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6/24-6/26 Red Sox @ Rangers Series Thread
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Jun 26, 2016 19:04:30 GMT -5
Maybe we look at the Nomar situation different ? I seem to remember Nomar not being a cancer but a productive moody player who in stark contrast to Derek at the time and game was troubling to say the least by ownership ....But what I do remember is that the move as earth shattering at the time and shook a team that as talented into a place that ultimate was a World Series winning decision....There is no moody player I see but I see decline in a few past stars who could fetch a season changing talent . Players from the 2004 team, namely Schilling have come out and publicly said he was a clubhouse cancer. He also trashed Manny after he left so I'll pass on Schill's opinion about pretty much anything
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 26, 2016 19:10:20 GMT -5
Did you thank them for their record before May 26th or the 3 Championships since they took over? Of course not, you'd have to actually balance everything. Of course nobody heard boo from you when they were winning. And if the Sox do go on some sort of winning streak, you'll be gone, unless you complain about the quality of their victories or something lame like that. But seriously, all you do is complain. You point out a bunch of bad moves and then conveniently forget that the guy who made those moves was in essence replaced. Now you're complaining because Dombrowski didn't tear down the minor league system (yet) so that the team had absolutely no holes. When spring training started the team looked solid. The questionable area was the #2 spot in the rotation. Price got off to a lousy start when his mechanics were out of whack, but even with his most recent start, has pretty much resembled the pitcher he's always been and he didn't cost them a draft pick, which they used to get Jason Groome. They wound up getting a #2 in Steven Wright, who's actually pitched like an ace this season, even with his mediocre start yesterday. You saw what Shelby Miller cost. You saw what Kimbrel cost and you saw what Giles cost the Astros. So what are you complaining about? That Dombrowski didn't nuke the system for that #2 starter? Don't worry. You might get your wish soon enough. Come up for air my friend. Dombrowski has done nothing but spend spend spend like his predecessor. Where has Price CYoung and Kimbrell gotten you? Your right I'll give DD a chance even though he has spent like a buffoon. 31 million for Price could have landed you both a #1 and #2 Starting pitcher much like the SFGiants did. Far as Wright, great Story. At the end of Day he is nothing but a #5 SP in any rotation due to the pitch he throws. Don't use the AL East as an excuse not to sign starting pitchers. Yes DD should have tore down the Minor Leagues at the Front Office Player Development level. Baird destroyed KC in his tenure there with 3 100 plus losses in 6 years. Crockett a pitcher no less cannot develop any Pitching at any level. Go back and look at the Drafts under the latter two and make your own judgement. Yes I will b!tch. 200 million dollar payroll and u finish dead last in 14 15. Your probably going to finish close to that again this season because of the past Front Office group and no Starting Pitching. Now DD has cash strapped himself with Price, by retaining Bucholz , already dealt a chip for Reliever (see Reddick) and Retaining Farrell. Unacceptable! There are some decent pitching numbers in AAA and those Pitchers do not get a chance, Why? Light, Shephard, Martin, Cuevas, Wilkerson, Owens. I have to watch "walk en home" Barnes, the Hit man Tommy Layne, Recycled Ross, give Kelly another chance and 2 very good Japanese arms getting overworked. Wait, we got a SF pitcher the Giants didn't want... And you wonder why Im negative. Are you really telling me that the Sox should have signed The Shark? Really? They should have given up the #12 pick of the draft (Groome) to sign a guy coming off the crap year he had last year? And he's pitching well in SF, where it's a lot easier to pitch. I'm glad the Sox didn't spend money on him. They chose Price over Cueto. Wished they had room for both in the budget, but long-term I'd take Price over Cueto. I doubt Cueto would be doing as well if he was at Fenway rather than SF, but I'd still take him - along side Price, not instead of, and that was never a realistic option. And for all your complaining, are you seriously telling me you'd have selected Cueto and Shark as of November 2015 - don't tell me the results today - tell me what you would have done given that Cueto was shaky with KC and Shark was crappy with the ChiSox, and Price was coming off a 9-1 stretch with Toronto and had a better track record than both. Talk about Monday morning quarterbacking. Didn't see you touting those two starters last November. Retaining Buchholz coming off a 3.26 ERA made sense in November. Stop telling me the results today. It made sense then. Didn't hear you complaining about it then. Again more Monday morning QBing. As far as the AAA guys you mentioned, you've gotta be kidding me. "Walk em home Barnes"? What the hell do you think Owens and Light are known for? Walk-a-thons! I got the pleasure of seeing Cuevas in person - he ruined the game I went to giving up the winning run in the 8th inning. None of those guys are bargains. And yes I wonder why you are negative. The Sox have won thrice in 15 years. Want to be negative? Be a Pirates or an Indians fan or a Cubs fan. They have reason to complain. You don't really. Those fans would look at you like an entitled whiney moron. Around these parts, we call those fans Yankee fans.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 26, 2016 19:16:38 GMT -5
