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Red Sox agree to trade for Joel Hanrahan
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 24, 2012 9:22:36 GMT -5
If the round table decision makers get Hanrahan I think by the end of 2013 it will prove to be the best move they made in the off season. And I would love to see Garrett Jones come as part of the deal as well.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 24, 2012 9:24:32 GMT -5
If the round table decision makers get Hanrahan I think by the end of 2013 it will prove to be the best move they made in the off season. And I would love to see Garrett Jones come as part of the deal as well. Not sure why the Bucs would want to move Jones as he had a nice season last year, but he would fill our needs nicely.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 24, 2012 11:12:47 GMT -5
If the round table decision makers get Hanrahan I think by the end of 2013 it will prove to be the best move they made in the off season. And I would love to see Garrett Jones come as part of the deal as well. Not sure why the Bucs would want to move Jones as he had a nice season last year, but he would fill our needs nicely. I can't see Jones coming back unless Iglesias is in the deal. Pittsburgh could use a SS. otherwise I think we are looking at insignificant pieces.
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Post by brentl on Dec 24, 2012 11:18:44 GMT -5
If the round table decision makers get Hanrahan I think by the end of 2013 it will prove to be the best move they made in the off season. And I would love to see Garrett Jones come as part of the deal as well. Agreed as of right now I feel like this will be the best move of our offseason. Looks like we arnt giving up much for a guy who could net us a great prospect or player at the trade deadline or a 1st rd pick in the offseason.
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Post by jmei on Dec 24, 2012 12:14:45 GMT -5
Re: Melancon, there's apparently some question about whether he can hack it on a big stage like Boston and New York. If you selectively look at his numbers, there could be something to it - failed in NY, excelled in Houston, stunk in April, excelled the second he got to Pawtucket, was ok when he came back up then started to stink again, then excelled in September after the Sox had punted on the season. Of course, I'm the first to admit that it's all highly circumstantial and SSS evidence, but the Sox may think they're selling high on Melancon here, and let's face it, in a bullpen that features Hanrahan, Uehara, Bailey, and Tazawa, do they really need Melancon? This trade was going to include a RH reliever - is it that big of a deal if it's Melancon instead of Mortensen?Yes, yes it is. Melancon is under team control for four more years and is cost- and risk-controlled over those years (if he's good, he'll be cheap; if he's bad, you can non-tender him). He has great command of a sinking fastball that gets both swings-and-misses and ground balls. His 3.30 xFIP over the last three years is excellent and is better than Andrew Bailey (3.79) and Daniel Bard (3.43 as reliever) and is basically identical to Hanrahan (3.25) over that stretch. He has shown much better stuff and results (both minor league and major league) than Mortensen, and comparing the two (which would be based almost entirely on 2012 ERA, peripherals and track record be damned) is myopic. As for the "Melancon can't pitch under pressure" narrative, I think it's a load of bull. His 16 innings for the Yankees in 2009 were admittedly terrible, but it was also his first taste of major league hitting. Despite a terrible April, he was very good the rest of the season for the 2012 Red Sox, which includes stretches in June/July where they were on the periphery of the playoff hunt. It's incredibly SSS and I don't believe it for a second. Of course, the Red Sox might have insider information on his psychological makeup and all, but I generally don't think a player who has made it to the major league level and thus pitched under many pressure situations from high school on will suddenly fall apart because he's pitching in Boston or New York as opposed to Houston. If Cherington buys into that narrative and sells low on a pitcher who, one year ago, he thought highly enough of to trade a potential All-Star SS for, and to acquire a comparable reliever who has one expensive year of team control left, then it's a boneheaded, reactionary move. Based on the Napoli and Victorino signings, I thought the FO was smart enough not to place too much emphasis on one year's worth of surface numbers and instead look to overall career talent, but if they trade Melancon for Hanrahan, my faith was apparently misplaced.
