a great start but he's 17 and it's a sss. Between Espinoza, Moncada, and Benintendi........the org has done pretty well this year at pumping talent in the system. I really hope the Red Sox do not forget about 17 year old pitchers 12 innings after they were given a $1.5M bonus. Is there any real benefit to promoting Espinoza this early? I could understand if he was a polished hitter who was dominating mistake pitches in the GCL, but as a pitcher there's nothing he can't work on against younger hitters that he can't work on against older. It also wouldn't accelerate his timeline to the majors in any way. I'm all for keeping him put for now to get use to the US.
|
|
|
Post by brnichols19873 on Jul 7, 2015 14:56:42 GMT -5
Speaking Spanish only in Lowell would actually probably be very little issue. Good points...though I'd still like to see them challenge him performance-wise. I think results will demonstrate when maybe he's reached his limit. half the team is former DSL players. I would also think the Sox have spanish speaking coaches in their clubhouses moving up the system. Also, I wonder how many of these kids actually know some English, or speak it fluently to begin with. Some of his tweets have been in or partially in English. Taking a look at the Lowell roster it appears that 5 Venezuelan players are currently on the team: Acosta, Basabe, Suarez, Gonzalez, and Martinez. In addition to 10+ Dominican, one would assume Spanish speaking players...Thus, he is surrounded by 15+ Spanish speaking players all within 2 years of his age... In terms of living arrangements it appears that they live and eat in the umass dorms just feet away from thr feild and all meals are taken care of: Per a 2011 Lowell Sun article, "The organization takes advantage of LeLacheur Park's proximity to UMass Lowell by housing all players on the second floor of the Donahue Hall dorm in apartment-style suites. The exceptions are players on rehab assignments. They are put up in a local hotel for a couple nights before returning to their original teams. Dining is never a problem when the team is at home. All meals are paid for by the Red Sox. Breakfast and lunch are served at an on-campus dining hall. Dinner is provided after games at LeLacheur Park's Gator Pit. "We're fortunate for the fact that we're on the campus of UMass Lowell," says Spinners GM Tim Bawmann. "It's a nice situation for the kids. They don't have to have a car, the ballpark is 100 yards from where they live, and the lunch hall and the rec center are across the street." With all this in mind it would seem that the transition would not be a major issue as he would have structure and culture already established in lowell and i would be willing to guess the situation is at lrast comparable to Florida and the GCL....
|
|
|
Post by trotnixonforever on Jul 7, 2015 15:12:06 GMT -5
Espinoza makes Acosta look like the forgotten man now. He seems like more of a project, which seems highly appropriate for a 17 year old where Espinoza seems to be just stupid good at baseball for his age. Hopefully he turns into a MLBer as well, he's not off to a great start but he's 17 and it's a sss. Between Espinoza, Moncada, and Benintendi........the org has done pretty well this year at pumping talent in the system. I really hope the Red Sox do not forget about 17 year old pitchers 12 innings after they were given a $1.5M bonus. Is there any real benefit to promoting Espinoza this early? I could understand if he was a polished hitter who was dominating mistake pitches in the GCL, but as a pitcher there's nothing he can't work on against younger hitters that he can't work on against older. It also wouldn't accelerate his timeline to the majors in any way. I'm all for keeping him put for now to get use to the US. It's not just about working on things, he's got to learn to adjust to hitters and give them different looks. If he's just blowing away guys with heat, he isn't really going to learn anything. I do agree that 3 starts isn't enough to justify a promotion...maybe if he keeps pitching like this after a couple more starts. He's basically embarrassing every lineup he faces.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,261
|
Post by radiohix on Jul 7, 2015 15:13:24 GMT -5
Re: Urias. I think some teams skip the whole Advanced A level, when the affiliate is in the California league, with their top prospects because of the extreme offensive nature of the level and the repercussions that it might induce on the prospect pitching/offensive approach...The Rangers done it with Profar too. Of course he's a supremely talented kid, but I think that he would not skip A+ if the Dodgers affiliate was in the Carolina League.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 7, 2015 15:15:21 GMT -5
Potential benefit developmentally is that he gets challenged sooner if they think he's polished enough to handle the jump. This isn't like Lowell to Greenville where there's arguably a very small difference in talent level. Also begins learning to handle night games and road trips sooner. In theory, if you think he's good enough to jump to Salem next year, a promotion to Lowell this year could move that timeline up a little bit.