It's hard watching a team every last one of us thought would make a run … It's not hard. It's called being a grown up. lol at the Sunshine and rainbows/Everything is awesome crowd. All of their childhoods were filled with misery of the Sox failures and now the team can do no wrong now that they have won Championships.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 26, 2016 19:25:37 GMT -5
It's not hard. It's called being a grown up. lol at the Sunshine and rainbows/Everything is awesome crowd. All of their childhoods were filled with misery of the Sox failures and now the team can do no wrong now that they have won Championships. Or, I dunno, maybe they realize it's just baseball.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 26, 2016 19:37:39 GMT -5
Players from the 2004 team, namely Schilling have come out and publicly said he was a clubhouse cancer. He also trashed Manny after he left so I'll pass on Schill's opinion about pretty much anything I can see by your avatar that you were a Manny fan. I loved watching him hit, but beyond that - while I disagree on most of Schill's opinions, I doubt he was hardly alone on his opinion re: Manny. Manny played when he wanted to, and a lot of times, he didn't want to. Orlando Cabrera was very popular with his Red Sox teammates because he wouldn't put up with Manny's crap. Francona didn't think very highly of him, especially after what he did to Jack Rogers. A lot of his teammates were frustrated with him and it got worse after his baby sitter Kevin Millar left. By 2008 he was really bad and the Sox were forced to get rid of him.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 26, 2016 19:39:23 GMT -5
It's not hard. It's called being a grown up. lol at the Sunshine and rainbows/Everything is awesome crowd. All of their childhoods were filled with misery of the Sox failures and now the team can do no wrong now that they have won Championships. Not really. I have no problem saying when they play like crap just like I have no problem complimenting them when they play well. I don't see any need to be miserable. Baseball is entertainment. If you find it miserable, get a different hobby.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 26, 2016 19:43:34 GMT -5
lol at the Sunshine and rainbows/Everything is awesome crowd. All of their childhoods were filled with misery of the Sox failures and now the team can do no wrong now that they have won Championships. Or, I dunno, maybe they realize it's just baseball. I dunno, I assume everyone realizes that. I also assume that a lot gets lost in text, especially reactions. I honestly don't see the problem with any of the reactions to another blown start from Clay. People want to see their teams do well and react to when the same player chokes it up over and over again, they get mad. Personally i like to throw a lot of sarcasm out there in my bashings of Clay because i like to see some of you guys squirm, its funny to me.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 26, 2016 19:57:35 GMT -5
It's not hard. It's called being a grown up. This is a Red Sox prospects based board, not an advanced quantum mechanics one. Overreactions should be expected, being grown up isn't all that fun. If I can't come here and hype Keith Couch or ignore SSS and proclaim The Sandy as our next longterm catcher then damn it what is the internet good for?
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 26, 2016 21:51:40 GMT -5
Maybe we look at the Nomar situation different ? I seem to remember Nomar not being a cancer but a productive moody player who in stark contrast to Derek at the time and game was troubling to say the least by ownership ....But what I do remember is that the move as earth shattering at the time and shook a team that as talented into a place that ultimate was a World Series winning decision....There is no moody player I see but I see decline in a few past stars who could fetch a season changing talent . Players from the 2004 team, namely Schilling have come out and publicly said he was a clubhouse cancer. Maybe Schilling thought "Garciaparra" was a Muslim name. Seriously though, I just can't take anything Curt Schilling says seriously. I love the fact that he bloody-socked us to a WS win and I respect his career as HOF worthy. That's about where the good ends with him, as far I'm concerned. One of the books that came out post-'04 disclosed that it was Schilling who commented anonymously to a writer that Nomar was the "biggest disappointment of my professional career" or something like that. Schilling - who brands himself as Mr. Outspoken who just tells it like it is without fear of what others may think - tried to hide behind an anonymous quote ripping a teammate. Real big man. When the next HOF vote approaches, I'll once again advocate on this board for Schilling to make a jump in his voting percentage, so that he can be set up for election in a couple of years. But as a person, the guy's a bigoted blowhard.
