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Post by xanderdu on Dec 1, 2015 9:55:40 GMT -5
They very well could be, but Baez and Sole aren't in the same category yet as Bradley, and the Cards still need to make the investment in Heyward, plus fix 1B. They also have Wainwright coming back to ease the sting of losing Lynn so aren't desperate to gain a starter. Sox aren't desperate either and it's entirely possible no deals happen for the Indians starter. But St Louis has lost Lynn and may lose Lackey so AW only replaces one of them. "Fixing" 1B seems like an easier thing to do (Find a platoon partner for either Moss or Adams, might be enough if you have a dominant staff and the rest of the lineup in good shape) I'm not suggesting Baez/Soler, straight up, would do it but there is a match there (with some other pieces involved) given Chicago's desire for pitching (and one would think CHEAP pitching with Lester's deal and Arrieta needing an extension soon). On that, it probably just depends on which version of Baez you believe in and which version of Bradley you believe in (and which one you prefer). Both come with flaws but with high potential as well (though much of the value in Baez would come from his ability to play SS, a position that Cleveland already has resolved). Excellent points. I'd favor the Cards in your scenario then. There trade options are more proven at the ML level and that's what the Indians want. For all their hype, Baez and Soler still have to prove themselves in the show. It's possible the Indian d want to stockpile talent, but I think they believe themselves close, and want that piece that gets them to the playoffs. Ozuna with the Marlins is an option also.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 1, 2015 9:56:51 GMT -5
Carrasco isn't good enough to anchor this rotation. They need someone better. Of course the guy we all want in Price can't perform in the playoffs.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 1, 2015 10:28:40 GMT -5
Carrasco isn't good enough to anchor this rotation. They need someone better. Of course the guy we all want in Price can't perform in the playoffs. Carrasco would immediately be our #1 SP. The FO thought Hanley/Pablo wouldn't be albatross contracts after the FIRST year. I know it's not my money, but I don't want another massive contract on the books, especially for 7 or 8 years.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 1, 2015 10:43:16 GMT -5
Carrasco isn't good enough to anchor this rotation. They need someone better. Of course the guy we all want in Price can't perform in the playoffs. Carrasco would immediately be our #1 SP. The FO thought Hanley/Pablo wouldn't be albatross contracts after the FIRST year. I know it's not my money, but I don't want another massive contract on the books, especially for 7 or 8 years. And I don't really want to gut the farm for a 29 year old who broke out for about a season and a half. Just remember that they would have to give up one or multiple prospects up in that deal that they'd almost have to replace via free agency at some point in the future.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Dec 1, 2015 10:56:45 GMT -5
Carlos Carrasco is not coming through that door. In 108 Stitches yesterday, Speier said that the Sox investigated trading for a #1 and mentioned Carrasco specifically, but found they were unobtainable for what the Sox had. That's what led to turning to the trade market for relief pitching.
If Carrasco could be obtained for JBJ+, he'd already be in Boston.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 1, 2015 11:00:57 GMT -5
Carrasco would immediately be our #1 SP. The FO thought Hanley/Pablo wouldn't be albatross contracts after the FIRST year. I know it's not my money, but I don't want another massive contract on the books, especially for 7 or 8 years. And I don't really want to gut the farm for a 29 year old who broke out for about a season and a half. Just remember that they would have to give up one or multiple prospects up in that deal that they'd almost have to replace via free agency at some point in the future. I don't think we would need to "gut" the farm for Carrasco or Salazar. JBJ + Owens....AB & or Moncada will be up in a few years when Young & your 4th OF (either Parra or De Aza) hits their expiration date. I may be way in the minority here, I just don't see the benefit of signing anyone not named Kershaw or Trout (maybe Stanton) to this type of contract 7/8 years @ 210/250. If Cleveland won't go there, maybe add a smaller piece.
