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7/7-7/8 Red Sox vs. Marlins Series Thread
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 8, 2015 21:38:02 GMT -5
I don't think the better results and Hanigan's return are unrelated.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,370
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Post by radiohix on Jul 8, 2015 21:39:30 GMT -5
Pfff...Technicality The CWS have tied.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,370
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Post by radiohix on Jul 8, 2015 21:42:01 GMT -5
I don't think the better results and Hanigan's return are unrelated. There's his awesome OBP skills to begin with.
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TX
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Post by TX on Jul 8, 2015 22:31:46 GMT -5
It's gonna be a moot point after we got swept by the MFY and this place is going to return to be the doom and gloom thread like it has been for a year and a half! Don't hate on me brotha, just trying to reverse jinx that coming series The reverse jinx doesn't work if you announce it. Reverse jinx, reverse shminx; the MFY are going to clobber us Their pitchers are better, their fielders are better, their offense is better, they're better.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 8, 2015 22:39:37 GMT -5
Ortiz should be the 1B for a while here. The team is definitely better with Hanley at DH and Ortiz at 1st than with Hanley in Left and Ortiz at DH. I know a lot of experts including most of the mlb network staff are continuing to say ortiz's bat is slowing down, but i do not think so, just look at his homerun tonight. He is still getting around in pitches. I do not know why he can not hit lefty pitching, but I do not think it is because his bat has lost speed.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,370
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Post by radiohix on Jul 8, 2015 23:04:16 GMT -5
JAYS LOSE!
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Post by ethanbein on Jul 8, 2015 23:07:46 GMT -5
Chicago walks off against Toronto! All of a sudden, win this MFY series and we're right back in it.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 9, 2015 1:03:48 GMT -5
MGL has a twitter message for y'all (and RAJ):
Mitchel Lichtman @mitchellichtman · 60m60 minutes ago
Yes, when an older player HAS played terribly, he LOOKS like he is cooked, but somehow, if you look at those players historically, they...
Mitchel Lichtman @mitchellichtman · 60m60 minutes ago
...perform IN THE FUTURE at their projected levels, which is far above that recent PAST putrid performance, assuming they used to be good.
Mitchel Lichtman @mitchellichtman · 59m59 minutes ago
Why is that so difficult for people to grasp, especially people that get paid millions of dollars for making team personnel decisions?
Mike Napoli RoS projections: ZiPS 107 wRC+, Steamer 114 wRC+.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Jul 9, 2015 7:04:59 GMT -5
MGL has a twitter message for y'all (and RAJ): Mitchel Lichtman @mitchellichtman · 60m60 minutes ago Yes, when an older player HAS played terribly, he LOOKS like he is cooked, but somehow, if you look at those players historically, they... Mitchel Lichtman @mitchellichtman · 60m60 minutes ago ...perform IN THE FUTURE at their projected levels, which is far above that recent PAST putrid performance, assuming they used to be good. Mitchel Lichtman @mitchellichtman · 59m59 minutes ago Why is that so difficult for people to grasp, especially people that get paid millions of dollars for making team personnel decisions? Mike Napoli RoS projections: ZiPS 107 wRC+, Steamer 114 wRC+. That may be true, except for one time: When a player finally goes into an end-of-career tailspin. There is such a thing as "the end." The end.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2015 7:21:30 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a selection bias at play. If they scout well enough to get continued PAs, they regress to the mean. When everyone thinks they look done and they get benched or released/not re-signed, they aren't accruing additional data.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 9, 2015 8:56:31 GMT -5
www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2015/07/red_sox_notebook_tired_pen_needs_help"Daniel Nava, who is rehabbing from a sore thumb in Triple-A, will begin playing first base at some point, but his rehab assignment could last a while. . . . The Red Sox are still unsure if Dustin Pedroia will join them in time for this weekend’s series against the Yankees. . . . Clay Buchholz won’t get his start skipped coming out of the All-Star break like the Sox have done with staff ace Jon Lester in the past."
