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8/18-8/21 Red Sox @ Tigers Series Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 21, 2016 15:06:00 GMT -5
Is Ross broken ?
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2016 15:07:41 GMT -5
Cleveland won, Tito still delivering.
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Post by bosox81 on Aug 21, 2016 15:08:19 GMT -5
This is the right game to bring in Abad. Save Ross for when it really matters.
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Post by bosox81 on Aug 21, 2016 15:10:26 GMT -5
Cleveland won, Tito still delivering. He went with Cody Allen with a one-run lead in the 9th over Miller. I guess he's really serious about throwing the conventional closer role out the window.
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Post by philarhody on Aug 21, 2016 15:28:23 GMT -5
Henry Owens is going to be a good starting pitcher in this league. His changeup is as good as it gets. The fastball plays way up. The two breaking pitches are pretty good as well. I'd be really surprised to see Boston give up on him for nothing.
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Post by ray88h66 on Aug 21, 2016 15:45:07 GMT -5
Henry Owens is going to be a good starting pitcher in this league. His changeup is as good as it gets. The fastball plays way up. The two breaking pitches are pretty good as well. I'd be really surprised to see Boston give up on him for nothing. Hope you're right. Haven't seen many that walk this many batters become good with the velocity of Owens. Ryan and Johnson did it but they had 10 more mph on the fastball.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Aug 21, 2016 16:16:03 GMT -5
Tough start for Hank. I can actually swallow this loss over one that if Owens throws 7 innings of two run baseball then the bullpen gives up the lead in the late innings for the loss. That would make a painfull plane ride.
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Post by mgoetze on Aug 21, 2016 16:41:51 GMT -5
Abraham just tweeted "The projected line for Henry Owens: 9 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 9 BB, 21 K, 153 pitches, 90 strikes." Just another idiot writer who doesn't know how projections work and what regression to the mean is about...
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Post by pedey on Aug 21, 2016 16:55:56 GMT -5
Hank got obliterated today. No doubt. But he was at one time the best prospect in the system. So far, that hasn't worked out.
As of now, what stands between Owens becoming the MLB starter we thought he would be? Is it just control/command? Obviously that's a major defect, but if he can drastically improve his control, is he a #2 starter as projected? Does he have good enough stuff to be that good?
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,828
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Post by nomar on Aug 21, 2016 17:21:35 GMT -5
Owens is doing worse in AAA than he has before, too. Something is wrong with him this year and he hasn't figured it out.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 21, 2016 17:32:33 GMT -5
Until his control and command improve drastically, he's not going to be a major league pitcher.
Eventually I do think his control will improve enough to become a good pitcher for a couple of seasons or so, but I think he'll be the type of guy who finds it with another organization around age 28 or so.
I don't think he'll ever have the kind of command to become a reliable front of the rotation starter.
He's somebody that I hope can do well in AAA, so he can be traded. He's not going to succeed with the Red Sox.
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Post by soxfanatic on Aug 21, 2016 17:32:45 GMT -5
Abraham just tweeted "The projected line for Henry Owens: 9 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 9 BB, 21 K, 153 pitches, 90 strikes." Just another idiot writer who doesn't know how projections work and what regression to the mean is about... I'm pretty sure this was a joke.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 21, 2016 17:34:05 GMT -5
At least the good news is that despite losing out on an opportunity to go into first place, this is the kind of loss that doesn't sting at all. Verlander vs Owens at Detroit? The Sox aren't supposed to win this game anyways, and it's not like they "gave it away".
I'm just thankful that ball didn't go out last night, although I'd have been more thankful if they hadn't blown the 1st game of the series.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 21, 2016 18:08:21 GMT -5
Hank got obliterated today. No doubt. But he was at one time the best prospect in the system. So far, that hasn't worked out. As of now, what stands between Owens becoming the MLB starter we thought he would be? Is it just control/command? Obviously that's a major defect, but if he can drastically improve his control, is he a #2 starter as projected? Does he have good enough stuff to be that good? Don't put all of us in this "we" bucket, please. I've been saying Owens is no MLB starter since I saw him live in High A. Might be an effective 7th/8th inning-type reliever at his peak but I still don't belive in him at all as anything above a #7 or so MLB starter.
