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Post by taftreign on Jul 14, 2016 18:11:53 GMT -5
Well as long as Boston wins the World Series as a result I can live with this deal!
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2016 18:12:00 GMT -5
Yeah I know, I was just poking fun at the knuckleball haters.
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Post by smairs on Jul 14, 2016 18:12:03 GMT -5
Wow...DD just signed Jason Groom and not for the $4M that everyone expected....but for $3.75M. DD goes out and gets a closer, and Aaron Hill without touching any of our top prospects....then trades,a 18 yr old single A prospect straight up for an All Star starting pitching...
Talk about being short sighted....DD has done very well this month.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 14, 2016 18:12:07 GMT -5
Don't give up yet guys, Pomeranz could always fail his physical!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 14, 2016 18:12:40 GMT -5
I've decided not to trade my avatar for a Pomeranz avatar.
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Post by telluricrook on Jul 14, 2016 18:12:58 GMT -5
Now are we supposed to root for success or failure for Anderson from here on out?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 14, 2016 18:13:43 GMT -5
Well as long as Boston wins the World Series as a result I can live with this deal! It would be just like trading Hanley in 2006. Maybe we can sign Espinoza for an insane amount of money when he's a fraction of his former self at age 31.
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Post by tizzle on Jul 14, 2016 18:14:50 GMT -5
Really no words for how much I hate this trade. I have doubts about who good he's even going to be this year with the innings wall coming.
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Post by telluricrook on Jul 14, 2016 18:15:14 GMT -5
Don't give up yet guys, Pomeranz could always fail his physical! Now where is shane stant when you need him? Kidding... kind of ..
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Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 14, 2016 18:15:21 GMT -5
Arrieta throws 3 mph harder, which even for a RHP is disproportionally higher. Arrieta has a 4 pitch mix, Pomeranz 3 with a show me change. Not to mention that he's never shown the BB% to come close to what Arrieta has been able to do in terms of total value. He'd have to strike out 12 per 9 to come to Arrieta's FIP/FIPx over the past few seasons. To be fair, Pomeranz doesn't have to pitch as well as Arrieta to justify this deal, he only needs to pitch as well as, say, 2008-2010 Jon Lester. And if you compare Lester and Pomeranz's age 25-27 seasons, they actually compare decently well on a rate basis. Of course, the big difference is that Lester had a frame and a track record commensurate with a guy you'd expect 200 inning seasons out of. Pomeranz doesn't, and he's a little more dependent on suppressing hits on balls in play and put up his numbers in a friendlier league/park. So, uh, even the best-case scenario isn't really all that rosy. Between Pomeranz 48 GB% and 28% K rate, I'd say he can continue his run of success in the AL East. Only thing that slightly worries me is the workload, as he's going into uncharted territory in that regard. Nonetheless, if you have a chance to snag a cost controlled elite arm in a 1 for 1 deal you do it. We desperately needed an arm, and Pomeranz gives us one we can rely on in the playoffs, not a filler aka a 'less worse Sean O'Sullivan' rental type.
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Post by bjb406 on Jul 14, 2016 18:15:22 GMT -5
Anderson Espinoza is a (maybe) 6 foot righthander. Name me one other righty with his stature, besides Pedro Martinez, who has even been a consistent #2 starter over the past 25 years. Now consistent Drew Pomeranz is not. But considering handedness and stature, i'm not sure that Espinoza projects as a better player. You are an idiot if you think height has anything to do with it. Thats the same kind of logic that had us drafting Trey Ball. "he's so tall he's going to add like 5 mph to his fastball easy." Espinoza already throws super fast with control and an elite breaking ball. Even if your a moron and think you can predict how much a guys stuff will improve based on the distance his head is from the ground, its an entirely moot point because his stuff is already elite. And to answer your challenge, I'm sure there are many, but the first that comes to mind is Johan Santana. EDIT: Just occurred to me you said righty. Totally mystified how that might be relevant, but I'll get back to you. I don't irrationally obsess about people's height, so I'll have to look some stuff up EDIT2: Upon a cursory glance through names, Cueto is listed in different places as either 5'10" or 5'11". Also 5'11" are former Cy Young wining righthanders Bartolo Colon and Tim Lincecum
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Post by cologneredsox on Jul 14, 2016 18:16:50 GMT -5
Would we have made this trade if not for it being Papis last year?
I was really dreaming on Espi...
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Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 14, 2016 18:17:35 GMT -5
Now are we supposed to root for success or failure for Anderson from here on out? Success. Pads vs. Sox World Series 2018!
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Post by tizzle on Jul 14, 2016 18:18:24 GMT -5
Great deal for the Sox. There is absolutely no guarantee that Espinosa will ever achieve the prowess already present in Pomeranz...an all- star pitcher. C'mon guys. By this logic literally any prospect-for-established-big leaguer is a good trade to you. Yeah, one of my big pet peeves in modern discussions is how often people think throwing out the words "no guarantee" actually equals logic. I mean, there's no guarantee Pomeranz won't blow his arm out in first game here, and there's no guarantee Espinoza won't be a better version of Pedro, so.... it must be the worst trade in history.