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Post by pbgallag on Dec 24, 2012 12:41:11 GMT -5
Agreed as of right now I feel like this will be the best move of our offseason. Looks like we arnt giving up much for a guy who could net us a great prospect or player at the trade deadline or a 1st rd pick in the offseason. There is a 0.00% chance that Hanrahan would be given a qualifying offer after the season.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 24, 2012 13:06:30 GMT -5
Agreed as of right now I feel like this will be the best move of our offseason. Looks like we arnt giving up much for a guy who could net us a great prospect or player at the trade deadline or a 1st rd pick in the offseason. There is a 0.00% chance that Hanrahan would be given a qualifying offer after the season. If there was less than a zero chance, I'd go with that. If the Sox weren't going to spend $12.5 million/year to re-sign Papelbon, they sure wouldn't give Hanrahan a qualifying offer of $13 plus million for a season. One other thing - I agree with Jmei re: Melancon. I can't help but feel there's more to him than what we saw last season. He was very good for Houston and he has good stuff and a K/BB ratio that's much better than Hanrahan. I don't have a clue what happened with him last April, but something was off - my guess it was more a mechanical thing than a mental thing, but it sounds like he'll be gone in this deal, but I hope not. I think he has a decent future ahead of him.
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Post by ctscott on Dec 24, 2012 14:56:03 GMT -5
I have to agree about the likelihood (or lack thereof) of the Sox making a QO for Hanrahan. After watching the market for Soriano sort out this year, who is a better pitcher than Hanrahan, there's no way the Sox would consider taking that risk unless he's COMPLETELY lights out and would be welcome to come back for another 1 year deal.
I do think that the Sox might move him mid-season, though, and hopefully for a king's ransom.
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Post by joshv02 on Dec 26, 2012 10:35:53 GMT -5
If there was less than a zero chance, I'd go with that. If the Sox weren't going to spend $12.5 million/year to re-sign Papelbon, they sure wouldn't give Hanrahan a qualifying offer of $13 plus million for a season. Right - there is no chance they will offer Hanrahan a QO. But they did offer Papelbon arb, and that indicates (as does an understanding of how they think) that they would have been happy going year-to-year at $12-13mm. It was length of contract, not year-to-year $ that was the Papelbon issue for this front office.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 26, 2012 12:23:38 GMT -5
Gammons just tweeted that the deal was done
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Post by mjammz on Dec 26, 2012 12:23:54 GMT -5
Peter Gammons @pgammo They were right. The Hanrahan deal was finished after Christmas, as in done today, Boxing Day
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Post by mjammz on Dec 26, 2012 12:44:53 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Source: Melancon is among players going from #RedSox to #Pirates for Hanrahan, as previously reported. Sands, Pimentel also in, per reports
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Post by mjammz on Dec 26, 2012 12:48:08 GMT -5
Full trade - Jerry Sands, Stolmy Pimental, Mark Melancon and Ivan Dejesus for Joel Hanrahan and INF Brock Holt
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 26, 2012 12:50:49 GMT -5
If there was less than a zero chance, I'd go with that. If the Sox weren't going to spend $12.5 million/year to re-sign Papelbon, they sure wouldn't give Hanrahan a qualifying offer of $13 plus million for a season. Right - there is no chance they will offer Hanrahan a QO. But they did offer Papelbon arb, and that indicates (as does an understanding of how they think) that they would have been happy going year-to-year at $12-13mm. It was length of contract, not year-to-year $ that was the Papelbon issue for this front office. You are correct. The Sox didn't want to give Paps years. Hanrahan has been good, but he's not as good as Paps was, so I doubt they'd risk the annual value.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 26, 2012 12:52:54 GMT -5
Confused by Holt. Looks like he can hit and be a 2b for some team, but not here with Pedroia around. So now only the guys the Sox really wanted from LA are left: De La Rosa and Webster.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 26, 2012 13:03:34 GMT -5
Can play SS but best suited to 2B - probably ticketed for Pawtucket.
Jody Reed-esque?
Holy cow - Jody Reed had 69 walks and 23 Ks his final year in Pawtucket. Holt walks the walk but also strikes out some.