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Post by braziliansox on Aug 21, 2016 18:25:34 GMT -5
Farrell is just obsessed with throwing games away, its not like a 5 run deficit is game over, its the perfect time to bring your crappy relievers like Abad and maybe find a comeback. But no, just keep Owens in there until its a huge deficit, since its a sunday afternoon game after all, gotta save that pen. This Farrell obsession isn't healthy. Not sure how you call this throwing the game away, I see it as a normal loss that would happen anytime your starting pitcher is this awful. If you really try you can put this on the manager though, but if you think having anyone else in charge would have made that big of a difference today, perhaps you need to reevaluate your understanding of the sport. Says the guy that thinks he is a great strategist. Btw If he pulled Hank after 5 runs and we got a couple shutdown innings from the pen the game would be tied assuming the same sequence of events on offense (which is not that crazy since Greene is the guy they use in close games anyway). So I dont see how the criticism was unfair. Maybe unnecessary and nitpicking, but not unfair. When you're facing a shaky bullpen and have a great offense, you cant quit the game early because of a 5 run deficit. Owens is the kind of emergency starter that should almost never face a lineup 3 times, you should always have a plan with someone in the pen to piggyback for him. But hey, cant argue against your sound logic that Farrell is gritty and the players love him or something, but if you excuse me I'd rather stick with the tangible stuff and leave the cheap psychologist stuff for the "experts" like yourself.
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Post by philarhody on Aug 21, 2016 18:26:41 GMT -5
Abraham just tweeted "The projected line for Henry Owens: 9 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 9 BB, 21 K, 153 pitches, 90 strikes." Just another idiot writer who doesn't know how projections work and what regression to the mean is about... Please tell me you're joking...
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Post by philarhody on Aug 21, 2016 18:30:54 GMT -5
Henry Owens is going to be a good starting pitcher in this league. His changeup is as good as it gets. The fastball plays way up. The two breaking pitches are pretty good as well. I'd be really surprised to see Boston give up on him for nothing. Hope you're right. Haven't seen many that walk this many batters become good with the velocity of Owens. Ryan and Johnson did it but they had 10 more mph on the fastball. Yeh, "good starting pitcher" and "first ballot hall of famer" are two very different things. But I do think there are so many moving parts it's going to take longer than the norm to get it figured out.
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Post by kyla13 on Aug 21, 2016 18:51:11 GMT -5
This Farrell obsession isn't healthy. Not sure how you call this throwing the game away, I see it as a normal loss that would happen anytime your starting pitcher is this awful. If you really try you can put this on the manager though, but if you think having anyone else in charge would have made that big of a difference today, perhaps you need to reevaluate your understanding of the sport. Says the guy that thinks he is a great strategist. Btw If he pulled Hank after 5 runs and we got a couple shutdown innings from the pen the game would be tied assuming the same sequence of events on offense (which is not that crazy since Greene is the guy they use in close games anyway). So I dont see how the criticism was unfair. Maybe unnecessary and nitpicking, but not unfair. When you're facing a shaky bullpen and have a great offense, you cant quit the game early because of a 5 run deficit. Owens is the kind of emergency starter that should almost never face a lineup 3 times, you should always have a plan with someone in the pen to piggyback for him. But hey, cant argue against your sound logic that Farrell is gritty and the players love him or something, but if you excuse me I'd rather stick with the tangible stuff and leave the cheap psychologist stuff for the "experts" like yourself. It's getting a little intense in here. Let's cool it down a little bit ☺️. Gold in football! I'm so happy for your country.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 21, 2016 19:40:51 GMT -5
I don't mean to kick a guy when he's down but Owens actually lowered his BB/9, from 9.49 to 9.35, in this game. Fair to say that this year has been a step backwards for him. Or three or four steps, really.
Also, I don't like Farrell but anyone who wants to blame him for this game is deranged.
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Post by braziliansox on Aug 21, 2016 19:43:59 GMT -5
Says the guy that thinks he is a great strategist. Btw If he pulled Hank after 5 runs and we got a couple shutdown innings from the pen the game would be tied assuming the same sequence of events on offense (which is not that crazy since Greene is the guy they use in close games anyway). So I dont see how the criticism was unfair. Maybe unnecessary and nitpicking, but not unfair. When you're facing a shaky bullpen and have a great offense, you cant quit the game early because of a 5 run deficit. Owens is the kind of emergency starter that should almost never face a lineup 3 times, you should always have a plan with someone in the pen to piggyback for him. But hey, cant argue against your sound logic that Farrell is gritty and the players love him or something, but if you excuse me I'd rather stick with the tangible stuff and leave the cheap psychologist stuff for the "experts" like yourself. It's getting a little intense in here. Let's cool it down a little bit ☺️. Gold in football! I'm so happy for your country. Thanks man, it was a great day for us, to kind of get back to the germans for The 7-1 (and I really mean kind of, since the stakes were much higher in The world cup) and FINALLY winning The olympics after getting close so many times.
