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Post by fdrnewdeal on Aug 30, 2015 11:44:44 GMT -5
I never made the comparison, was just responding to the fact there was a question as to whether or not Brentz or Vitek were seen as advanced college hitters.
There are a number of pretty critical differences between the 2, right off the bat:
-The biggest question about Benintendi is that he's undersized. Vitek had the more traditional frame of a baseball player. He also had far less present in game power at the same point in his career. What will be interesting (certainly not the first guy to say this) is whether or not Benentendi's power carries as he advances due to the fact that he's so small.
- Vitek never hit like Benintendi already has as a pro. His debut for Lowell was pretty terrible. He got hot towards the end before his promotion to the Sally but he was whiffing in 25% of his At bats and not showing nearly as much power as Benintendi. Brentz was actually far worse.
-As mentioned above- there was a lot of question as to where Vitek would end up playing. The hope was that he would remain in the infield. He wasn't seen as a potentially plus fielder. Benintendi probably stick at center. That's a huge advantage.
My main concern is that people will look back at the Vitek and Bentz picks and place too much importance on hindsight than how they were regarded at the time of the draft. At the time, getting Vitek, Brentz and Ranaudo was seen as a coup by most observers. It's also a good example as to why you can't judge a draft until years after...
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Post by sdiaz1 on Aug 30, 2015 11:47:27 GMT -5
Here is clip of him simply crushing a ball. It is an absolutely beautiful swing and he get the bat through soo quickly. There does not seem to be to much noise there, just quick and smooth which I love.
However he needs to develop a little more loft to the bat flip.... I see some potential there (it had nice rotation) but that part of his game needs to be developed.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Aug 30, 2015 11:48:50 GMT -5
If you don't count Bryce Harper, 2010 draft college bats' quality was really poor. Top pure hitter was Zack Cox and top power bat was Michael Choice. Where are they? Kolbrin Vitek was top 3 pure hitter and Bryce Brentz was top 3 power bat but does it matter? Scouts were not really high on them. They were ranked high due to terrible quality of college bats.
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Post by bookiemetts on Aug 30, 2015 11:57:20 GMT -5
fdrnewdeal: I think that one of the best things about Benintendi is that he already has the in-game power. For a lot of prospects, the question is whether they can add power as they fill in and rise through the system, and in that sense he's already ahead of the curve.
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Post by fdrnewdeal on Aug 30, 2015 12:12:33 GMT -5
If you don't count Bryce Harper, 2010 draft college bats' quality was really poor. Top pure hitter was Zack Cox and top power bat was Michael Choice. Where are they? Kolbrin Vitek was top 3 pure hitter and Bryce Brentz was top 3 power bat but does it matter? Scouts were not really high on them. They were ranked high due to terrible quality of college bats. I worry about delving too deeply into subjective terms such as "high on" but I don't think this is entirely accurate. Keith Law had a lot of great things to say about Vitek at the time of the draft. There was some speculation that he was going to go 9th overall, had (wait for it) Karsten Whitson not been available at number 9. Vitek was seen as a plus athlete with a plus hit skill. Not wanting to derail the conversation totally, I'll add that he really has nothing to do with Andrew Benintendi. The fact that the draft class looks weak now in 2015 could mean that it wasn't well regarded at the time... or it could just mean that attrition is a hell of a thing.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Aug 30, 2015 16:19:09 GMT -5
One thing that can't be denied is the swing of Benintendi. He has by far the prettiest swing in the system. Counterpoint: Devers. Devers has a beautiful swing but Benintendi is more advanced. Benintendi has 4 less homeruns than Devers since he signed alone.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Aug 30, 2015 16:45:57 GMT -5
Devers has a beautiful swing but Benintendi is more advanced. Benintendi has 4 less homeruns than Devers since he signed alone. Yes, of course Benintendi is more advanced. But Benintendi was also struggling in the SEC at one year of age older than Devers' current stretch of holding his own in the SAL. They both have great swings, but the term age advancement exists for a reason as well.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 30, 2015 17:01:19 GMT -5
The age gap between Devers and Benintendi is huge. Comparing their stats isn't going to tell you much IMO.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 30, 2015 17:09:29 GMT -5
