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Red Sox to sign David Price
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Dec 5, 2015 14:12:12 GMT -5
With 60 million deferred in the Greinke deal, the value is actually 190, 27 mill less than Price. I still think that if the Sox are a good team in 3 years with good young talent coming up and a good future outlook, Price will opt in and stay with them for 32 million per year with no deferments. That is the only part I dislike about the deal is the opt out. By 2018 an ace starter may cost 35 mill per year but it will be interesting to see if Price opts out as a 34 year old. Price came here because the the Sox offered the most money. He will opt out if the market says that he will get more money. Either way the deal looks pretty good now that Greinkes deal look like it does. The big winner in the all may be Jonny Cueto. He's probably looking at 6/150 plus now. Blizzard not to pick on you but alot of people judge deals by the following deals. But the person making the deal does not have the fortune to do the same. Everything should be judged based on the info at hand at that place and time, the information that follows is hindsite for which we all have 20/20 vision, sorta kinda.
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Post by bigpupp on Dec 5, 2015 15:19:27 GMT -5
Price came here because the the Sox offered the most money. He will opt out if the market says that he will get more money. Either way the deal looks pretty good now that Greinkes deal look like it does. The big winner in the all may be Jonny Cueto. He's probably looking at 6/150 plus now. Blizzard not to pick on you but alot of people judge deals by the following deals. But the person making the deal does not have the fortune to do the same. Everything should be judged based on the info at hand at that place and time, the information that follows is hindsite for which we all have 20/20 vision, sorta kinda. I would argue that DDski correcly read the market and made a good deal. It's not that we're judging it with hindsight, it's that he is showing foresight of the market.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 5, 2015 15:47:59 GMT -5
I'm amazed there is so much re: the opt-out. Seriously. There was quite literally zero time to enjoy the moment following the signing before people began whining about the opt out. From the sense of entitlement some Red Sox "fans" display, you'd think we were something other than a team coming off of three last place finishes, four managers and three general managers in the last four years and change. David Price could have played for any team. But, he made at least a three year commitment to us - Despite the fact that the Red Sox organization has not been for the last several years what Red Sox fans often make it out to be. We are not baseball nirvana - Not until we prove we can win on a consistent basis. So, more power to David Price for hedging his bet. If we want him to re-up at the end of three years, then we're going to need to have our stuff together. What are you talking about? Sense of entitlement cause some fan liked the opt out and some fans didn't like it?? You talk as if we are some average run of the mill team. We won 3 championships in 9 years my friend. Sure we have had 3 bad years in a row, but we have used that to develop our stacked system and now have maybe the best young talent in all of the majors. The future looks very bright, that's why I believe Price signed here. A ton of really good young talent and Owners that will spend big for the right players. Oh yea and Owners that have brought us 3 championships in the last 12 years!!!!
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Post by lithuaniansoxfan on Dec 5, 2015 16:10:48 GMT -5
Seriously. There was quite literally zero time to enjoy the moment following the signing before people began whining about the opt out. From the sense of entitlement some Red Sox "fans" display, you'd think we were something other than a team coming off of three last place finishes, four managers and three general managers in the last four years and change. David Price could have played for any team. But, he made at least a three year commitment to us - Despite the fact that the Red Sox organization has not been for the last several years what Red Sox fans often make it out to be. We are not baseball nirvana - Not until we prove we can win on a consistent basis. So, more power to David Price for hedging his bet. If we want him to re-up at the end of three years, then we're going to need to have our stuff together. What are you talking about? Sense of entitlement cause some fan liked the opt out and some fans didn't like it?? You talk as if we are some average run of the mill team. We won 3 championships in 9 years my friend. Sure we have had 3 bad years in a row , but we have used that to develop our stacked system and now have maybe the best young talent in all of the majors. The future looks very bright, that's why I believe Price signed here. A ton of really good young talent and Owners that will spend big for the right players. Oh yea and Owners that have brought us 3 championships in the last 12 years!!!! Actually, 2013 wasn't too bad.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 5, 2015 16:17:04 GMT -5
Seriously. There was quite literally zero time to enjoy the moment following the signing before people began whining about the opt out. From the sense of entitlement some Red Sox "fans" display, you'd think we were something other than a team coming off of three last place finishes, four managers and three general managers in the last four years and change. David Price could have played for any team. But, he made at least a three year commitment to us - Despite the fact that the Red Sox organization has not been for the last several years what Red Sox fans often make it out to be. We are not baseball nirvana - Not until we prove we can win on a consistent basis. So, more power to David Price for hedging his bet. If we want him to re-up at the end of three years, then we're going to need to have our stuff together. Owners that will spend big for the right players. Oh yea and Owners that have brought us 3 championships in the last 12 years!!!! I commend your unbridled enthusiasm for ownership. Go owners! Woot! Woot! Woot!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 6, 2015 3:01:06 GMT -5
