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Red Sox sign Chris Young (OF)
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Post by congusgambler33 on Nov 30, 2015 17:28:02 GMT -5
Two things: -Dave Cameron notes that Chris Young is an extreme pull hitter and an extreme fly ball hitter, both traits that fit Fenway like a glove: www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/red-sox-sign-chris-young-the-shorter/-Chris Young is clearly a platoon player, but he's not that bad versus righties. He has a 82 wRC+ versus RHP over the last three years (654 PAs) and an 83 wRC+ versus RHP over his career, which is bad, but not unplayably bad (it's above replacement level, if not by much). He might be a better hitter versus RHP than Rusney Castillo, for instance (not that that's a high bar or anything). My thinking is that DD is not sure of Castillo's development and wants a fallback option if Castillo continues to struggle with off speed pitches. He looks pretty lost on these offerings. I don't think it has anything to do with JBJ in a trade. Chris Young can handle LF seviceably.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 30, 2015 17:30:19 GMT -5
One more thought - and it's just that, no inside info - but given Dombrowski's love of stars and the slower decline of position players vs. pitchers, it may be possible that Dombrowski has lined up a deal for a young, controllable ace (insert your fave here) for a deal involving Mookie, and then will turn around and buy Hayward instead of Price. Young still goes as a 4th OF and JBJ remains in CF.
Again, pure conjecture. I still don't know how to read this guy.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 30, 2015 17:33:47 GMT -5
The "lefty masher" thing for Chris Young is way overstated. He slashed .189/.310/.351 against lefties from 2013-2014, and our current outfield, (BBC), slashed a combined .312/.363/.490 against lefties in 2015. Young had a nice year against lefties this past season, and his right-handed extreme power will obviously play up in Fenway, but we can't view this in terms of us needing a lefty masher. Our outfield already could handle them. I like this move if he's strictly our 4th OF, pinch hitting, and filling in for a faltering JBJ or Castillo, but we can't just run with his 2015 stats and label him as a "masher," when he just isn't. But solid 4th OF signing, if he actually stays as our 4th. He had a .164 BABIP in 2014 against LHP. The sample size for hitting vs LHP isn't usually big enough to take much from one or even two seasons.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Nov 30, 2015 17:35:04 GMT -5
One more thought - and it's just that, no inside info - but given Dombrowski's love of stars and the slower decline of position players vs. pitchers, it may be possible that Dombrowski has lined up a deal for a young, controllable ace (insert your fave here) for a deal involving Mookie, and then will turn around and buy Hayward instead of Price. Young still goes as a 4th OF and JBJ remains in CF. Again, pure conjecture. I still don't know how to read this guy. I would cry.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 30, 2015 17:35:59 GMT -5
One more thought - and it's just that, no inside info - but given Dombrowski's love of stars and the slower decline of position players vs. pitchers, it may be possible that Dombrowski has lined up a deal for a young, controllable ace (insert your fave here) for a deal involving Mookie, and then will turn around and buy Hayward instead of Price. Young still goes as a 4th OF and JBJ remains in CF. Again, pure conjecture. I still don't know how to read this guy. I've had this thought for several months. If they want to trade for an ace, bye bye Mookie. There aren't any teams trading aces for prospects. And the Red Sox can't afford to trade Xander. Mookie can be replaced with Upton or Heyward.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Nov 30, 2015 17:36:58 GMT -5
The "lefty masher" thing for Chris Young is way overstated. He slashed .189/.310/.351 against lefties from 2013-2014, and our current outfield, (BBC), slashed a combined .312/.363/.490 against lefties in 2015. Young had a nice year against lefties this past season, and his right-handed extreme power will obviously play up in Fenway, but we can't view this in terms of us needing a lefty masher. Our outfield already could handle them. I like this move if he's strictly our 4th OF, pinch hitting, and filling in for a faltering JBJ or Castillo, but we can't just run with his 2015 stats and label him as a "masher," when he just isn't. But solid 4th OF signing, if he actually stays as our 4th. He had a .164 BABIP in 2014 against LHP. The sample size for hitting vs LHP isn't usually big enough to take much from one or even two seasons. I get that. I don't hate this signing at all, and I don't intend to just be a contrarian and hate every move Dave makes. I just hope Young's actually utilized properly and is given a chance to make as large of a positive impact as he can, without JBJ or Castillo losing significant AB's as a result.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 30, 2015 17:39:36 GMT -5
