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Acquiring an Ace: FA or Trade?
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 29, 2015 8:48:11 GMT -5
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Post by akiva on Nov 29, 2015 9:12:03 GMT -5
The comments in that article make my brain hurt. Hamels is a better pitcher than Price? Let's just wait for E-Rod? Yikes.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,827
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 29, 2015 9:25:27 GMT -5
Hahaha Cafardo
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Nov 29, 2015 9:27:49 GMT -5
There is also no guarantee Lester would've taken that deal. I kinda think he was going to the highest bidder all along.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 29, 2015 9:33:54 GMT -5
Cafardo isn't my favorite but being fair, the comments aren't Cafardo's, they are from the general public.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 29, 2015 9:37:45 GMT -5
But why is he interviewing the general public for a story like this? This isn't a story by the local news. Go find out what actual front office members have to say.
Also, isn't it a little weird that the quotes that made it into his article seem to reflect his own opinions? (Particularly the Hamels stuff)
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Post by akiva on Nov 29, 2015 10:05:55 GMT -5
But why is he interviewing the general public for a story like this? This isn't a story by the local news. Go find out what actual front office members have to say. Also, isn't it a little weird that the quotes that made it into his article seem to reflect his own opinions? (Particularly the Hamels stuff) Those were actually comments posted underneath the article, sadly by actual people who have opinions actually that bad. The article itself doesn't really say much new, he disagrees with Gammons' source that DD would be willing to best the next offer by 30-40 million, without having any basis for doing so, and mentions Hanley maybe getting traded. That's it.
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brisox
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Post by brisox on Nov 29, 2015 10:38:23 GMT -5
Papi/ Price is overblown neither of these Multi- millionaires could care less about anything but winning. Papi's only issue with Price is his playoff record. The sox have one year left to cash in on his immense International Popularity , so they are going to listen to him to a degree. He also is no Clay fan as he doesn't think he is a gamer.If Clay has a fast start like he has in the past he'll be gone quickly for prospects. Price is their guy. Greinke came here . it didn't go well. Henry will give whatever $ is needed. Price doesn't cost us a pick and after Dombro essentially went against his entire FO for Kimbrel , if he trades more young talent he will have a riot on his hands. The point about overbidding is a good one, and considering the age, success in the AL east, and relative consistency, they will overbid to get him before December 10th.
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Post by soxcentral on Nov 29, 2015 10:56:44 GMT -5
Brisox, just curious...are the following your opinions or are they coming from a source:
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brisox
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Posts: 87
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Post by brisox on Nov 29, 2015 11:00:47 GMT -5
Brisox, just curious...are the following your opinions or are they coming from a source: How could any of those comments be an opinion? I can't say more.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Nov 29, 2015 11:28:36 GMT -5
Brisox, just curious...are the following your opinions or are they coming from a source: How could any of those comments be an opinion? I can't say more. In that case maybe u said too much
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 29, 2015 11:49:48 GMT -5
Zimmerman to Tigers.
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Post by deepjohn on Nov 29, 2015 12:06:54 GMT -5
Papi/ Price is overblown neither of these Multi- millionaires could care less about anything but winning. Papi's only issue with Price is his playoff record. The sox have one year left to cash in on his immense International Popularity , so they are going to listen to him to a degree. He also is no Clay fan as he doesn't think he is a gamer.If Clay has a fast start like he has in the past he'll be gone quickly for prospects. Price is their guy. Greinke came here . it didn't go well. Henry will give whatever $ is needed. Price doesn't cost us a pick and after Dombro essentially went against his entire FO for Kimbrel , if he trades more young talent he will have a riot on his hands. The point about overbidding is a good one, and considering the age, success in the AL east, and relative consistency, they will overbid to get him before December 10th. Brisox, I agree with everything in your post, but would need to question your source on the bolded. As I understand it, the FO did not value Margot highly because of his poor, and hardly improving splits, while Guerra was a sell-high on a popup bat. Am I wrong? Margot splits: AA vs. R .236/.288/.313 vs. L .381/.443/.746 A (adv) vs. R .244/.276/.370 vs. L .391/.451/.565
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Post by Alonzo on Nov 29, 2015 12:08:31 GMT -5
Kinda glad Zimmermann is off the table. He could have been a typical desperation signing after missing out on the top 2/3 arms. Tigers make a lot of sense due to their protected 1st round pick. But they are certainly aiming lower than a few years ago. Scherzer plus Price > Price > Zimmermann
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 29, 2015 12:26:10 GMT -5
Then what does Lester have to do with? Lester we'd have been paying $52.5-60 million to during the last three years of his deal - Or about $17.5-$20 million per year - Not the preposterous $40 million per year Price would be getting on the back end of his deal. One's a reasonable contract. The other's a turd biscuit the likes of the Yank's deal with Sabathia. Unless you assume that no matter what was said, you believe exactly what happened - that Lester signed the biggest contract and the Red Sox didn't get a discount. If you believe this is a possibility, then you should compare 7/155 to whatever Price gets adding a year of inflation. There is so much hindsight and a lack of perspective on the Lester negotiations it's not even funny. Lester was barely worth more than 4/70 at the time it was offered. People were freaking arguing over whether the team should pick up his option in 2014 at a few points.
