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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 26, 2017 17:15:12 GMT -5
I also don't get how there is not much bidding up of players' bonuses. How did Flores already get locked in? These agreements have been in place for a long time already. In theory, there's nothing keeping the players from breaking these agreements, but teams have already made their offers and the player has picked one. It's not like a team is going to read Heyman reporting on Flores' bonus and suddenly make a last-ditch effort - they've already tried and made their best offer. As for trading for money, there are teams under penalty for going over the cap previously who won't use their entire cap this year, so that's the most obvious trade source. In theory other teams may just not need all of theirs.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 27, 2017 0:49:36 GMT -5
I wonder if they'll trade from their righty reliever depth to get some more cash to spend on the international market
That Martin/workman/shepherd/buttrey/Callahan/Taylor/Maddox/Ramirez group
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 27, 2017 5:59:24 GMT -5
I also don't get how there is not much bidding up of players' bonuses. How did Flores already get locked in? These agreements have been in place for a long time already. In theory, there's nothing keeping the players from breaking these agreements, but teams have already made their offers and the player has picked one. It's not like a team is going to read Heyman reporting on Flores' bonus and suddenly make a last-ditch effort - they've already tried and made their best offer. As for trading for money, there are teams under penalty for going over the cap previously who won't use their entire cap this year, so that's the most obvious trade source. In theory other teams may just not need all of theirs. I am trying to make sure I understand this process. I will use Flores as an example. Teams make offers to players and the player accepts. Flores offer is $5 mil. The sox also have offers out to 2 other players for 1 mil each. This exceeds the cap or pool money. The sox make a trade with lets say the brewers for minor leaguers in exchange for $3 mil in pool money so the sox can sign their guys. What happens in a case like this and the sox can not get extra monies? Then the deal is off? I would assume that the sox already have a deal in place to get the needed money. But!!
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Post by cardsox on Jun 27, 2017 9:43:44 GMT -5
If you think about it, this is a very good deal for the teams that are not allowed to sign players this cycle. They are trading cap dollars, but I assume not real dollars. In essence they are getting our minor league talent for free. A win-win scenario.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 27, 2017 9:54:14 GMT -5
These agreements have been in place for a long time already. In theory, there's nothing keeping the players from breaking these agreements, but teams have already made their offers and the player has picked one. It's not like a team is going to read Heyman reporting on Flores' bonus and suddenly make a last-ditch effort - they've already tried and made their best offer. As for trading for money, there are teams under penalty for going over the cap previously who won't use their entire cap this year, so that's the most obvious trade source. In theory other teams may just not need all of theirs. I am trying to make sure I understand this process. I will use Flores as an example. Teams make offers to players and the player accepts. Flores offer is $5 mil. The sox also have offers out to 2 other players for 1 mil each. This exceeds the cap or pool money. The sox make a trade with lets say the brewers for minor leaguers in exchange for $3 mil in pool money so the sox can sign their guys. What happens in a case like this and the sox can not get extra monies? Then the deal is off? I would assume that the sox already have a deal in place to get the needed money. But!! Unlike past years, teams cannot exceed their bonus pools. So, a team would not be allowed to sign someone who puts them over the limit. It's similar to the cap in the NFL. I didn't realize this before, but for the next two signing periods, teams can trade for up to 75 percent of their original pool. Therefore, the Red Sox can expand their pool from $4.75 mil to $8.31 mil.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 27, 2017 10:39:00 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 27, 2017 10:45:55 GMT -5
If you think about it, this is a very good deal for the teams that are not allowed to sign players this cycle. They are trading cap dollars, but I assume not real dollars. In essence they are getting our minor league talent for free. A win-win scenario. Well, let's wait and see what the cap money is going for. Under the previous CBA, there was a wide, wide disparity in value being traded for cap money (consider the lone trade that the Red Sox made for their cap money, in which they received DSL pitcher Ramses Rosario). Surely the cap money is worth more now, but I don't think you're necessarily going to see even Role 45 prospects being traded for cap money. We'll see though.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 27, 2017 11:03:48 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2017 11:28:53 GMT -5
Wow, Flores is a man amongst boys. His thighs look like tree trunks. He looks pretty polished for 16.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 27, 2017 11:29:10 GMT -5
For next week's podcast, send us your IFA questions at podcast@soxprospects.com. Our guest to talk about the IFA class (which will be official when we do the episode) may or may not have to do with the previous vermontsox's* post. * - dammit jimed! lol
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 27, 2017 11:31:23 GMT -5
For next week's podcast, send us your IFA questions at podcast@soxprospects.com. Our guest to talk about the IFA class (which will be official when we do the episode) may or may not have to do with the previous vermontsox's* post. * - dammit jimed! lol You made the guess easy Chris lol
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2017 11:41:31 GMT -5
My question is how quickly could a 16 year old catcher who is physically mature and advanced defensively move through the system?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2017 11:42:41 GMT -5
For next week's podcast, send us your IFA questions at podcast@soxprospects.com. Our guest to talk about the IFA class (which will be official when we do the episode) may or may not have to do with the previous vermontsox's* post. * - dammit jimed! lol Hey, I'd be a guest. lol
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 27, 2017 11:53:24 GMT -5
My question is how quickly could a 16 year old catcher who is physically mature and advanced defensively move through the system? We all know we've seen some phenoms over the years that have reached the majors by 20 or even 19 years old. Those guys are very rare, but hypothetically if he was that caliber that would still put him in the 3-4 range. Now I'm no expert, but I feel that being catcher we should anticipate more development time, so perhaps the "phenom" range is more like 4-5 years for him.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 27, 2017 11:56:16 GMT -5
My question is how quickly could a 16 year old catcher who is physically mature and advanced defensively move through the system? Ivan Rodriguez would be the gold standard there, right?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 27, 2017 12:13:50 GMT -5
My question is how quickly could a 16 year old catcher who is physically mature and advanced defensively move through the system? Ivan Rodriguez would be the gold standard there, right? 1 year in the Sally, 1 year in the FSL, month and a half in the Texas League then debut at 19? Yeah, that climb portends a HOFer alright.