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 9, 2015 10:11:14 GMT -5
Wondering what the rest of you think after David Ortiz's words last night about being too old to play 1st anymore? For me? I'm somewhat disappointed that he feels he needs to sit down and talk with the brass about asking him to play in the field.
This team has FINALLY started playing well with Napoli out of the middle of the line-up and De Aza playing so well, you'd think he could suck it up and volunteer to play first base 2 (maybe 3 times a week) until they get Nava ready and whatever other things they may be looking into to keep Hanley's bat in the line-up but out of left.
I love Papi, but sometimes he can be so "me, me, me".
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 9, 2015 10:25:18 GMT -5
Wondering what the rest of you think after David Ortiz's words last night about being too old to play 1st anymore? For me? I'm somewhat disappointed that he feels he needs to sit down and talk with the brass about asking him to play in the field. This team has FINALLY started playing well with Napoli out of the middle of the line-up and De Aza playing so well, you'd think he could suck it up and volunteer to play first base 2 (maybe 3 times a week) until they get Nava ready and whatever other things they may be looking into to keep Hanley's bat in the line-up but out of left. I love Papi, but sometimes he can be so "me, me, me". IMO, it's pretty status quo for him. He really does think he's bigger than the game himself. Probably doesn't sit well with majority of fans in NE, but maybe does with fans of the 29 other teams from his actions and the way he acts and things he says to the media.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 9, 2015 10:52:08 GMT -5
I agree with what Ortiz said, just not with how he said it. It comes off as selfish, but really this is a guy who plays a handful of games a year at 1st base, and only when the rules disallow him to only bat. He doesn't have any business playing 1b with any regularity. Although, he does have a .900 OPS and 141 wRC+ while playing first base
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 9, 2015 10:58:40 GMT -5
Ortiz's importance to the Sox is his bat. He is much more likely to get hurt playing first. Everyone should know that. They are taking a big chance by playing him there. And the more it is done the more likely he will get hurt. He knows that and it bothers him, as it should.
Ortiz always says what he is thinking. There's no deception there. But whatever he says, he doesn't take it on the field, as was evidenced last night.
This isn't the same kind of "me, me, me" that we saw with Manny - and for which he was called out by Ortiz - it is just honest candor about the reality of the situation.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2015 11:06:00 GMT -5
He is much more likely to get hurt playing first. Is he really, though? I think there's some increased injury risk, but I'm skeptical that it's meaningful/significant enough to be worth complaining about. They aren't putting him in the outfield where he has to sprint to chase balls down. At first base, he doesn't ever have to really move more than ten feet, and I'm sure they'd be happy to instruct him to avoid the rangier plays (foul popups or popups far behind first base, fielding bunts, etc).
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Post by okin15 on Jul 9, 2015 11:11:25 GMT -5
I don't think at this age that Ortiz should play 1B except when followed by an off day (for him or the team). I actually felt he was a pretty decent fielder when he was younger, but he's clearly pretty creaky now. This is the age when we talk about moving guys off first base, not onto it.
That said, you've got the frigging YANKEES coming to town. Get ready to play 1B on Sunday David, and then you can have 4 days off after cause you're not an all-star any more. Deal with it.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 9, 2015 11:15:25 GMT -5
He is much more likely to get hurt playing first. Is he really, though? I think there's some increased injury risk, but I'm skeptical that it's meaningful/significant enough to be worth complaining about. They aren't putting him in the outfield where he has to sprint to chase balls down. At first base, he doesn't ever have to really move more than ten feet, and I'm sure they'd be happy to instruct him to avoid the rangier plays (foul popups or popups far behind first base, fielding bunts, etc). He has a history of foot, leg and knee injuries. There are any number of ways he can get hurt at 1B, especially - and this was my point - compared to sitting on the bench as a DH. I can't imagine why you would argue this.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 9, 2015 11:30:06 GMT -5
I'm kind of with jrffam. Would've preferred the platitudes to the media, then talk to the team behind closed doors about what he thinks his body can handle. That would be asking Ortiz the person to be someone he's not though, so, whatever.