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Post by jiant2520 on Nov 29, 2015 12:34:17 GMT -5
I really was not a fan of Zimmermann anyway... at least not as our #1 pitcher.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 29, 2015 13:45:51 GMT -5
Zimmerman off board to Tigers is most likely a bad thing, simply because it added another suitor to the limited pool of FA arms. Dodgers were heavily linked to Zimmerman the last few weeks, so that would have been really great for Sox fans, taking them out of the bidding for Price/Greinke.
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Post by akiva on Nov 29, 2015 13:59:42 GMT -5
Zimmerman off board to Tigers is most likely a bad thing, simply because it added another suitor to the limited pool of FA arms. Dodgers were heavily linked to Zimmerman the last few weeks, so that would have been really great for Sox fans, taking them out of the bidding for Price/Greinke. I see it this way too. Dodgers, Giants and Cubs may now be in on Price. One will take Greinke, Cubs may take Shark, but I don't see the other team settling for Cueto. Dombrowski obviously is confident he can get his man, but now he needs to act quickly.
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Post by PedroKsBambino on Nov 29, 2015 14:21:23 GMT -5
Zimmerman off board to Tigers is most likely a bad thing, simply because it added another suitor to the limited pool of FA arms. Dodgers were heavily linked to Zimmerman the last few weeks, so that would have been really great for Sox fans, taking them out of the bidding for Price/Greinke. I see it this way too. Dodgers, Giants and Cubs may now be in on Price. One will take Greinke, Cubs may take Shark, but I don't see the other team settling for Cueto. Dombrowski obviously is confident he can get his man, but now he needs to act quickly. There are still a lot of moving parts in the starting pitching market and while all those teams may turn their attention to Price, I think it could have the opposite effect. Teams like the Cubs and Giants may look at this signing and decide they would rather allocate less money to the second tier starters like Leake, Samardzija, Chen and Kazmir rather than spend 200 plus million on David Price.
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Post by Alonzo on Nov 29, 2015 14:26:33 GMT -5
Zimmerman off board to Tigers is most likely a bad thing, simply because it added another suitor to the limited pool of FA arms. Dodgers were heavily linked to Zimmerman the last few weeks, so that would have been really great for Sox fans, taking them out of the bidding for Price/Greinke. I never bought into the Dodgers and Zimmermann thing. Again, I wouldn't have wanted Zimmermann, even after missing out on both Greinke and Price. The Ex-Nat is a perfect #2, just like Cueto and likely as good as Lester, but he's got that pick attached to him. It's not surprising to me that a team with a protected pick signed him. What we need is a true #1 and that is Price or Greinke. If that's not going to happen, we can just go with what we currently have. But if they HAVE to get a #2 (one tier behind the elite), I would rather have Cueto who comes without compensation. I expect Johnny to sign for the same value as Zimmermann but for 1 more year (6/132)...I may be underestimating the concerns about his elbow, so it might also be a 5 year term with a slightly higher AAV than Zimmermans. For the record: Don't think it's a given that we will end up with one of Price/Greinke, but either of them would have to reject the highest offer since I don't think DDo will allow anyone to outbid us. The main competition is LA and SanFran plus maybe the Cubs and Cardinals, but I don't think either of those teams (except the Dodgers), would bid 200m+ to get Price, so it leaves us and the Dodgers. Outcome 1: First move: Red Sox - Price Second move: Dodgers - Greinke Giants - Cueto Cubs - Lackey Cards - Samardzija Outcome 2: Giants - Greinke Dodgers - Price Red Sox - Cueto Cubs - Samardzija Seattle - Iwakuma Cards - Lackey I expect the Red Sox or Giants to move first. Giants will not go for Price, because I also expect them to re-sign Leake which also costs them around 80m. Not even sure the Dodgers make a strong push for Price. To be honest, the more I am thinking about it, the more sense it makes for us to get Price. There is an obvious fit and we are likely the only ones willing to break the bank for him. Gun to my head: Price signs at the start of the winter meetings with us for 7/210 (same as Scherzer but without the deferred money)