No, I wouldn't. Price is an annoying baby and I don't feel different because he had a few prepared quips in a press conference. I disliked John Lackey before they signed him, when they signed him, and after everyone started to dislike him for his bad performance, just like they will with Price in a split second if/when he has a down year. I don't know, I'd be more concerned if he hadn't shown his passion. Things said right after a big win, or big loss, go in one ear and out the other for me. Too much emotion for the statement to have relevance to much. I really like that he took up the cause for a rookie (Archer) who wouldn't get much traction in a battle of words with a vet like Papi. The Globe ran an interview with Brad Park today where I learned he had FBI protection on his visits to Boston. If we could adopt Park as one of our own, we can adopt Price. Hmmmm Pedro or hammer's opinion... m.mlb.com/news/article/158891852/pedro-martinez-excited-about-david-price-deal
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 6, 2015 10:31:43 GMT -5
Right. Let's ask Wally the Green Monster next.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2015 11:25:28 GMT -5
Owners that will spend big for the right players. Oh yea and Owners that have brought us 3 championships in the last 12 years!!!! I commend your unbridled enthusiasm for ownership. Go owners! Woot! Woot! Woot! People love to rip on owners but you should be grateful to have the ownership group we do. How quickly, you forget what it was like before they bought the team. Go talk to a Mets fan about the Wilpons or Marlins fans or fans from countless other teams who have owners who have even more money than Henry and company but don't care about winning. We are very fortunate to have the ownership group we do. Who cares if the are motivated by money when they using winning as the catalyst for that?
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2015 11:33:11 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 11:45:15 GMT -5
Right. Let's ask Wally the Green Monster next. You seem pretty unhappy about the signing of David Price. Why? What should they have done instead?
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 6, 2015 12:34:29 GMT -5
Fixed link
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 6, 2015 12:59:36 GMT -5
There are two ways to read this. One is that a lot of analytical and scouting work was done and they reached a consensus backed up by all the angles. The other is that Dombrowski made it clear to everyone he wanted the result to be that they should sign Price and then everyone came up with what the boss wanted.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 6, 2015 13:18:52 GMT -5
Jeez, that's pretty much what I thought, but it's crazy to see it written.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 6, 2015 13:27:05 GMT -5
Jeez, that's pretty much what I thought, but it's crazy to see it written. The Cole Hamels trade just looks better and better for Texas every day.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2015 15:48:00 GMT -5
Jeez, that's pretty much what I thought, but it's crazy to see it written. Haha that's why none of them have been traded. For one there are not many young good starters our there that equal Betts and Bogaerts value in a straight up trade, never mind adding in Swihart. This is the problem when you have so much good young talent, teams try and rape you.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2015 15:57:03 GMT -5
Jeez, that's pretty much what I thought, but it's crazy to see it written. The Cole Hamels trade just looks better and better for Texas every day. HaHa. Tell me about it. Just went to baseball America and reread the scouting on the prospects they gave up and its a joke. You could argue the package we gave up for Kimbrel was better then what the Phillies got. They waited so long and got one really good prospect and a bunch of so so guys.
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Post by heisenberg on Dec 6, 2015 16:12:02 GMT -5
There are two ways to read this. One is that a lot of analytical and scouting work was done and they reached a consensus backed up by all the angles. The other is that Dombrowski made it clear to everyone he wanted the result to be that they should sign Price and then everyone came up with what the boss wanted.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 17:21:22 GMT -5
There are two ways to read this. One is that a lot of analytical and scouting work was done and they reached a consensus backed up by all the angles. The other is that Dombrowski made it clear to everyone he wanted the result to be that they should sign Price and then everyone came up with what the boss wanted. Hard to believe that all the people in the analytics dept would continue to want to work for DDo if their work has zero value. I'd like to think they have more integrity and pride in their work than that. I believe it's the former, not the latter.
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Post by deepjohn on Dec 6, 2015 17:49:25 GMT -5
There are two ways to read this. One is that a lot of analytical and scouting work was done and they reached a consensus backed up by all the angles. The other is that Dombrowski made it clear to everyone he wanted the result to be that they should sign Price and then everyone came up with what the boss wanted. Ah, the much sought-after internal valuation method is sighted, fleetingly, like a rare bird. The people involved seem to be these: Senior Advisor, Baseball Operations: Bill James Director, Major League Operations: Zack Scott Senior Baseball Analyst: Tom Tippett Assistant Director, Major League Operations: Mike Murov Coordinator, Baseball Operations: Mike Regan Baseball Operations Analysts: Gregory Rybarczyk and Joe McDonald Coordinator, Baseball Systems Development: Shawn O'Rourke Executive Assistant, Baseball Operations: Erin Cox boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bos
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 6, 2015 17:54:43 GMT -5
Honestly I don't know how much analysis you need to do to figure out that if you're going to acquire a pitcher, David Price is probably a good choice.