He had a .164 BABIP in 2014 against LHP. The sample size for hitting vs LHP isn't usually big enough to take much from one or even two seasons. I get that. I don't hate this signing at all, and I don't intend to just be a contrarian and hate every move Dave makes. I just hope Young's actually utilized properly and is given a chance to make as large of a positive impact as he can, without JBJ or Castillo losing significant AB's as a result. He has hit lefties well in his career so I don't see why it's hard to expect him to do it for the Red Sox. I don't see anything alarming in his stats and splits. I share your concern that Farrell will use him right because JBJ and Castillo don't have a very long leash with him.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 30, 2015 17:39:51 GMT -5
Hmm. just noting that the LHH Holt the last two years has a small reverse split. In an ultra-small sample size from last year, one with all of 83 PAs, here's the damage Bradley did to lefties: .306/.390/.528. I don't think it's all that meaningful but it is tantalizing, and he'll probably be given an extended chance to continue down that road. I'm with fenway. This is just an excellent signing for a guy who'll probably get those 350-400 ABs in the normal course of the season. Though he's never hit for average, he more than makes up for it with a relatively high OBP. He destroys left-handers, and kills mistakes, a skill he'll get to hone by hammering balls off of and over the monster.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Nov 30, 2015 17:39:40 GMT -5
Note a 40-man move will be needed (I got confused by the coincidental announcement that Rutledge cleared waivers). Mendez, Coyle, Escobar seem to be the likeliest to go, to me. Maybe a 2 for 1 trade is upcoming to address that.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 30, 2015 17:48:26 GMT -5
Excited to see this , of all the ones out there he was the one I wanted. Splits are great against LHP , though every OF on the sox hit better against LHP regardless of what side they hit from , but he is a masher and may give us some flexibility at the winter meetings if someone overwhelms us for Castillo or JBJ. The Indians still have not fixed any of their issues. I know it's still very early, and there are alternatives out there, but a deal around Bradley and Castillo sure looks good for both sides. Sox adding a mid level piece It would give DDo room to negotiate if the Price talks get silly. Having Carrasco is a decent enough upgrade that he could start the season with Carrasoc, Buchholz as his 1, 2 and have a decent chance at the post season. It also gives him another piece to hold in front of Price, by way of, "we are building a powerhouse, join us." If however he were to still sign Price, he'd have to have a spot to deal Buchholz. Or alternatively, and maybe desired, they start the year with ERod in AAA, Kelly in the pen, then after Buchholz has reestablished value, he's dealt and ERod promoted. In the end they will have traded Buchholz, Bradley, Owens and the SD prospects for Carrasco, Kimbrel, and the Buchholz prospects. Assuming the returning prospects slot into areas of need better than Margot or Guerra, this could shake out quite well, with both the Boston team, and the ML system improved. It probably is time to take Dombrowski at his word, something you suggested earlier. A few of those words revolved around Bradley, how much he thinks of his skills as a defender, and how important those skills are across the board. I see another easy way for Young to get at bats. Pedroia needs to be browbeat into taking time off once in a while. When that happens you move the all-star second baseman in waiting - Betts - into the infield and play Young as part of the outfield trio. The team has started making this noise, that Pedroia needs to take it easy on himself, and I'll bet they follow through now that they can.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 30, 2015 17:52:11 GMT -5
He is a platoon candidate and nothing else. No way he starts. But with that......who would he platoon with? Jackie? I doubt it. At least not a full platoon. I guess Holt and/or Shaw could potentially platoon with Chris Young in left field if necessary. I know they were looking for a right-handed 4th outfielder, I just hope they don't have real grand plans for Young. The way Castillo finished last season, it seemed like a platoon with him may be considered. Now.....I'm not sure. If not pricey, it's ok. He was a platoon in N.Y. and will be here unless Rusney/JBJ fail to advance offensively. He kills lefty pitching. I like this signing a lot. Versatility and power into the future to help offset Papi's departure.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 30, 2015 17:52:46 GMT -5
