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6/19-6/21 Red Sox @ Royals Series Thread
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 21, 2017 16:28:02 GMT -5
2017 Red Sox will continue to amaze and exasperate and delight and confound, it seems....often in the same game.
Well, I get to watch a movie with no distractions tonight anyway.
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 21, 2017 16:29:48 GMT -5
Hanley with game on the line just joking with Perez. Good to see him locked in there with the opportunity to tie it.
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Post by homerdante on Jun 21, 2017 16:31:07 GMT -5
I don't understand the psyche of a person who fails at something repeatedly when all the tools and resources are there for them to not fail if they try. Matt Barnes, does he have something wrong with his brain? His will to be good at something? Guy seems like he doesn't care.
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Post by natesp4 on Jun 21, 2017 16:32:29 GMT -5
That's not even Scott's fault. Under no circumstance should he be pitching in that situation against a righty. (Granted, Perez barely has any split between LHP and RHP). Don't use his SSS '17 splits. He has a massive career platoon split: .887 vs LHP, compared to .676 vs RHP. Agreed, not Scott's fault. Salvy was born to hit bombs off a guy like him, and everyone knows it. Those numbers you cite are actually his 2017 numbers. His career split is .756 vs LHP and .737 vs RHP
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Post by mattpicard on Jun 21, 2017 16:38:47 GMT -5
Don't use his SSS '17 splits. He has a massive career platoon split: .887 vs LHP, compared to .676 vs RHP. Agreed, not Scott's fault. Salvy was born to hit bombs off a guy like him, and everyone knows it. Those numbers you cite are actually his 2017 numbers. His career split is .756 vs LHP and .737 vs RHP Whoa. My bad. Consider me shocked -- I always thought he had a big platoon split.
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Post by station13 on Jun 21, 2017 16:43:08 GMT -5
Barnes got charged with a L, isn't the go-ahead run on Scott's? How is that scored?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 21, 2017 16:49:25 GMT -5
Barnes got charged with a L, isn't the go-ahead run on Scott's? How is that scored? Box score says Scott got the L. And note it's the pitcher when the go-ahead run is scored, I'm pretty sure, not the pitcher to whom that run is charged.
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Post by station13 on Jun 21, 2017 16:52:17 GMT -5
Barnes got charged with a L, isn't the go-ahead run on Scott's? How is that scored? Box score says Scott got the L. And note it's the pitcher when the go-ahead run is scored, I'm pretty sure, not the pitcher to whom that run is charged. They fixed the boxscore, they had Barnes 5-3 L and Scott BS 2.
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Jun 21, 2017 16:57:03 GMT -5
I don't understand the psyche of a person who fails at something repeatedly when all the tools and resources are there for them to not fail if they try. Matt Barnes, does he have something wrong with his brain? His will to be good at something? Guy seems like he doesn't care. there are guys who struggle under pressure in all walks of life. that's a given. To say though that it's a mark of not caring seems silly IMO. More likely the opposite I think. It sounds like a random character insult. I'm damned frustrated at his performance too (and more so at Farrell's). (Pardon typos. I'm one handed and it's not my good hand. Think I got most. It's not that I don't care. :-) )
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 21, 2017 17:01:17 GMT -5
Hanley with game on the line just joking with Perez. Good to see him locked in there with the opportunity to tie it. Glad I turned it off before that happened. Sad to say after the grand slam I figured there was no chance.
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Post by station13 on Jun 21, 2017 17:02:27 GMT -5
Oh crap. Barnes has completely lost his command of the strike zone. With him, you know he has nothing once he throws a few chin high fastballs, which is about 50% of the time.
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Post by p23w on Jun 21, 2017 17:15:23 GMT -5
Signs of bullpen burnout.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 18:01:44 GMT -5
Easy to say in hindsight, but why not bring Kimbrel in for the 8th inning to face 2-3-4, then have your lesser relievers come in for the 9th? I mean, which would you rather have your best reliever facing? 2-3-4, or 5-6-7? I've never understood why so many managers insist on saving their best relievers for the 9th, regardless of the situation. Would Kimbrel really be that butthurt about taking a back seat to Barnes or Kelly once in a while?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 18:10:34 GMT -5
I blame some of this on the ump for calling so many high strikes. You could see the catcher calling each pitch up for Barnes and then when he needed to adjust he lost his release point. Not sure what happened go Scott but he had to come in eventually and they made him pay.
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Post by templeusox on Jun 21, 2017 18:28:20 GMT -5
I'm glad Kimbrel got a day off before an off-day. I'm not a big fan of using your best pitcher when you need him the most.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 21, 2017 19:10:56 GMT -5
Apparently John Farrell has it etched in stone. To win a game where the starter doesn't complete 7 innings, Joe Kelly is the 7th inning pitcher, Matt Barnes is the 8th inning pitcher and Craig Kimbrel is the 9th inning pitcher.
I had thought that was the way he assigned them, but I had heard from others that his usage of Kelly for the 7th had been due to leverage situations, etc. Honestly, I think I was correct. Farrell simply uses Kelly for inning 7, Barnes for inning 8, and Kimbrel for the 9th.