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Post by Coreno on Jun 26, 2016 22:58:47 GMT -5
Yep. That just about sums up Schill.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 27, 2016 7:36:10 GMT -5
Players from the 2004 team, namely Schilling have come out and publicly said he was a clubhouse cancer. He also trashed Manny after he left so I'll pass on Schill's opinion about pretty much anything You can go on ahead and continue to believe it was a complete coincidence the team went on a massive winning streak immediately after he left and then won the world series. Schilling also didn't completely trash Manny, he's said a lot of positive stuff about him, namely how much work he put into hitting.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 27, 2016 10:29:54 GMT -5
What move? Exercising his option? Thinking that was a bad idea is just flat-out mindless. Ian Kennedy got 5/70. Would you prefer they had signed him instead of exercising Buchholz's option? This is starting to look like a standard "contribution" from you. Maybe you'd be better suited for Boston.com? As I stated before and the facts are undisputed. Clay Bucholz 9 years in Boston. Minus his Rookie season only 3 years can be called productive. Two of those productive years were cut short by Injury resulting in missing half the season. 6 average to below average seasons with an ERA pushing 5 and more injury history. Add his velocity and K numbers declining the last 2 years. Money could have been spent on another arm for the 16 season. Kazmir, Fister and whomever else for equal or same money were out there... On a one-year deal? And you're talking about guys who've had plenty of Buchholz-level career struggles themselves. Sheesh...Kazmir is injury-prone, rarely goes deep in games, and was out of MLB for a couple of years. You talk like finding a replacement for one year at $13M is a breeze. For one, Kazmir's not outperforming Buchholz by much. And he's on a 3/$48M contract. I'm not sure what school you went to that told you $13M=$48M, but they lied. And please don't get into a "I meant for this year" backtrack. Because Kazmir's contract is three years long. That's part of why they picked up Buchholz's option: they reserve the right to let him go to FA at the end of the year. Fister? He's pitched pretty well, by ERA. His FIP/xFIP aren't good, though, but he's probably going to turn out to be a steal. Good for the Astros. But I'm pretty sure they don't have a crystal ball or Marty McFly coming back from the future to tell them exactly which moves to make, because that Appell pick doesn't look too good. They signed Buchholz because he had legitimate upside, a reasonable salary (relatively cheap, actually), and no long-term obligation. How a move turns out doesn't affect the *initial* wisdom of the move. Just about *everything* said Panda was a bad move: age, weight, average offensive performance, length of contract, AAV...and predictably, it turned out that way. But even if he'd been great, it still would've been a dumb signing. Just because I hit on 17 when the dealer's showing a 6, and I get a 4, doesn't make that a smart move. And just because I split aces against a five and end up losing one or both hands doesn't mean that was a dumb move. Teams are informed gamblers when it comes to players...they play the odds, and bet accordingly. So, if you want to talk "undisputed facts," why don't you list all of the free agent pitchers who signed one-year deals this past offseason, the cost of those deals, and give, say, their age and last three years of MLB performance (IP, ERA, FIP/xFIP, K rate, WAR, etc.) Then, based on actual facts, provide an intelligent, cogent rationale for why the risk involved in dropping Buchholz and signing one of those pitchers was warranted. Keep in mind that players don't always sign with you if you want them to (although money can always solve that, if you use enough).
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Post by telson13 on Jun 27, 2016 10:43:21 GMT -5
Or, I dunno, maybe they realize it's just baseball. I dunno, I assume everyone realizes that. I also assume that a lot gets lost in text, especially reactions. I honestly don't see the problem with any of the reactions to another blown start from Clay. People want to see their teams do well and react to when the same player chokes it up over and over again, they get mad. Personally i like to throw a lot of sarcasm out there in my bashings of Clay because i like to see some of you guys squirm, its funny to me. So what you're saying is...you like to troll.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 27, 2016 10:43:55 GMT -5
At times buddy? how about the whole year? Maybe you have that memory loss going and i get that. You've been defending him ALL year. Don't say "he's been bad at times this year" because you were defending him even then. Again I understand bad luck and i'd be willing to dismiss it, but he doesn't get leeway for a few decent starts. And honestly this board does look dumb, because their are ppl on here like you. Absolutely delusional on another planet ppl, like you. Lucky homer by Prince there huh? soft hit? Keep living on fantasy island lol Yeah, great points. I need to start calling to replace every single player (not just Buchholz) on the team when they have a bad game or bad week to make this board more intelligent. You realize that you were arguing with arguably the two people on this board with the lowest value per post, and at the same time, right?
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 27, 2016 12:32:07 GMT -5
New targets in my sights are always welcome. Come one come all.
edit: and yes i enjoy trolling/stuffing you nerds in lockers. I have so many ppl coming in here laughing at some of you with Buchholz defense and the delusional ppl. Should get a cut for all the traffic im bringing here.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 27, 2016 12:42:57 GMT -5
Me, every time I come into a Series Thread
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 27, 2016 12:46:42 GMT -5
Same.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 27, 2016 12:47:46 GMT -5
Now that's a fire gif.
