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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 27, 2015 16:14:46 GMT -5
Or maybe it's just helping keep is innings at a level the organization is comfortable with. Rain or no rain, he'll get bumped to Lowell this year if and when the Sox feel he's ready for the next step. Yeah, it looks like he could probably handle it, but there may be some reason the team doesn't want to send him up to Lowell this summer. It shouldn't have any effect on his ability to earn a rotation spot in Greenville next spring.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 29, 2015 8:20:15 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Jul 29, 2015 8:47:01 GMT -5
I would bring this guy up to Lowell or even Greenville. If he is as good as advertised let him face some like competition while he fills out his innings limit? There are enough Latin player on both teams to help him with acclamation.
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Post by jmei on Jul 29, 2015 9:24:51 GMT -5
Nice clean delivery, hitters seemed consistently late on his fastball.
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Post by beantown on Jul 29, 2015 9:26:56 GMT -5
Just looking at the video, that velocity looks so easy for him. Has me wondering if he will be able to reach back and touch 99-100 in the next couple of years when he needs to - for a tough spot/inning (ala Verlander). That arm-side run is really impressive too, the fastball just scoots away from lefties. The hype is only going to get louder
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Post by brnichols19873 on Jul 29, 2015 9:59:11 GMT -5
3 plus or better offerings according to Norris, very impressive...
"The righty showed a fastball that touched as high as 98 mph, sat comfortably for four inning between 95-97 and never dipped lower than 93. The pitch featured sink and run away from lefthanders, and Espinoza showed an ability to spot in on both sides of the plate. On the occasions he failed to finish the pitch, it stayed up and away to lefties.
To complement the fastball, Espinoza brought a pair of pitches that could easily grade as plus or better in the future. The first was a 12-6 curveball in the low-70s that, when he threw it right, featured sharp, tight break that will allow him to get swings and misses. He also threw a low-80s changeup with plenty of fade. He got multiple swings and misses on the pitch on Tuesday."
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 29, 2015 10:15:06 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 29, 2015 11:49:41 GMT -5
Nice clean delivery, hitters seemed consistently late on his fastball. Love the way he worked both sides of the plate too. Also, I see he now has an 8 potential on this site.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 7, 2015 13:54:03 GMT -5
X posting from the GDT
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 7, 2015 15:21:49 GMT -5
For reference, the fastest average FB for a starter in MLB this year is 96.3 (Eovaldi)
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Post by blizzards39 on Aug 7, 2015 22:18:35 GMT -5
For reference, the fastest average FB for a starter in MLB this year is 96.3 (Eovaldi) What is kelly? ERod?
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Post by templeusox on Aug 8, 2015 10:35:44 GMT -5
The kid is a walking James Andrews appointment.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 8, 2015 10:47:25 GMT -5
The kid is a walking James Andrews appointment. It's not as pronounced as on some of the pitchers who've made that trek, but it's there. Found myself wondering about the motion as I watched the video. I'd need to see more, but the overall strain looks substantial.
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Post by jchang on Aug 8, 2015 10:53:55 GMT -5
I think Dr Andrews has a standing appt for all the flame throwers. Its really great the Espinoza has a 97+ FB (with movement?) now somebody should tell him to pitch in the low 90's so he can work on a mix of pitches, command and all that good pitching stuff before there was a radar gun. People moaned how Owens FB was 88-91 in the minors. Was anyone surprised it was 93 for the MFY? Ignore the radar gun keeps Dr Andrews away (no offense Dr A)
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 8, 2015 11:22:22 GMT -5
Long before radar guns and Dr. Andrews, we were told that throwing screwballs and curveballs caused elbow problems, especially for teenagers. Many coaches wouldn't allow kids to throw breaking stuff. Kids threw fastballs most of the time. I know I hurt my elbow throwing a screwball because I remember the pain when it happened. The elbow still hurts on occasion.
We were taught standard windups and the stretch position. It wasn't until (I think) Bob Turley came along with his no windup style that things began to change. Yes, there were some major league pitchers with exaggerated windups, but in amateur ball, as I recall, it was pretty unusual.