Kimbrel probably should have been the 8th inning pitcher. Maybe he preserves the lead, maybe not. He probably should have gotten a shot, but even if he did put out the fire, then you have to hope that Hembree doesn't blow the game in the 9th.
Obviously it was a gamble worth taking, but it does underscore the options Francona had last year. He had a solid traditional closer in Allen and a serious fireman in Miller.
Kimbrel is quite capable of doing either, but he can't do both at the same time. If Kimbrel is considered equal to Miller of last year, it would be great if the Sox had the equivalent of Allen. I would guess that Kelly is the closest comparison, except he apparently can't pitch back-to-back days and Farrell doesn't like to pitch him late in games - I mean he's pitched alot better than Barnes who seems to always get that primary setup call.
It just makes me wish that one of Thornburg or Smith could be that guy. At this point I hope it's Smith, but I don't know that we'll even see him this year and that if we do he'd be effective.
The bullpen has been quite good and it was way overdue for a meltdown. I'm just surprised they went this long, especially with Barnes having such spotty control. I truly believe the Sox need relief help, but given what Thornburg cost, unless they get a Ziegler type swindle, they'll have to either hope Smith gets healthy or put their faith in Kelly, which would mean some 8th and even 9th inning close duties.
And oh yeah, the offense was uninspiring yet again, although at least this time they maximized the run output given their hit total. Too bad they wasted a good performance out of Pomeranz.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 21, 2017 20:37:35 GMT -5
Kimbrel should of been used for one of those 2 inning saves today when Scott walked Hosmer.
Really there was no where else to go other than a loss at that point if you didn't bring him in.
I also don't know why Kelly couldn't be used to face the two right handed batters to start the 8th and then went to Scott. Why is Farrell so scared of stretching out Kelly in relief a little bit when you knew he was a starter and can probably handle it?
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 21, 2017 21:00:39 GMT -5
Apparently John Farrell has it etched in stone. To win a game where the starter doesn't complete 7 innings, Joe Kelly is the 7th inning pitcher, Matt Barnes is the 8th inning pitcher and Craig Kimbrel is the 9th inning pitcher. I had thought that was the way he assigned them, but I had heard from others that his usage of Kelly for the 7th had been due to leverage situations, etc. Honestly, I think I was correct. Farrell simply uses Kelly for inning 7, Barnes for inning 8, and Kimbrel for the 9th. Kimbrel probably should have been the 8th inning pitcher. Maybe he preserves the lead, maybe not. He probably should have gotten a shot, but even if he did put out the fire, then you have to hope that Hembree doesn't blow the game in the 9th. Obviously it was a gamble worth taking, but it does underscore the options Francona had last year. He had a solid traditional closer in Allen and a serious fireman in Miller. Kimbrel is quite capable of doing either, but he can't do both at the same time. If Kimbrel is considered equal to Miller of last year, it would be great if the Sox had the equivalent of Allen. I would guess that Kelly is the closest comparison, except he apparently can't pitch back-to-back days and Farrell doesn't like to pitch him late in games - I mean he's pitched alot better than Barnes who seems to always get that primary setup call. It just makes me wish that one of Thornburg or Smith could be that guy. At this point I hope it's Smith, but I don't know that we'll even see him this year and that if we do he'd be effective. The bullpen has been quite good and it was way overdue for a meltdown. I'm just surprised they went this long, especially with Barnes having such spotty control. I truly believe the Sox need relief help, but given what Thornburg cost, unless they get a Ziegler type swindle, they'll have to either hope Smith gets healthy or put their faith in Kelly, which would mean some 8th and even 9th inning close duties. And oh yeah, the offense was uninspiring yet again, although at least this time they maximized the run output given their hit total. Too bad they wasted a good performance out of Pomeranz. No. Farrell explained why he wasn't used today. No shock it was not posted here Farrell has used Kimbrel for more than one inning five times this year, including three times on the previous road trip. "Given the workload that he went through, what he was feeling coming out of those three particular appearances, that wasn't something that we looked to entertain," Farrell said. Farrell explained that he used Scott instead of Hembree because Perez has reverse power splits. "His power numbers have come against right-handed pitching by a 2 or 3-to-1 margin, the number of home runs hit," Farrell said. ".230 hitter against left-handers. Didn't happen today." www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/06/john_farrell_boston_red_sox_ma_16.html
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 21, 2017 21:03:07 GMT -5
Kimbrel should of been used for one of those 2 inning saves today when Scott walked Hosmer. Really there was no where else to go other than a loss at that point if you didn't bring him in. I also don't know why Kelly couldn't be used to face the two right handed batters to start the 8th and then went to Scott. Why is Farrell so scared of stretching out Kelly in relief a little bit when you knew he was a starter and can probably handle it? My thoughts exactly - why not bring Kelly back out? That was in my view the first head scratching decision.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 21, 2017 21:04:25 GMT -5
Aka Kimbrel probably asked for some rest.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 21, 2017 21:27:58 GMT -5