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Post by jmei on Jun 27, 2016 14:16:13 GMT -5
New targets in my sights are always welcome. Come one come all. edit: and yes i enjoy trolling/stuffing you nerds in lockers. I have so many ppl coming in here laughing at some of you with Buchholz defense and the delusional ppl. Should get a cut for all the traffic im bringing here. You've been warned about this multiple times, and it is explicitly against the ground rules. Consider this a final warning-- cut out the trolling and the personal stuff, or you'll be banned.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 27, 2016 14:24:30 GMT -5
Roger that, no fun zone.
edit: Anyone know of a Sox board that isn't PG rated, where you can have a laugh and everyone isnt so serious and maybe a bit younger?
edit 2:^thats not a troll or a personal dig i'm generally curious
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Post by dnfl333 on Jun 27, 2016 18:16:06 GMT -5
As I stated before and the facts are undisputed. Clay Bucholz 9 years in Boston. Minus his Rookie season only 3 years can be called productive. Two of those productive years were cut short by Injury resulting in missing half the season. 6 average to below average seasons with an ERA pushing 5 and more injury history. Add his velocity and K numbers declining the last 2 years. Money could have been spent on another arm for the 16 season. Kazmir, Fister and whomever else for equal or same money were out there... On a one-year deal? And you're talking about guys who've had plenty of Buchholz-level career struggles themselves. Sheesh...Kazmir is injury-prone, rarely goes deep in games, and was out of MLB for a couple of years. You talk like finding a replacement for one year at $13M is a breeze. For one, Kazmir's not outperforming Buchholz by much. And he's on a 3/$48M contract. I'm not sure what school you went to that told you $13M=$48M, but they lied. And please don't get into a "I meant for this year" backtrack. Because Kazmir's contract is three years long. That's part of why they picked up Buchholz's option: they reserve the right to let him go to FA at the end of the year. Fister? He's pitched pretty well, by ERA. His FIP/xFIP aren't good, though, but he's probably going to turn out to be a steal. Good for the Astros. But I'm pretty sure they don't have a crystal ball or Marty McFly coming back from the future to tell them exactly which moves to make, because that Appell pick doesn't look too good. They signed Buchholz because he had legitimate upside, a reasonable salary (relatively cheap, actually), and no long-term obligation. How a move turns out doesn't affect the *initial* wisdom of the move. Just about *everything* said Panda was a bad move: age, weight, average offensive performance, length of contract, AAV...and predictably, it turned out that way. But even if he'd been great, it still would've been a dumb signing. Just because I hit on 17 when the dealer's showing a 6, and I get a 4, doesn't make that a smart move. And just because I split aces against a five and end up losing one or both hands doesn't mean that was a dumb move. Teams are informed gamblers when it comes to players...they play the odds, and bet accordingly. So, if you want to talk "undisputed facts," why don't you list all of the free agent pitchers who signed one-year deals this past offseason, the cost of those deals, and give, say, their age and last three years of MLB performance (IP, ERA, FIP/xFIP, K rate, WAR, etc.) Then, based on actual facts, provide an intelligent, cogent rationale for why the risk involved in dropping Buchholz and signing one of those pitchers was warranted. Keep in mind that players don't always sign with you if you want them to (although money can always solve that, if you use enough). You can Sugar coat it all you want. Bucholz is a liability. I don't care if the one year deal was for 300 bucks. Time to cut bait. Better pitchers were on the market.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Jun 27, 2016 18:30:09 GMT -5
He also trashed Manny after he left so I'll pass on Schill's opinion about pretty much anything You can go on ahead and continue to believe it was a complete coincidence the team went on a massive winning streak immediately after he left and then won the world series. Schilling also didn't completely trash Manny, he's said a lot of positive stuff about him, namely how much work he put into hitting. That's actually not true. The RS lost five of their next nine games after the Nomar trade. I think there's a certain amount of mythology around the idea that the RS dumped Nomar and everything clicked into place right away.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2016 18:39:04 GMT -5
Roger that, no fun zone. edit: Anyone know of a Sox board that isn't PG rated, where you can have a laugh and everyone isnt so serious and maybe a bit younger? edit 2:^thats not a troll or a personal dig i'm generally curious overthemonster
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 27, 2016 18:40:15 GMT -5
New targets in my sights are always welcome. Come one come all. edit: and yes i enjoy trolling/stuffing you nerds in lockers. I have so many ppl coming in here laughing at some of you with Buchholz defense and the delusional ppl. Should get a cut for all the traffic im bringing here. Seek help.
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Post by bosox89 on Jun 27, 2016 18:44:39 GMT -5
New targets in my sights are always welcome. Come one come all. edit: and yes i enjoy trolling/stuffing you nerds in lockers. I have so many ppl coming in here laughing at some of you with Buchholz defense and the delusional ppl. Should get a cut for all the traffic im bringing here. Seek help. Careful or you'll be banned for being mean. I won't take the bait
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