Of course, in those years there wasn't nearly the knowledge of sports medicine and how various injuries occurred and/or could be prevented, or at least diminished. When a pitcher suffered a serious elbow or shoulder injury his career usually was over.
Still, I wonder whether the twisting stress of throwing curves, sliders, and cutters still may be more responsible for injuries than throwing hard. But I am just speculating.
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danr
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Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 8, 2015 11:27:30 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 8, 2015 12:02:10 GMT -5
Long before radar guns and Dr. Andrews, we were told that throwing screwballs and curveballs caused elbow problems, especially for teenagers. Many coaches wouldn't allow kids to throw breaking stuff. Kids threw fastballs most of the time. I know I hurt my elbow throwing a screwball because I remember the pain when it happened. The elbow still hurts on occasion. We were taught standard windups and the stretch position. It wasn't until (I think) Bob Turley came along with his no windup style that things began to change. Yes, there were some major league pitchers with exaggerated windups, but in amateur ball, as I recall, it was pretty unusual. Of course, in those years there wasn't nearly the knowledge of sports medicine and how various injuries occurred and/or could be prevented, or at least diminished. When a pitcher suffered a serious elbow or shoulder injury his career usually was over. Still, I wonder whether the twisting stress of throwing curves, sliders, and cutters still may be more responsible for injuries than throwing hard. But I am just speculating. Kids shouldn't throw those pitches because you can throw your arm out by throwing them incorrectly one time. They need a lot of instruction.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 8, 2015 12:15:48 GMT -5
I think Dr Andrews has a standing appt for all the flame throwers. Its really great the Espinoza has a 97+ FB (with movement?) now somebody should tell him to pitch in the low 90's so he can work on a mix of pitches, command and all that good pitching stuff before there was a radar gun. People moaned how Owens FB was 88-91 in the minors. Was anyone surprised it was 93 for the MFY? Ignore the radar gun keeps Dr Andrews away (no offense Dr A) Guys who don't throw hard get Tommy John. Guys who throw hard get Tommy John. I'll take the guy who throws hard.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 8, 2015 14:49:24 GMT -5
The kid is a walking James Andrews appointment. I don't see it. Delivery looks clean and mechanically sound to me. Then again, 95-99 at 17 is unusual. Of course, there are freaks of nature out there...see Ryan, Nolan; Johnson, Randy; Chapman, Aroldis.
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Post by jchang on Aug 8, 2015 17:12:57 GMT -5
I think Dr Andrews has a standing appt for all the flame throwers. Its really great the Espinoza has a 97+ FB (with movement?) now somebody should tell him to pitch in the low 90's so he can work on a mix of pitches, command and all that good pitching stuff before there was a radar gun. People moaned how Owens FB was 88-91 in the minors. Was anyone surprised it was 93 for the MFY? Ignore the radar gun keeps Dr Andrews away (no offense Dr A) Guys who don't throw hard get Tommy John. Guys who throw hard get Tommy John. I'll take the guy who throws hard. In absolute MPH terms yes. My comment was in terms relative to each pitchers capability. Since we have wide access to the radar gun, too many pitching scout (perhaps more so on the arm chair side) are putting too much emphasis on velocity and this feedback reaches the pitching prospects who then believe that an extra mph or two will help them grade at the next level up. So the throw harder than they should and end up needing surgery. I am not saying I don't like pitchers who throw hard, but I am cautious on pitchers throwing hard to impress scouts (pro and non-pro) preferring a pitcher who stays within what his arm can do, staying healthy.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 8, 2015 17:37:07 GMT -5
I've said this in the draft threads, but I'm quite skeptical of radar readings of high school pitchers. It seems that they never come close to hitting those #s again. Espinoza is at least under Red Sox coaching and not just throwing as hard as he possibly can to impress scouts.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 9, 2015 12:25:01 GMT -5