Apparently John Farrell has it etched in stone. To win a game where the starter doesn't complete 7 innings, Joe Kelly is the 7th inning pitcher, Matt Barnes is the 8th inning pitcher and Craig Kimbrel is the 9th inning pitcher. I had thought that was the way he assigned them, but I had heard from others that his usage of Kelly for the 7th had been due to leverage situations, etc. Honestly, I think I was correct. Farrell simply uses Kelly for inning 7, Barnes for inning 8, and Kimbrel for the 9th. Kimbrel probably should have been the 8th inning pitcher. Maybe he preserves the lead, maybe not. He probably should have gotten a shot, but even if he did put out the fire, then you have to hope that Hembree doesn't blow the game in the 9th. Obviously it was a gamble worth taking, but it does underscore the options Francona had last year. He had a solid traditional closer in Allen and a serious fireman in Miller. Kimbrel is quite capable of doing either, but he can't do both at the same time. If Kimbrel is considered equal to Miller of last year, it would be great if the Sox had the equivalent of Allen. I would guess that Kelly is the closest comparison, except he apparently can't pitch back-to-back days and Farrell doesn't like to pitch him late in games - I mean he's pitched alot better than Barnes who seems to always get that primary setup call. It just makes me wish that one of Thornburg or Smith could be that guy. At this point I hope it's Smith, but I don't know that we'll even see him this year and that if we do he'd be effective. The bullpen has been quite good and it was way overdue for a meltdown. I'm just surprised they went this long, especially with Barnes having such spotty control. I truly believe the Sox need relief help, but given what Thornburg cost, unless they get a Ziegler type swindle, they'll have to either hope Smith gets healthy or put their faith in Kelly, which would mean some 8th and even 9th inning close duties. And oh yeah, the offense was uninspiring yet again, although at least this time they maximized the run output given their hit total. Too bad they wasted a good performance out of Pomeranz. No. Farrell explained why he wasn't used today. No shock it was not posted here Farrell has used Kimbrel for more than one inning five times this year, including three times on the previous road trip. "Given the workload that he went through, what he was feeling coming out of those three particular appearances, that wasn't something that we looked to entertain," Farrell said. Farrell explained that he used Scott instead of Hembree because Perez has reverse power splits. "His power numbers have come against right-handed pitching by a 2 or 3-to-1 margin, the number of home runs hit," Farrell said. ".230 hitter against left-handers. Didn't happen today." www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/06/john_farrell_boston_red_sox_ma_16.htmlI wasn't suggesting using Kimbrel for 2 innings. Like others here the point is he could have been used to get 3 outs in the 8th inning with the task of trying to prevent the Royals from tying the game. The 9th inning would have went to somebody else - most likely Hembree.
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Post by brendan98 on Jun 21, 2017 21:35:21 GMT -5
I think, unfortunately, Farrell has decided that Barnes is better than he is, hopefully he starts paying attention to how mediocre Barnes has been lately. Barnes has had 1 clean outing in 9 June appearances, against 9 clean outings in his first 24 appearances this season. His batting avg against has gone up every month (April .167, May .240, June .267), and his walk rate is way up this month.
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Post by widewordofsport on Jun 21, 2017 21:54:53 GMT -5
Hanley with game on the line just joking with Perez. Good to see him locked in there with the opportunity to tie it. Remember when Manny said this down 3-1 to Cleveland "If it doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like the end of the world or something." and then only managed to get on base three times the next game as they started their comeback? As long as he's not joking while the pitch is on the way, I don't really care. Maybe Barnes/Scott would have been better off getting out of their heads and joking around a bit.
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Post by Smittyw on Jun 22, 2017 6:27:21 GMT -5
No. Farrell explained why he wasn't used today. No shock it was not posted here Farrell has used Kimbrel for more than one inning five times this year, including three times on the previous road trip. "Given the workload that he went through, what he was feeling coming out of those three particular appearances, that wasn't something that we looked to entertain," Farrell said. Farrell explained that he used Scott instead of Hembree because Perez has reverse power splits. "His power numbers have come against right-handed pitching by a 2 or 3-to-1 margin, the number of home runs hit," Farrell said. ".230 hitter against left-handers. Didn't happen today." www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/06/john_farrell_boston_red_sox_ma_16.htmlI wasn't suggesting using Kimbrel for 2 innings. Like others here the point is he could have been used to get 3 outs in the 8th inning with the task of trying to prevent the Royals from tying the game. The 9th inning would have went to somebody else - most likely Hembree. But muh saves.
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Post by sibbysisti on Jun 22, 2017 7:21:51 GMT -5
This etched in stone routine of closer for ninth, set-up guy for eigth, seventh inning guy for seventh drives me crazy. It shows managers are more focused on stats and individual awards than wins.
I've long advocated that, if a guy is lights out in the eigth, he must be in a groove. So let him at least start the ninth. But no, agents rule.
Been a supporter and defender of Farrell for a long time and applauded him when he brought Kimbrell in the eigth on some occasions to get a tough out or two. But this one confounds me, especially with a day off today.
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