The Indians still have not fixed any of their issues. I know it's still very early, and there are alternatives out there, but a deal around Bradley and Castillo sure looks good for both sides. Sox adding a mid level piece It would give DDo room to negotiate if the Price talks get silly. Having Carrasco is a decent enough upgrade that he could start the season with Carrasoc, Buchholz as his 1, 2 and have a decent chance at the post season. It also gives him another piece to hold in front of Price, by way of, "we are building a powerhouse, join us." If however he were to still sign Price, he'd have to have a spot to deal Buchholz. Or alternatively, and maybe desired, they start the year with ERod in AAA, Kelly in the pen, then after Buchholz has reestablished value, he's dealt and ERod promoted. In the end they will have traded Buchholz, Bradley, Owens and the SD prospects for Carrasco, Kimbrel, and the Buchholz prospects. Assuming the returning prospects slot into areas of need better than Margot or Guerra, this could shake out quite well, with both the Boston team, and the ML system improved. It probably is time to take Dombrowski at his word, something you suggested earlier. A few of those words revolved around Bradley, how much he thinks of his skills as a defender, and how important those skills are across the board. I see another easy way for Young to get at bats. Pedroia needs to be browbeat into taking time off once in a while. When that happens you move the all-star second baseman in waiting - Betts - into the infield and play Young as part of the outfield trio. The team has started making this noise, that Pedroia needs to take it easy on himself, and I'll bet they follow through now that they can. Yeah that's probably not likely to happen whatsoever.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 30, 2015 17:59:30 GMT -5
DD bringing home the bacon!! Nice complementary move for all the reasons stated. Now seal the deal on the #1 starter and let's move the calender to mid-February.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 30, 2015 18:16:46 GMT -5
It probably is time to take Dombrowski at his word, something you suggested earlier. A few of those words revolved around Bradley, how much he thinks of his skills as a defender, and how important those skills are across the board. I see another easy way for Young to get at bats. Pedroia needs to be browbeat into taking time off once in a while. When that happens you move the all-star second baseman in waiting - Betts - into the infield and play Young as part of the outfield trio. The team has started making this noise, that Pedroia needs to take it easy on himself, and I'll bet they follow through now that they can. Yeah that's probably not likely to happen whatsoever. Why, please?
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 30, 2015 18:24:23 GMT -5
Yeah that's probably not likely to happen whatsoever. Why, please? Because Mookie hasn't taken any infield work in quite some time. He'll easily get his full playing time in the OF. Brock Holt will spell Pedroia in the few games Farrell convinces him to sit out. Rutledge/Marrero will be at AAA and will come up if Pedey is DL'd. It's just not a likely scenario you move your best OF-er to the infield to give Pedroia rest. Pedroia is signed long term, they don't benefit from screwing with Mookie.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 30, 2015 18:47:57 GMT -5
Because Mookie hasn't taken any infield work in quite some time. He'll easily get his full playing time in the OF. Brock Holt will spell Pedroia in the few games Farrell convinces him to sit out. Rutledge/Marrero will be at AAA and will come up if Pedey is DL'd. It's just not a likely scenario you move your best OF-er to the infield to give Pedroia rest. Pedroia is signed long term, they don't benefit from screwing with Mookie. Mookie is a 300 bowler and immensely talented. You shouldn't be so worried about his ability to multi-task, if needed. It may never come up, but I think your selling him a bit short here. Then there is the possibility of injury....regression..etc..etc. It's not that far fetched, even if less than ideal. Also, the 40 man doesn't show Rutledge as available. Has he resigned a minor league contract?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 30, 2015 18:49:47 GMT -5
Because Mookie hasn't taken any infield work in quite some time. He'll easily get his full playing time in the OF. Brock Holt will spell Pedroia in the few games Farrell convinces him to sit out. Rutledge/Marrero will be at AAA and will come up if Pedey is DL'd. It's just not a likely scenario you move your best OF-er to the infield to give Pedroia rest. Pedroia is signed long term, they don't benefit from screwing with Mookie. I'm in agreement with much of that, but I also think there will be times when they may want to play both of them - Holt and Betts - in the infield. I can see Betts easily coming up to speed at second during spring training. He seems to adapt very quickly. And while Betts is the best hitting outfielder, and the one with the best all-around skill set, Bradley is a better defender and both he and Castillo have better arms. It just wouldn't surprise me at all if Betts starts games as an infielder. Marrero and Rutledge are good pieces to have around for emergencies, but separate from that possibility, I don't think it's going to be a matter of a few games for Pedroia. He's even acknowledged that he needs to cut it back as a way to cut down on the injuries. He's averaged 138 games since 2011, and that's being kind and leaving out the 75 game season in 2010. Planning for 140 games should be part of the equation. If the team does that, I think Betts at second becomes part of that same equation.