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Post by amfox1 on Dec 26, 2012 13:05:43 GMT -5
Full trade - Jerry Sands, Stolmy Pimental, Mark Melancon and Ivan Dejesus for Joel Hanrahan and INF Brock Holt Holt and DeJesus is a wash, except Holt has options remaining (and DeJesus is no longer on the 40 man). The rest of the trade has been discussed- Pirates get cheap depth, we take the short-term upgrade and clear out a bunch of roster issues. I think Melancon is a loss but the trade is a net positive.
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Post by hammerhead on Dec 26, 2012 13:06:26 GMT -5
I disagree that he is best suited for Pawtucket. Looking over his minor league numbers and he appears to get on base much better that Ciriaco and he hits LH wihich adds some balance to the team. I see him being the utility guy if he has a decent spring.
He's still young enough to have some upside
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Post by jmei on Dec 26, 2012 13:07:01 GMT -5
I'm disgusted that the front office traded Mark Melancon (and spare pieces) for a comparable one-(expensive)-year-rental relief pitcher. This trade is a coup for Pittsburgh.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 26, 2012 13:08:54 GMT -5
From MLB.com's top 20 prospects per team.
Holt-#18 Pirates Coming out of Rice, Holt hit the ground running -- or hitting, to be more precise. His first full season, in 2010, was cut short by a knee injury in June. He moved to Double-A in 2011 and went back to Altoona in 2012, showing improvement in his return engagement. Holt can hit for average and get on base. He’s played on both sides of second base but has been playing shortstop exclusively in 2012. He’s a solid defender with good range and a strong arm. The knee injury a distant memory, Holt now looks like a solid middle-infield prospect, who will get a chance to help out in Pittsburgh down the stretch, after a September callup.
He's hit for average with no power at every level. Seems like a decent replacement for Aviles/DeJesus
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Post by hammerhead on Dec 26, 2012 13:09:36 GMT -5
I think the biggest "sting" in this trade (if there even is one) is losing Sands without giving him some kind of look. I think he could go to Pittsburgh and be an impact bat in the right situation.
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Post by jmei on Dec 26, 2012 13:15:08 GMT -5
No, the biggest "sting" is losing a young, talented relief pitcher who has shown better peripherals than Daniel Bard (as a reliever) and Andrew Bailey and is under team control for four years. I am frankly shocked that so many posters here have Melancon written off as a spare part when he has shown the ability to miss bats, limit walks, and get ground balls. I'm pretty confident that he will outperform Hanrahan in 2013 at a fraction of the price.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 26, 2012 13:17:07 GMT -5
Nice haul for the Pirates. Adding a net +3 cost-controlled players could work out very well for them.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 26, 2012 13:22:33 GMT -5
Not sure what the **** Ben was thinking. This guy seems to have a plan at one point, but then simply loses his mind at other points.
For the record, I think Hanrahan is a good player and WILL be our closer this year. I also think Melancon is never going to succeed in a market with as much pressure as Boston.
However, this makes no ****ing sense.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 26, 2012 13:29:30 GMT -5
No, the biggest "sting" is losing a young, talented relief pitcher who has shown better peripherals than Daniel Bard (as a reliever) and Andrew Bailey and is under team control for four years. I am frankly shocked that so many posters here have Melancon written off as a spare part when he has shown the ability to miss bats, limit walks, and get ground balls. I'm pretty confident that he will outperform Hanrahan in 2013 at a fraction of the price. You're not the only one who's not too happy about losing Melancon. He's a better pitcher than he showed last year and like you said, we're dealing 4 years of him for an expensive rental in Hanrahan who will be pitching the 9th inning with some massive control problems. I figured Melancon was in the deal, but my hope was it would be for somebody they can really use as opposed to a good hitting 2b that's really better off as trade bait. Unless Pedroia goes down for an extended stretch, I don't see Holt doing much for the Sox. I was hoping that somehow Ben would get a useful pitching prospect or a LH hitting OF if they were going to part with Melancon.
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