Can we table the Vitek/Brentz stuff by now? People misinterpreted what I said and go ahead and blame me for it again but if you effing read what I said it was absolutely true. Vitek and Brentz were considered by Law and others as some of the very best college bats that year and look what they did in Lowell compared to what Benintendi did. They completely tanked in Lowell and Benintendi was as advertised. That was the point not what you guys are reading into it. When a guy is as advertised with his results that says a whole lot to me. 29 HR in a year in 370 at bats and he's not done yet. Currently hitting .340 in Greenville with major pop. Those 1.4 walk/K rates are terrific and the ability to drive the ball already plus the solid defense puts this guy at the very top of the conversation to me. The kid is, if anything, still underated in my opinion.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2015 17:13:17 GMT -5
Can we table the Vitek/Brentz stuff by now? People misinterpreted what I said and go ahead and blame me for it again but if you effing read what I said it was absolutely true. Vitek and Brentz were considered by Law and others as some of the very best college bats that year and look what they did in Lowell compared to what Benintendi did. They completely tanked in Lowell and Benintendi was as advertised. That was the point not what you guys are reading into it. When a guy is as advertised with his results that says a whole lot to me. 29 HR in a year in 370 at bats and he's not done yet. Currently hitting .340 in Greenville with major pop. Those 1.4 walk/K rates are terrific and the ability to drive the ball already plus the solid defense puts this guy at the very top of the conversation to me. The kid is, if anything, still underated in my opinion. If you want it tabled, stop talking about it. Repeatedly, it has been said that it there is no comparison of 'best college bat' between different draft years. Yet you continue to compare them as if it's a meaningful discussion. It's as meaningless as comparing Benintendi to any other Red Sox prospect ranked 8th at any point in time. If you want to compare two players, they should be held in the same exact regard and have similar scouting reports regardless of where they rank as college hitters in each draft year. Benintendi is so different than Brentz or Vitek, as can be seen by the difference in where they were drafted for one.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 30, 2015 17:34:18 GMT -5
Should I compare Benintendi to the "worse college bats"? Why say ANYTHING if it's going to be nit picked to death? Others were comparing Moncada to Mike Trout for God's sake on another thread. Why don't you nit pick them? One of the best college bats this year was Benintendi. Some of the ones in prior years were Vitek and Brentz. This is LOGICAL DISCUSSION, not irrelevance and saying the only comparison was that they were all "human" is the ridiculous comment. One guy appears to be performing above expectations if anything and the other 2 are going nowhere. It happens. It appears Benintendi is for real, unlike other recent top bat picks. I didn't make it an issue. You did. What I said absolutely was relevant and if you don't get the relevance that's your problem. Try not to repeat it again.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Aug 30, 2015 17:39:22 GMT -5
Should I compare Benintendi to the "worse college bats"? Why say ANYTHING if it's going to be nit picked to death? Others were comparing Moncada to Mike Trout for God's sake on another thread. Why don't you nit pick them? One of the best college bats this year was Benintendi. Some of the ones in prior years were Vitek and Brentz. This is LOGICAL DISCUSSION, not irrelevance and saying the only comparison was that they were all "human" is the ridiculous comment. One guy appears to be performing above expectations if anything and the other 2 are going nowhere. It happens. It appears Benintendi is for real, unlike other recent top bat picks. I didn't make it an issue. You did. What I said absolutely was relevant and if you don't get the relevance that's your problem. Try not to repeat it again. If you want to use logic... Benintendi was one of the best college bats this year. Vitek and Brentz were some of the better college bats other years. This year's class does not equal the draft classes from other years. Since "best" is a relative term, the argument is over; this is a non argument due to a nonequivalent comparison. People were also complaining about the Moncada-Trout comparisons. Generally comparisons are a bad idea because they always seem to end in arguments like this... Let's call Benintendi's debut great and hope he turns into the best possible player he can be.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2015 17:51:48 GMT -5
Should I compare Benintendi to the "worse college bats"? Why say ANYTHING if it's going to be nit picked to death? Others were comparing Moncada to Mike Trout for God's sake on another thread. Why don't you nit pick them? One of the best college bats this year was Benintendi. Some of the ones in prior years were Vitek and Brentz. This is LOGICAL DISCUSSION, not irrelevance and saying the only comparison was that they were all "human" is the ridiculous comment. One guy appears to be performing above expectations if anything and the other 2 are going nowhere. It happens. It appears Benintendi is for real, unlike other recent top bat picks. I didn't make it an issue. You did. What I said absolutely was relevant and if you don't get the relevance that's your problem. Try not to repeat it again. If you really have to, compare him to a similar player, not Brentz or Vitek. Moncada was compared to Trout because he has put up Trout #s this year and has the same build and speed and even their swings look the same. Obviously that's a pipe dream, but there is way more of a basis than "best college bats in different draft years".