I mean, is it really crazy to think that at age 39 he can't play in the field regularly anymore? He's the fourth-oldest hitter in baseball behind Ichrio (41!! but a shell of what he once was), A-Rod (turns 40 this month, DH), and Torii Hunter (turns 40 this month, still quite productive). David Ross (part-time C), Pierzynski (productive C), Reed Johnson (barely worth mentioning as he's barely played), and Beltran (relatively productive RF) are the only 38-year-olds. Aramis Ramirez (still ok, full-timer), Marlon Byrd (productive LF), and Willie Bloomquist (bench, unproductive hitter) are the only 37s. Looking at this list, the only similar players are basically ARod and Aramis, right? There's a selection bias here - to still be playing, an older guy needs to be productive - but I get what he's saying. At least one postgame writeup described his legs as "mummified" because he was icing after the game last night.
Like I said, I wouldn't have any problem with him saying he can't play in the field every day or even that often. Just would've been nice if he'd done it in a way other than "hell no," y'know? But whatever really.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 9, 2015 12:19:58 GMT -5
Am a Ortiz fan also, though being 40YO didn't stop HOF like Yaz from playing both LF and 1b more than 50 games combined during the 1980 season and still playing in the field some up until he retired in 1983. Dwight Evans playing nearly 70 games in RF at the age of 40 in '91. I have no pity for someone who doesn't want to play 1b a few games each week in the field.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 9, 2015 12:39:32 GMT -5
Am a Ortiz fan also, though being 40YO didn't stop HOF like Yaz from playing both LF and 1b more than 50 games combined during the 1980 season and still playing in the field some up until he retired in 1983. Dwight Evans playing nearly 70 games in RF at the age of 40 in '91. I have no pity for someone who doesn't want to play 1b a few games each week in the field. Those are not good examples for comparision. They both had different body builds and they both were position players all along. Ortiz has not been a position player except for some interleague and post-season games for many years. His body is not accustomed to it. His muscles are not trained for it. And I don't think he said he didn't want to play. In fact, Bradford said on the radio that Ortiz said he liked playing on the field. What he said was he didn't his body could take it. Too much is being made of something that basically is common sense. And no one on the team is complaining about what Ortiz said. Bradford predicted that there would be an outcry but not from anyone on the team, from the people who really know Ortiz.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 9, 2015 12:52:10 GMT -5
I'm with DanR here ... and remember, Ortiz stopped playing in the field not because he was bad at it (he's actually a pretty good first baseman except for having no range) but because his body just wouldn't handle it. Ortiz is big, real big, and it's not the risk of acute injury on some specific play but the gradual breaking down of a body that never really could handle playing in the field and is now over 40. And I really couldn't care less that he said it out loud. Good for him for knowing his limits. On the other end of the age spectrum, though, Alex Speier with an article about how Mookie is the awesomest, and publishes a chart showing that, at their current pace, Betts and Bogaerts would both end with the highest bWAR for any Sox player 22 years old or younger since 1941 and the 3rd-highest and 6th-highest bWAR seasons ever (in that U-23 division). Only Tris Speaker and Ted Williams would've produced higher than Bogaerts projected 5 bWAR (Ted doing it three times and Tris twice). Of course, this is projection, and they could end up higher or lower, but still ... it's very likely to be the best pair of Sox players at this age on the same team ever,
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 9, 2015 13:02:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the support on Ortiz.
As I previously have written ad nauseam, I am not a big fan of WAR of any kind, but in this case the bWAR ratings of Bogaerts and Betts probably are fair. They certainly are the most promising players to break in at their ages with the Sox at the same since Lynn and Rice. Rice was 22 but Lynn was 23.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 9, 2015 13:24:04 GMT -5
Per the Soxprospects twitter feed Miguel Celestino was traded to the Reds. I'm guessing Cueto and maybe Chapman coming back.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 9, 2015 13:25:58 GMT -5
Per the Soxprospects twitter feed Miguel Celestino was traded to the Reds. I'm guessing Cueto and maybe Chapman coming back. According to Espinoza's agent, he and Celestino have been traded for Cueto
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