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 1, 2015 11:12:44 GMT -5
Carlos Carrasco is not coming through that door. In 108 Stitches yesterday, Speier said that the Sox investigated trading for a #1 and mentioned Carrasco specifically, but found they were unobtainable for what the Sox had. That's what led to turning to the trade market for relief pitching. If Carrasco could be obtained for JBJ+, he'd already be in Boston. Thanks for that. I guess I better start that subscription with Alex. With that news, I'd say we're done after the Price deal then. If Price signs, I'd give a B+ to DDO for his first years efforts. The strength of the prospects traded keeps it from an A
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 1, 2015 11:14:15 GMT -5
And I don't really want to gut the farm for a 29 year old who broke out for about a season and a half. Just remember that they would have to give up one or multiple prospects up in that deal that they'd almost have to replace via free agency at some point in the future. I don't think we would need to "gut" the farm for Carrasco or Salazar. JBJ + Owens....AB & or Moncada will be up in a few years when Young & your 4th OF (either Parra or De Aza) hits their expiration date. I may be way in the minority here, I just don't see the benefit of signing anyone not named Kershaw or Trout (maybe Stanton) to this type of contract 7/8 years @ 210/250. I Cleveland won't go there, maybe add a smaller piece. It would take a lot more than that or it would be done. And then you'd have to replace JBJ and Owens for this year.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 1, 2015 11:35:53 GMT -5
Jared Carrabis @jared_Carrabis 4m4 minutes ago Per @jimbowden_ESPN, "From what I'm hearing, the Boston Red Sox won't let Price get away." Projects deal of 7 years, $213.5M. t.co/mHD16j5YOk
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 1, 2015 13:35:59 GMT -5
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick 1 min. #Redsox and #Cubs are teams that could match up with Atlanta on a Shelby Miller deal, said person familiar with #Braves thinking.
FWIW
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Post by Legion of Bloom on Dec 1, 2015 13:45:49 GMT -5
Atlanta has coveted JBJ for quite a while now, he'd most likely be the guy they want.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 1, 2015 13:45:57 GMT -5
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick 1 min. #Redsox and #Cubs are teams that could match up with Atlanta on a Shelby Miller deal, said person familiar with #Braves thinking. FWIW I read this as "Two teams that have a crapton of U-25 assets and are in the market for starting pitching could trade for a starting pitcher, said a person who enjoys stating the obvious who I don't mind citing as a pseudo-source like I'm reporting something."
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 1, 2015 13:49:28 GMT -5
Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick 1 min. #Redsox and #Cubs are teams that could match up with Atlanta on a Shelby Miller deal, said person familiar with #Braves thinking. FWIW I read this as "Two teams that have a crapton of U-25 assets and are in the market for starting pitching could trade for a starting pitcher, said a person who enjoys stating the obvious who I don't mind citing as a pseudo-source like I'm reporting something." Just like last year with Cole Hamels. At least this year there is none of those guys available. The Shelby Miller thing won't last long if it's not going to happen. He's young enough that the Braves don't have to trade him if they're not getting a haul.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 1, 2015 14:18:30 GMT -5
Jared Carrabis @jared_Carrabis 4m4 minutes ago Per @jimbowden_ESPN, "From what I'm hearing, the Boston Red Sox won't let Price get away." Projects deal of 7 years, $213.5M. t.co/mHD16j5YOkAs much as the backend of the that deal would scare me I would sign David Price right now for 7 years and 213.5 million. 85% of Dave's work would be done and he could start fine tuning this team to get us a title next year. Been thinking from the start that Price would cost 7 years and 235 or the heck some team might go crazy and give him 8 years and 250 million plus.
I will take price for 7 years at a little over 30 million a year over 5 years and 22 million for Zimmermann. Also don't have to give up the 12th pick which is massive in my book.
Question; What are your thoughts on an player opt out after like 3 years?? I really like the option idea.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 1, 2015 15:26:13 GMT -5
Jared Carrabis @jared_Carrabis 4m4 minutes ago Per @jimbowden_ESPN, "From what I'm hearing, the Boston Red Sox won't let Price get away." Projects deal of 7 years, $213.5M. t.co/mHD16j5YOkAs much as the backend of the that deal would scare me I would sign David Price right now for 7 years and 213.5 million. 85% of Dave's work would be done and he could start fine tuning this team to get us a title next year. Been thinking from the start that Price would cost 7 years and 235 or the heck some team might go crazy and give him 8 years and 250 million plus.
I will take price for 7 years at a little over 30 million a year over 5 years and 22 million for Zimmermann. Also don't have to give up the 12th pick which is massive in my book.
Question; What are your thoughts on an player opt out after like 3 years?? I really like the option idea.
Why? The only way he'd opt-out is if he outperformed his contract and he could get a better one. In that scenario, the Red Sox would be better off keeping him for the terms left. If he didn't opt-out, the contract is already a disaster and it wouldn't end until it's over. I just don't know how anyone thinks a player opt-out is a good deal unless you think it's a certainty that he's going to be great for 3 years and bad for the following 4. That is really specific for it to be likely. To make it even easier to understand, I bet the Dodgers would like to sign Greinke for 3/$73 million right now.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 1, 2015 16:06:08 GMT -5
As much as the backend of the that deal would scare me I would sign David Price right now for 7 years and 213.5 million. 85% of Dave's work would be done and he could start fine tuning this team to get us a title next year. Been thinking from the start that Price would cost 7 years and 235 or the heck some team might go crazy and give him 8 years and 250 million plus.