Guys who don't throw hard get Tommy John. Guys who throw hard get Tommy John. I'll take the guy who throws hard. In absolute MPH terms yes. My comment was in terms relative to each pitchers capability. Since we have wide access to the radar gun, too many pitching scout (perhaps more so on the arm chair side) are putting too much emphasis on velocity and this feedback reaches the pitching prospects who then believe that an extra mph or two will help them grade at the next level up. So the throw harder than they should and end up needing surgery. I am not saying I don't like pitchers who throw hard, but I am cautious on pitchers throwing hard to impress scouts (pro and non-pro) preferring a pitcher who stays within what his arm can do, staying healthy. If avoiding Tommy John were as easy as that, pitchers wouldn't have it so often. Jose Fernandez can hit 99 but averages about 94.5. Didn't help.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,923
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 9, 2015 14:59:29 GMT -5
The kid is a walking James Andrews appointment. I don't see it. Delivery looks clean and mechanically sound to me. Then again, 95-99 at 17 is unusual. Of course, there are freaks of nature out there...see Ryan, Nolan; Johnson, Randy; Chapman, Aroldis. I also see little or no markers of the sort of mechanics that indicate elbow stress, and the velo seems easy and relatively low-effort. I will defer to any expert who says he has a little bit of elbow stress in his delivery, however. Double however, the cause of the recent epidemic of TJ surgery is very well understood -- so well understood that Smoltz made it the topic of the end of his induction speech. And it has nothing to do with mechanics. Young HS pitchers pitch year-round now, going to multiple showcases in order to enhance their draft ranking and college offers. It's patently insane, but I imagine the showcases are profitable to those who run them, and until very recently, despite warnings by doctors, kids felt they were unable to risk not participating. Now that the causal link was been established (which is to say, now that the medical warnings have proven to be accurate), MLB teams (and perhaps colleges) are starting to put a value on kids who have avoided pitching year-round. Obviously, none of this applies to Latino pitchers. I don't have the time, but maybe someone else can hunt down the online database of TJ surgery, and if it's up-to-date, can verify that the recent upsurge in young pitchers needing TJ has only happened to U.S. kids. Going back to Espinoza, if he does have a delivery with a little stress, he may be looking at possible TJ surgery in his 30's, like most of the pitchers in MLB. It would only be a warning sign for imminent surgery if he had been abused like the stateside kids.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 9, 2015 16:00:16 GMT -5
I don't see it. Delivery looks clean and mechanically sound to me. Then again, 95-99 at 17 is unusual. Of course, there are freaks of nature out there...see Ryan, Nolan; Johnson, Randy; Chapman, Aroldis. I also see little or no markers of the sort of mechanics that indicate elbow stress, and the velo seems easy and relatively low-effort. I will defer to any expert who says he has a little bit of elbow stress in his delivery, however. Double however, the cause of the recent epidemic of TJ surgery is very well understood -- so well understood that Smoltz made it the topic of the end of his induction speech. And it has nothing to do with mechanics. Young HS pitchers pitch year-round now, going to multiple showcases in order to enhance their draft ranking and college offers. It's patently insane, but I imagine the showcases are profitable to those who run them, and until very recently, despite warnings by doctors, kids felt they were unable to risk not participating. Now that the causal link was been established (which is to say, now that the medical warnings have proven to be accurate), MLB teams (and perhaps colleges) are starting to put a value on kids who have avoided pitching year-round. Obviously, none of this applies to Latino pitchers. I don't have the time, but maybe someone else can hunt down the online database of TJ surgery, and if it's up-to-date, can verify that the recent upsurge in young pitchers needing TJ has only happened to U.S. kids. Going back to Espinoza, if he does have a delivery with a little stress, he may be looking at possible TJ surgery in his 30's, like most of the pitchers in MLB. It would only be a warning sign for imminent surgery if he had been abused like the stateside kids. Kids throw less now than they did in the 60's or 70's. Yes the show cases and organized ball are more intense. I think from past posts you are my age or older. We played catch, grounders, BP, most days. No pitch counts in the organized play. I played center for a kid that pitched 14 innings and had to be over 160 pitches one game. Can't happen today. We also did winter indoor clinics every sat.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 9, 2015 16:15:21 GMT -5
I really don't know anything about now, but in the 70s and early 80s when I was playing little league in Vermont, we'd have maybe a 2 month season and then a couple weeks of traveling all-stars. That was it for the year, through about age 14. And there were league rules about inning limits. Then again, that's about how long the season could ever be in Vermont.
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