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Post by jmei on Nov 30, 2015 18:51:03 GMT -5
The "lefty masher" thing for Chris Young is way overstated. He slashed .189/.310/.351 against lefties from 2013-2014, and our current outfield, (BBC), slashed a combined .312/.363/.490 against lefties in 2015. Young had a nice year against lefties this past season, and his right-handed extreme power will obviously play up in Fenway, but we can't view this in terms of us needing a lefty masher. Our outfield already could handle them. I like this move if he's strictly our 4th OF, pinch hitting, and filling in for a faltering JBJ or Castillo, but we can't just run with his 2015 stats and label him as a "masher," when he just isn't. But solid 4th OF signing, if he actually stays as our 4th. He's a career .263/.362/.474 hitter versus LHP (122 wRC+) and almost certainly projects to be a better hitter versus LHP than Bradley or Castillo.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 30, 2015 18:51:34 GMT -5
Because Mookie hasn't taken any infield work in quite some time. He'll easily get his full playing time in the OF. Brock Holt will spell Pedroia in the few games Farrell convinces him to sit out. Rutledge/Marrero will be at AAA and will come up if Pedey is DL'd. It's just not a likely scenario you move your best OF-er to the infield to give Pedroia rest. Pedroia is signed long term, they don't benefit from screwing with Mookie. Mookie is a 300 bowler and immensely talented. You shouldn't be so worried about his ability to multi-task, if needed. It may never come up, but I think your selling him a bit short here. Then there is the possibility of injury....regression..etc..etc. It's not that far fetched, even if less than ideal. Also, the 40 man doesn't show Rutledge as available. Has he resigned a minor league contract? In no way am I saying Mookie can't do it. The scenario in question was to give Pedroia a few days rest. It's just not something that happens to spell a player a few games rest. Brock Holt needs the at bats as badly as Chris Young does. Now, massive injury, you'd probably still see Marrero or Rutledge or Holt take the most time at 2nd. Mookie MAYBE, if they were desperate, but it also predicates on the notion that JBJ, Castillo and Young are all raking. Which isn't hugely likely. Rutledge cleared waivers and was assigned to Pawtucket.
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Post by jmei on Nov 30, 2015 18:52:23 GMT -5
Also, the 40 man doesn't show Rutledge as available. Has he resigned a minor league contract? Rutledge cleared waivers and was outrighted to Pawtucket.
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Post by PedroKsBambino on Nov 30, 2015 18:53:42 GMT -5
Update on the signing: 18m18 minutes ago Jon Heyman @jonheymancbs chris young deal with red sox is for 2 years @ken_Rosenthal was 1st with deal
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 30, 2015 18:56:34 GMT -5
Brock Holt and Marrero/Rutledge arefar more likely to get 2B time than Mookie Betts. Maybe he's on the emergency list, but I'd guess that's it.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 30, 2015 19:03:53 GMT -5
Thanks, fellas, for the update on Rutledge....hadn't read that.
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Post by joshv02 on Nov 30, 2015 21:29:32 GMT -5
For people who have kept up the last several years, since MGL wrote his famous series a few years ago (about Eric Karros, iirc), is there any better reason to believe in the myth of the lefty masher?
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Post by arzjake on Nov 30, 2015 21:41:48 GMT -5
Betts is a superstar in the making. Combination speed and power does not grow on tree's. Legit 5 tool player.
Dombrowski trades this player he will be run out of town..
Time to add pitching
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