I will take price for 7 years at a little over 30 million a year over 5 years and 22 million for Zimmermann. Also don't have to give up the 12th pick which is massive in my book.
Question; What are your thoughts on an player opt out after like 3 years?? I really like the option idea.
Why? The only way he'd opt-out is if he outperformed his contract and he could get a better one. In that scenario, the Red Sox would be better off keeping him for the terms left. If he didn't opt-out, the contract is already a disaster and it wouldn't end until it's over. I just don't know how anyone thinks a player opt-out is a good deal unless you think it's a certainty that he's going to be great for 3 years and bad for the following 4. That is really specific for it to be likely. To make it even easier to understand, I bet the Dodgers would like to sign Greinke for 3/$73 million right now. Why does he need to outperform the contract? The price per WAR seems to be increasing a ton each year. I would say him opting out means that he has pitched very well for Boston. Reason I like it is that some other team can buy his decline years. We've seen elite pitchers year after year fall a part when they start getting to mid thirties. Ask yourself what's more likely that Price isn't worth what he's making the last 3/4 years of a 7 year deal or he's good value and your glad you gave him a 7 year deal? Even as good as Price is I would put the odds at 20% that you are glad you gave him 7 years and I think that's quite high. Just to name a few recent Aces that have declined a ton Sabthia, Lee, Holliday and maybe Verlander.
Just looked at the top 40 pitchers based on bWAR and only two players are mid thirties or older; John Lackey and AJ Burnett. Lackey gave us nothing or very bad pitching for 3/5 years he was here. Yes he has pitched very very well for 3/6 years we could have had him, but that's only 50%. Burnett has had good years along with very bad years.
Can't compare Greinke to Price as age and years don't line up. Sure Dodgers would love Grienke for 3 more years whens he's 35, a 7 year Price deal takes him through his age 37 season. That's a huge difference.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 1, 2015 16:28:19 GMT -5
Am I the only who thinks a player will perform better if he is playing for a contract, meaning an opt out after 3 or 4 years? I'd give him the opt out option. If he pitches out of his mind, give the QO, get the pick & let him go. Those are some great pitchers listed above who **** the bed at age 35.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 1, 2015 17:03:02 GMT -5
As much as the backend of the that deal would scare me I would sign David Price right now for 7 years and 213.5 million. 85% of Dave's work would be done and he could start fine tuning this team to get us a title next year. Been thinking from the start that Price would cost 7 years and 235 or the heck some team might go crazy and give him 8 years and 250 million plus.
I will take price for 7 years at a little over 30 million a year over 5 years and 22 million for Zimmermann. Also don't have to give up the 12th pick which is massive in my book.
Question; What are your thoughts on an player opt out after like 3 years?? I really like the option idea.
Why? The only way he'd opt-out is if he outperformed his contract and he could get a better one. In that scenario, the Red Sox would be better off keeping him for the terms left. If he didn't opt-out, the contract is already a disaster and it wouldn't end until it's over. I just don't know how anyone thinks a player opt-out is a good deal unless you think it's a certainty that he's going to be great for 3 years and bad for the following 4. That is really specific for it to be likely. To make it even easier to understand, I bet the Dodgers would like to sign Greinke for 3/$73 million right now. I was just about to defend the opt-out, but Dave Dombrowski just did it for me.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 1, 2015 17:09:15 GMT -5
So what do we think, shut it down then?
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Post by soxfanatic on Dec 1, 2015 17:11:43 GMT -5
So what do we think, shut it down then? I want Cueto!
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Post by thebogeyman on Dec 1, 2015 17:20:50 GMT -5
I say we sign Kazmir and go for an all lefty rotation (Price, Erod, Kazmir, Owens, Johnson).
Kidding...kind of.
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Post by ramireja on Dec 1, 2015 17:42:32 GMT -5
I say we sign Kazmir and go for an all lefty rotation (Price, Erod, Kazmir, Owens, Johnson). Kidding...kind of. Look at that...you didn't even include Miley
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Post by xanderdu on Dec 1, 2015 17:53:01 GMT -5
I say we sign Kazmir and go for an all lefty rotation (Price, Erod, Kazmir, Owens, Johnson). Kidding...kind of. However joking, your post does indicate a need to move a lefty. Seems like Miley is the guy on the outside because I can't see them trading ERod.
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Post by kman22 on Dec 1, 2015 18:04:48 GMT -5
I say we sign Kazmir and go for an all lefty rotation (Price, Erod, Kazmir, Owens, Johnson). Kidding...kind of. I made this joke yesterday and added Miley. Who knew Fenway and Yankee Stadium were so inviting to LHP.
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Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2015 19:32:21 GMT -5
Locking this thread for now. If you'd like to start another thread to discuss an additional SP signing/trade, please feel free to do so.
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