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2016 18:18:29 GMT -5
Now are we supposed to root for success or failure for Anderson from here on out? I have never rooted for a player to fail. I would urge you to take the same tact.
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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jul 14, 2016 18:18:45 GMT -5
**** it, why not trade moncada for zobrist to play left and beni for Casey Jansen or some other middle reliever while we're at it, cause major leaguers are always better than prospects right? I can't believe some of you people. Would you rather have the chance at a million dollars or $100 right now? That's basically the argument you're making
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Post by gator39 on Jul 14, 2016 18:19:52 GMT -5
I don't like this trade at all. Espinoza is too much to give up for a guy with pomeranz track record. With that being said some people on here are being way too hard on this trade. First off, while I don't trust Pomeranz leaving Petco & coming to the NL he is not a scrub. Also, people saying Espinoza is a guaranteed future ace when he is an 18 year old in low A are crazy. Nobody is a guarantee in low A. & suggesting he could be in the majors by September is asinine.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 14, 2016 18:19:54 GMT -5
Great deal for the Sox. There is absolutely no guarantee that Espinosa will ever achieve the prowess already present in Pomeranz...an all- star pitcher. C'mon guys. By this logic literally any prospect-for-established-big leaguer is a good trade to you. Boo Hiss! Look Pomeranz was the 5th pick in his draft. Look at his record/stats. He is reputed to have an electric arm. No one knows what Espinosa will or may become. He is 18 for goodness sakes and at least 3-5 years away. His stats this year are not as impressive as envisioned. His FB velocity in 2016 is less than what I observed first hand a year ago. Sure he is a potential stud but what are the odds that he will be better than Pomeranz...who is already there? Great deal for the Sox!
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2016 18:20:42 GMT -5
I understand a lot of you have strong feelings about the trade. But that's no excuse for being dicks to each other. Please cut out the petty bickering (and the profanity). Thanks.
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Post by theghostofjoecronin on Jul 14, 2016 18:21:43 GMT -5
Wow...DD just signed Jason Groom and not for the $4M that everyone expected....but for $3.75M. DD goes out and gets a closer, and Aaron Hill without touching any of our top prospects....then trades,a 18 yr old single A prospect straight up for an All Star starting pitching... Talk about being short sighted....DD has done very well this month. Agreed 100%. This team just went from just missing the playoffs to potential World Series contenders over the past couple weeks. That's what I like to see.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,980
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Post by jimoh on Jul 14, 2016 18:21:46 GMT -5
We watch baseball for two things: to see our team win, and to see incredibly sublime performances. Yaz and Clemens and Boggs and Nomar gave us no rings, but unforgettably sublime performances that live on in our memories. It looked like Pedro was going to give us the supremely sublime performances of his incomparable peak with no rings, but then 2004 happened.
It's really sad to give up a player who seems to have a chance to be unbelievably good, and had a chance to give us thrills as great as any of those guys.
But we have a better chance of winning a ring this year and next.
And are we done now? We don't need a LF or 5th starter that badly, so we?
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Post by kungfuizzy on Jul 14, 2016 18:22:46 GMT -5
I don't like this trade at all. Espinoza is too much to give up for a guy with pomeranz track record. With that being said some people on here are being way too hard on this trade. First off, while I don't trust Pomeranz leaving Petco & coming to the NL he is not a scrub. Also, people saying Espinoza is a guaranteed future ace when he is an 18 year old in low A are crazy. Nobody is a guarantee in low A. & suggesting he could be in the majors by September is asinine. He's not a scrub? Pull up his track record. This guy was ticketed for the bullpen in March. He was traded for two other scrubs this year. Preller is easily executive of the year thanks to fleecing DD not once but twice. Mark my words. Those two trades are just as big of a fleece as the Bagwell for Larry Anderson deal.
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Post by jmei on Jul 14, 2016 18:23:07 GMT -5
I merged the "Fire DD" thread with this one, because that thread was effectively just a continuation of this one. When tempers calm down a bit, feel free to start another thread on Dombrowski, but for now, I'd prefer not to have the same discussion split on two threads. Thanks.
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Post by trotfan on Jul 14, 2016 18:24:25 GMT -5
Fleeced no question but don't blame this on Dave blame it on Clay and Erod if they were even league average this team would be up by 8 games right now ....Dave kept Benny ,Devers ,Moncada but we just lost a hell of a player because clay and Erod are dumpster fires ...Dave did what he had to do but it hurts bad .I don't think Dave is done though and if this is what Poms got what the hell will Hill command ? I shudder to think ...
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Post by gator39 on Jul 14, 2016 18:25:01 GMT -5
**** it, why not trade moncada for zobrist to play left and beni for Casey Jansen or some other middle reliever while we're at it, cause major leaguers are always better than prospects right? I can't believe some of you people. Would you rather have the chance at a million dollars or $100 right now? That's basically the argument you're making We already have Casey Janssen
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