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 29, 2015 16:22:52 GMT -5
For everyone saying the Sox need to move quickly on Price, it's not always that easy. Price's best option may be holding out how Scherzer did last year when he signed January 20/21st. Maybe the glut of starters on the market will change things, but you never know.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 29, 2015 16:33:25 GMT -5
It's disturbing to see people here arguing vehemently for a 7 year / $235 million contract for Price when the same crowd was just as vehemently arguing against a 6 year / $105 million contract for Lester. Serious to God, watching Sox management (and much of their fanbase) fumble with the financial aspects of the game has become a surreal annual off-season event - Not unlike being forced to helplessly observe some entirely avoidable catastrophe unfold over and over again. Well 6 years and 105 is funny, because the Team never offered that and Lester would never have taken that deal. Now Lester might have accepted a 5 year 105 million deal, but not 6 years before the season started. I would have signed him to a 5 year and 105 million deal no problem. That's about what I feel he is worth. In offseason when he was a free agent I would have offered a little more as we really needed him. But what the Cubs gave him was just Crazy. Last year he had a bwar of 2.9, at about 7 million a war on free agent market that puts his value at around 20 million. The Cubs got a negative return on the first year of the deal, never a good sign. Lester is a really good number 2, being paid like an elite ace.
As much as we need Price 7 years and 235 million is a crazy deal. Not sure there are many teams that would give out that deal. I for one don't see the Cubs giving out that deal, maybe the Giants you never know with them. Doesn't sound like the Yankees will be in on him. I know it only takes one team, but who is that going to be?
I go after him hard with a 6 year deal worth 210 million, with a player opt out after 3 years. I hope he pitchers lights out for 3 years opts out and sign with another team for 5 more years of his decline. I would rather pay him more for less years then be stuck with an extra year at an average of 33.57 million.
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Post by xanderdu on Nov 29, 2015 16:38:35 GMT -5
Price lives in Nashville. The Winter Meetings are here in a few days. He'll be at the meeting for a big media presser after signing his monster deal, then celebrate with his family and friends. This is his hometown show, and he's going to play it up big.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 29, 2015 16:44:55 GMT -5
I take that as Lester just saving face with teammates. In what world should/would Lester take a deal just barley over what Homar Bailey got? Sure Bailey was a little bit younger but he is not even close to the pitcher Lester has been. You never know maybe Lester was just joking with a friend. When you hear this stuff you can't believe it all. You have to ask does that make sense? In this case it makes zero sense. Maybe he takes 106 million but not over 6 years. Sounds like something taken out of context to me. I can see Lester say yea I would sign here for a little bit more then Bailey got mean the total amount he signed for and the Friend saying to Gammons yea Lester would have signed for a dollar more then Baileys got and Gammons reporting ""'I was told that (Lester) told teammates that when they met in March, if they offered him one dollar more than the six-year, $105 million that Homer Bailey got, he would take it,' Gammons said. 'But they didn’t.'"
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Post by Alonzo on Nov 29, 2015 16:46:27 GMT -5
For everyone saying the Sox need to move quickly on Price, it's not always that easy. Price's best option may be holding out how Scherzer did last year when he signed January 20/21st. Maybe the glut of starters on the market will change things, but you never know. I felt that the market for Scherzer was a lot tougher to predict, he didn't have that obvious fit besides the Nats connection to Boras. This year some big market teams are desperate for frontline pitching and are also willing to act quickly. If Dombrowski hands out a huge contract, he is likely gonna do it within the next few weeks...and then Price can take it or leave it. Would he reject the Scherzer-deal just because he might get more in january?
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