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Post by borisman on Jun 27, 2017 12:54:38 GMT -5
My question is how quickly could a 16 year old catcher who is physically mature and advanced defensively move through the system? Ivan Rodriguez would be the gold standard there, right? I would agree. It took him less than 3 years to get up to Texas. Fisk also spent 3 years in the minors but that was in the late '60's. It took Gary Sanchez about 5 years. I'd say about 4 years or so, especially if he can hit. Too bad Swihart didn't advance as a catcher as everyone had hoped. Now he's 25 and stuck in AAA and it's looking like a lost year for him.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 27, 2017 13:30:06 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 27, 2017 13:38:16 GMT -5
Ivan Rodriguez would be the gold standard there, right? I would agree. It took him less than 3 years to get up to Texas. Fisk also spent 3 years in the minors but that was in the late '60's. It took Gary Sanchez about 5 years. I'd say about 4 years or so, especially if he can hit. Fisk came up after three years for a quick call up in '69, but he also spent all of 1970 and most of 1971 back in the minors before getting the call for good that September.
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Post by kman22 on Jun 27, 2017 16:24:48 GMT -5
Diaz climbing into the top 10 is good news.
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Post by ryan24 on Jun 27, 2017 18:45:36 GMT -5
If you think about it, this is a very good deal for the teams that are not allowed to sign players this cycle. They are trading cap dollars, but I assume not real dollars. In essence they are getting our minor league talent for free. A win-win scenario. Well, let's wait and see what the cap money is going for. Under the previous CBA, there was a wide, wide disparity in value being traded for cap money (consider the lone trade that the Red Sox made for their cap money, in which they received DSL pitcher Ramses Rosario). Surely the cap money is worth more now, but I don't think you're necessarily going to see even Role 45 prospects being traded for cap money. We'll see though. No one answered my question. One, could we trade relief pitchers in the minor's for cap monies to sign more international players? Two, a deal would have to be in place to prevent going over the cap and losing out on next year's picks.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jun 27, 2017 18:59:29 GMT -5
Diaz climbing into the top 10 is good news.
IMO his scouting report reads as good as anyone's on there. Big and strong, mobile, good hands, plus arm. Balance in the box, good discipline, little swing and miss, line drives with chance for 60 power.
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texs31
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Post by texs31 on Jun 27, 2017 20:29:28 GMT -5
Well, let's wait and see what the cap money is going for. Under the previous CBA, there was a wide, wide disparity in value being traded for cap money (consider the lone trade that the Red Sox made for their cap money, in which they received DSL pitcher Ramses Rosario). Surely the cap money is worth more now, but I don't think you're necessarily going to see even Role 45 prospects being traded for cap money. We'll see though. No one answered my question. One, could we trade relief pitchers in the minor's for cap monies to sign more international players? Two, a deal would have to be in place to prevent going over the cap and losing out on next year's picks. For your 1st question, I posted an example on PG 3 of this thread where a non-prospect (at least, not ranked by any of the major sources) was traded for 2 slots totalling 756k. So, yes, I imagine we could.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 27, 2017 20:29:33 GMT -5
A good refresher on the new International rules, Its from December: LinkSo the Red Sox could trade up to around $8.3 million, not saying they are going to just that its the most they could. Lets see how the pool money is valued in the trade market, you still have teams that don't value the International market as important while others are dealing with penalties so trades might make more sense for them.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 28, 2017 15:11:58 GMT -5
Tweet says Sox are expected to sign 4 of the Top 50, although the write-ups only state that we are tied to 3. There are a couple uncommitted prospects, so Sox might be zeroing in on one of them (or the tweet was just a typo).
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