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 30, 2015 17:55:54 GMT -5
I can't really think of a good Benny comp though
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 30, 2015 18:00:18 GMT -5
I can't really think of a good Benny comp though Yaz
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Post by fdrnewdeal on Aug 30, 2015 18:08:48 GMT -5
Is the Yaz line sarcasm? If not, I think we need to give people a break when they compare draft eligible college hitters, 5 years apart from another.
Comps are generally not that useful. One that's made some sense to me is Kole Calhoun with more defensive value and few ks. Now that all being said, Calhoun's been worth close to 7 wins these past 2 years, so I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to take that comparison as gospel. Just similar size and power.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 30, 2015 18:28:12 GMT -5
There's no lefty non-1B in baseball who hits for power and doesn't strikeout like Benintendi has so far. Adrian Gonzalez has but obviously has a much different frame.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 30, 2015 18:28:34 GMT -5
Benintendi reminds me a little of Fred Lynn in that he had a mature college bat when signed and a solid walk/K ratio right from the beginning. Left hand swing with some power. Moved through the system quickly. Above average OF defender. Lynn was probably considered a better defender but some of those GG were probably related to his overall star power IMO. If Beni comes anywhere near that comp all of us would be extremely happy.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 30, 2015 19:07:34 GMT -5
I can't really think of a good Benny comp though I was thinking Barry Bonds. He wasn't all that big coming out of Arizona St
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Post by rasimon on Aug 30, 2015 19:16:46 GMT -5
JD Drew
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 30, 2015 20:00:57 GMT -5
If you have to have a comp, Brian Giles works just fine. Let's see if Benintendi gets anywhere near that career.
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Post by jmei on Aug 31, 2015 0:09:19 GMT -5
Yeah, Benintendi's about three or four inches shorter, but I always thought that the swing was very Drew-ish.
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Post by soxfan1615 on Aug 31, 2015 0:11:44 GMT -5
Man, I miss that guy. Unbelievable the hate he got here. He was worth every penny and more of that contract. Oh what I'd give to have a plus defensive OF with a .400+ OBP and a .500+ SLG in RF again
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Post by tonyc on Aug 31, 2015 0:23:28 GMT -5
Yaz was a comp not in terms of swing, but size, just an inch taller and 5 lbs heavier, yet managed 40 hrs in 3 different seasons by taking a very aggressive cut.
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Post by sammo420 on Aug 31, 2015 6:21:57 GMT -5
Will he probably be a consistent 30-35 HR guy? Probably no, but we haven't developed one of those guys for a very long time. Who knows what will happen but Beni's numbers have been outstanding. FWIW, there were 11 30 HR hitters last year and 14 the year before, so a lot of teams haven't developed one of those guys in a long time. (And BTW, one last year was Rizzo and the year before one was Moss, so my guess is there are teams who have gone longer...) Rub it in, why don't ya? That one still stings.
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