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Post by braziliansox on Aug 21, 2016 19:49:37 GMT -5
I don't mean to kick a guy when he's down but Owens actually lowered his BB/9, from 9.49 to 9.35, in this game. Fair to say that this year has been a step backwards for him. Or three or four steps, really. Also, I don't like Farrell but anyone who wants to blame him for this game is deranged. I'll answer this since it might have been directed to me. I never said the loss was on him at all, just that he kind of threw The game away eliminating the chances of a comeback, that was a long shot for sure, but not enough to let Owens in there too long Just to "save" The pen or something. But hey, must be 8 or 80 I guess, trying to judge a post by what is actually written must be too much work.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 21, 2016 19:58:41 GMT -5
Says the guy that thinks he is a great strategist. Btw If he pulled Hank after 5 runs and we got a couple shutdown innings from the pen the game would be tied assuming the same sequence of events on offense (which is not that crazy since Greene is the guy they use in close games anyway). So I dont see how the criticism was unfair. Maybe unnecessary and nitpicking, but not unfair. When you're facing a shaky bullpen and have a great offense, you cant quit the game early because of a 5 run deficit. Owens is the kind of emergency starter that should almost never face a lineup 3 times, you should always have a plan with someone in the pen to piggyback for him. But hey, cant argue against your sound logic that Farrell is gritty and the players love him or something, but if you excuse me I'd rather stick with the tangible stuff and leave the cheap psychologist stuff for the "experts" like yourself. I'm going to ignore the passive aggressive digs because lmao, but regardless of how I feel about Farrell as a manager, your logic is flawed as hell because as you just said, the bullpen is shaky. Odds are you would not have gotten shutout innings. Owens did not have a high pitch count and it makes no sense to blow the bullpen on a game you would most likely lose anyway. When injuries force you to start Henry Owens against Justin friggin Verlander, you're likely going to lose that game 9 out 10 times with anyone as manager. Next time you want to be condescending and sound smart, be sure you at least nail the second part.
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Post by braziliansox on Aug 21, 2016 20:08:35 GMT -5
Says the guy that thinks he is a great strategist. Btw If he pulled Hank after 5 runs and we got a couple shutdown innings from the pen the game would be tied assuming the same sequence of events on offense (which is not that crazy since Greene is the guy they use in close games anyway). So I dont see how the criticism was unfair. Maybe unnecessary and nitpicking, but not unfair. When you're facing a shaky bullpen and have a great offense, you cant quit the game early because of a 5 run deficit. Owens is the kind of emergency starter that should almost never face a lineup 3 times, you should always have a plan with someone in the pen to piggyback for him. But hey, cant argue against your sound logic that Farrell is gritty and the players love him or something, but if you excuse me I'd rather stick with the tangible stuff and leave the cheap psychologist stuff for the "experts" like yourself. I'm going to ignore the passive aggressive digs because lmao, but regardless of how I feel about Farrell as a manager, your logic is flawed as hell because as you just said, the bullpen is shaky. Odds are you would not have gotten shutout innings. Owens did not have a high pitch count and it makes no sense to blow the bullpen on a game you would most likely lose anyway. When injuries force you to start Henry Owens against Justin friggin Verlander, you're likely going to lose that game 9 out 10 times with anyone as manager. Next time you want to be condescending and sound smart, be sure you at least nail the second part. You really must be related to Farrell or something, you even have the same logic as him. So your point is, when you're unlikely to win a game coming in, you shouldnt manage it to win? Great point. Thats exactly what I mean by throwing games away, thanks for making my point. Dont try to play the victim btw, you started this by calling me out, all I did was disagree with one in game move in the gameday thread (what a monster I am). I've read countless posts of yours that I disagreed and quite frankly found pretty stupid, but never called you out, so I found it pretty funny when you did as all your posts are based on pointless intangible stuff.
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Post by jmei on Aug 21, 2016 20:14:24 GMT -5
Please cut out the personal bickering. Thanks.
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Post by philarhody on Aug 21, 2016 20:27:36 GMT -5
I'm going to ignore the passive aggressive digs because lmao, but regardless of how I feel about Farrell as a manager, your logic is flawed as hell because as you just said, the bullpen is shaky. Odds are you would not have gotten shutout innings. Owens did not have a high pitch count and it makes no sense to blow the bullpen on a game you would most likely lose anyway. When injuries force you to start Henry Owens against Justin friggin Verlander, you're likely going to lose that game 9 out 10 times with anyone as manager. Next time you want to be condescending and sound smart, be sure you at least nail the second part. You really must be related to Farrell or something, you even have the same logic as him. So your point is, when you're unlikely to win a game coming in, you shouldnt manage it to win? Great point. Thats exactly what I mean by throwing games away, thanks for making my point. Dont try to play the victim btw, you started this by calling me out, all I did was disagree with one in game move in the gameday thread (what a monster I am). I've read countless posts of yours that I disagreed and quite frankly found pretty stupid, but never called you out, so I found it pretty funny when you did as all your posts are based on pointless intangible stuff. Well I heard Neymar's on the juice...
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