As for the player, well, would you rather play games midday for a handful of scouts and parents in "Fort Misery" or night games in front of fans in the NYPL?
FWIW, I get all the arguments against the promotion because I'm usually the one making them. But even I'd acknowledge they're not reasons "against" promoting him so much as reasons why it'd typically not be something they'd do.
I don't think it's imminent. I think it's something they'll consider if he keeps this up the next two, three times through the rotation. Steen would arguably be more imminent.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 7, 2015 15:19:39 GMT -5
Re: Urias. I think some teams skip the whole Advanced A level, when the affiliate is in the California league, with their top prospects because of the extreme offensive nature of the level and the repercussions that it might induce on the prospect pitching/offensive approach...The Rangers done it with Profar too. Of course he's a supremely talented kid, but I think that he would not skip A+ if the Dodgers affiliate was in the Carolina League. From what I see, Urias was in low A when he was 16 and high A when he was 17. This year he's in AA at 18. (birthday is in August) He pitched for Rancho Cucamonga in the CAL all last year.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jul 7, 2015 15:21:39 GMT -5
half the team is former DSL players. I would also think the Sox have spanish speaking coaches in their clubhouses moving up the system. Also, I wonder how many of these kids actually know some English, or speak it fluently to begin with. Some of his tweets have been in or partially in English. Taking a look at the Lowell roster it appears that 5 Venezuelan players are currently on the team: Acosta, Basabe, Suarez, Gonzalez, and Martinez. In addition to 10+ Dominican, one would assume Spanish speaking players...Thus, he is surrounded by 15+ Spanish speaking players all within 2 years of his age... In terms of living arrangements it appears that they live and eat in the umass dorms just feet away from thr feild and all meals are taken care of: Per a 2011 Lowell Sun article, "The organization takes advantage of LeLacheur Park's proximity to UMass Lowell by housing all players on the second floor of the Donahue Hall dorm in apartment-style suites. The exceptions are players on rehab assignments. They are put up in a local hotel for a couple nights before returning to their original teams. Dining is never a problem when the team is at home. All meals are paid for by the Red Sox. Breakfast and lunch are served at an on-campus dining hall. Dinner is provided after games at LeLacheur Park's Gator Pit. "We're fortunate for the fact that we're on the campus of UMass Lowell," says Spinners GM Tim Bawmann. "It's a nice situation for the kids. They don't have to have a car, the ballpark is 100 yards from where they live, and the lunch hall and the rec center are across the street." With all this in mind it would seem that the transition would not be a major issue as he would have structure and culture already established in lowell and i would be willing to guess the situation is at lrast comparable to Florida and the GCL.... Great points. I was not aware that Lowell had this structured of an environment. If that's the case, it would not be as big of an adjustment as I initially suggested.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,261
|
Post by radiohix on Jul 7, 2015 15:30:05 GMT -5
You're right, Pretty sure I've read somewhere that he skipped the whole California League a la Profar which I thought was understandable.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 7, 2015 15:38:16 GMT -5
half the team is former DSL players. I would also think the Sox have spanish speaking coaches in their clubhouses moving up the system. Also, I wonder how many of these kids actually know some English, or speak it fluently to begin with. Some of his tweets have been in or partially in English. Taking a look at the Lowell roster it appears that 5 Venezuelan players are currently on the team: Acosta, Basabe, Suarez, Gonzalez, and Martinez. In addition to 10+ Dominican, one would assume Spanish speaking players...Thus, he is surrounded by 15+ Spanish speaking players all within 2 years of his age.. " i would be willing to guess the situation is at lrast comparable to Florida and the GCL".... Much, much better. LaLacheur park is really nice. Surrounding area can get a bit dicey, but the immediate area is what you'd expect from a nice, new park...largely gentrified and prettied up.
|
|
|