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Post by jmei on Dec 6, 2015 18:11:03 GMT -5
■ Director of major league operations Zack Scott and the Sox’ analytics team led a study comparing the cost of trading for an ace (which required affixing a dollar figure to prospects and making performance projections) to signing one, delivering a memo to Dombrowski and Hazen toward the end of the World Series that Dombrowski then presented to the owners a couple of days later. This is the exact opportunity cost analysis that I and others applied to the Kimbrel trade. So the front office and ownership apparently agree that this sort of analysis is worthwhile. Of course, that raises the question of whether this analysis was done for the Kimbrel trade, whether their internal analysis agreed with the public consensus, and if so, how they got comfortable with the trade regardless.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 6, 2015 18:23:00 GMT -5
There are two ways to read this. One is that a lot of analytical and scouting work was done and they reached a consensus backed up by all the angles. The other is that Dombrowski made it clear to everyone he wanted the result to be that they should sign Price and then everyone came up with what the boss wanted. Ah, the much sought-after internal valuation method is sighted, fleetingly, like a rare bird. The people involved seem to be these: Senior Advisor, Baseball Operations: Bill James Director, Major League Operations: Zack Scott Senior Baseball Analyst: Tom Tippett Assistant Director, Major League Operations: Mike Murov Coordinator, Baseball Operations: Mike Regan Baseball Operations Analysts: Gregory Rybarczyk and Joe McDonald Coordinator, Baseball Systems Development: Shawn O'Rourke Executive Assistant, Baseball Operations: Erin Cox boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bosGood call. I don't see Bill James cowtowing to DDo or anybody to doctor the results the way DDo wants it nor would Tom Tippett or anybody else for that matter in the dept. I think they honestly figured they were better off just spending the money than the young talent. It's not a surprising conclusion especially when you factor in how good Price is and that the Sox don't have to surrender the 12th pick of the draft either. It's kind of a no-brainer.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 6, 2015 18:43:47 GMT -5
■ Director of major league operations Zack Scott and the Sox’ analytics team led a study comparing the cost of trading for an ace (which required affixing a dollar figure to prospects and making performance projections) to signing one, delivering a memo to Dombrowski and Hazen toward the end of the World Series that Dombrowski then presented to the owners a couple of days later. This is the exact opportunity cost analysis that I and others applied to the Kimbrel trade. So the front office and ownership apparently agree that this sort of analysis is worthwhile. Of course, that raises the question of whether this analysis was done for the Kimbrel trade, whether their internal analysis agreed with the public consensus, and if so, how they got comfortable with the trade regardless. It seems as tho they look at things as a package as well as individually. They seem to identify certain players and value them highly and don't value others. I like the conviction. Some who just have to analyze and not make decisions like to play the value game of ODay at his cost is a better option than Kimbrel at his without having to worry about how that truly plays out on the field. I'm sure they have different valuations than the ones used here as well.
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Post by deepjohn on Dec 6, 2015 19:03:24 GMT -5
Ah, the much sought-after internal valuation method is sighted, fleetingly, like a rare bird. The people involved seem to be these: Senior Advisor, Baseball Operations: Bill James Director, Major League Operations: Zack Scott Senior Baseball Analyst: Tom Tippett Assistant Director, Major League Operations: Mike Murov Coordinator, Baseball Operations: Mike Regan Baseball Operations Analysts: Gregory Rybarczyk and Joe McDonald Coordinator, Baseball Systems Development: Shawn O'Rourke Executive Assistant, Baseball Operations: Erin Cox boston.redsox.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=bosGood call. I don't see Bill James cowtowing to DDo or anybody to doctor the results the way DDo wants it nor would Tom Tippett or anybody else for that matter in the dept. I think they honestly figured they were better off just spending the money than the young talent. It's not a surprising conclusion especially when you factor in how good Price is and that the Sox don't have to surrender the 12th pick of the draft either. It's kind of a no-brainer. Yes, salary-per-wins now seems to be valued at pretty close to public consensus numbers that measure talent-per-wins-later. see O'Day for 4/$31m. Trades for prospects, however, such as Kimbrel's, are far above the public consensus numbers. See the thread on Kimbrel. It's as if there's a high, and potentially increasing "rate of interest" that deflates the value of salaries now. This may be the likelihood that the luxury cap increases. Or that profitable teams will breach the salary cap to take advantage of the value in "spending the money" if they can, rather than trading talent. But still looking forward to learning more in coming trade transactions (Chapman?).
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 6, 2015 21:29:23 GMT -5
Right. Let's ask Wally the Green Monster next. You seem pretty unhappy about the signing of David Price. Why? What should they have done instead? My last few posts in this thread, including the one you quoted, have nothing to do with whether or not it's a good signing. On top of that my posts before that already answered the question you pose. I'm sorry it bothers you that I'm not waving my pom poms over this move or David Price's personality.
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