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2018 Red Sox roster building
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 26, 2017 9:25:32 GMT -5
Not sure if this goes here but this is the roster building thread so I figured why not. Who is the biggest question mark for the Sox in this coming year? For me it is David Price and it isn't close. Yes there are many many players who need to rebound from an off year but none of them are 30mil. guys with as much potential or expectations. That is what comes with a contract like that. So it hasn't been discussed much and I wanted to hear your thoughts on the Sox highest paid player who has so many question marks. I mean he is supposed to be competing for a Cy Young right? How concerned should we be that the Sox will be saddled with a terrible contract for a guy who may never come close to living up to it based on his elbow? Health wise he should be good to go. Dave said that the doctors told him that if Price made it through the end of the year, he should be fine to start this season. I'm not really sure what people plan to expect from Price. At his best he is one of the best innings eaters in the game. At times he might have diminished velocity, which could lead to mixed results, but he is still very valuable at even his salary. If he comes in and just is David Price and not the injured David Price, the Sox might have the best rotations in the game when Eduardo comes back. I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I'm thinking the biggest question mark is Xander. Cora and his coaching staff are going to completely revamp this lineups approach to taking pitches early in the count. Xander is the biggest example of Red Sox players who took WAY too many hittable pitches in the zone early in the counts last year. I want to see if it can help Xander by being more aggressive or if it'll hurt him in the long run. I hope Cora can close his stance a little too. I'd love to cut out a few more of these bloop singles to opposite field and focus on driving the ball to all fields. It's a lot to ask for a 24 year old who has been in the league for over 4 years. That is why he is the biggest question mark for me.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 26, 2017 9:39:56 GMT -5
Not sure if this goes here but this is the roster building thread so I figured why not. Who is the biggest question mark for the Sox in this coming year? For me it is David Price and it isn't close. Yes there are many many players who need to rebound from an off year but none of them are 30mil. guys with as much potential or expectations. That is what comes with a contract like that. So it hasn't been discussed much and I wanted to hear your thoughts on the Sox highest paid player who has so many question marks. I mean he is supposed to be competing for a Cy Young right? How concerned should we be that the Sox will be saddled with a terrible contract for a guy who may never come close to living up to it based on his elbow? Health wise he should be good to go. Dave said that the doctors told him that if Price made it through the end of the year, he should be fine to start this season. I'm not really sure what people plan to expect from Price. At his best he is one of the best innings eaters in the game. At times he might have diminished velocity, which could lead to mixed results, but he is still very valuable at even his salary. If he comes in and just is David Price and not the injured David Price, the Sox might have the best rotations in the game when Eduardo comes back. I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I'm thinking the biggest question mark is Xander. Cora and his coaching staff are going to completely revamp this lineups approach to taking pitches early in the count. Xander is the biggest example of Red Sox players who took WAY too many hittable pitches in the zone early in the counts last year. I want to see if it can help Xander by being more aggressive or if it'll hurt him in the long run. I hope Cora can close his stance a little too. I'd love to cut out a few more of these bloop singles to opposite field and focus on driving the ball to all fields. It's a lot to ask for a 24 year old who has been in the league for over 4 years. That is why he is the biggest question mark for me. At least with so many of our guys, there seems to be nowhere to go but up.
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Post by jiant2520 on Dec 26, 2017 12:47:38 GMT -5
Not sure this is the biggest concern, but for me its whether or not Sale will be able to pitch well in October, even September too, as he has never done it. Will he get enough rest throughout the season to stay fresh?
I have some concern will Prices injury, but I think he should be ready. Yes, I would like Bogey to drive the ball and take less strikes, but he has been a good hitter.
I think Sale in the postseason is the biggest difference maker, we gave up a lot to get him, when he starts, I should feel like we have a great chance to win the game, but in October, I am not sure how confident I am, based off his history.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 26, 2017 13:03:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I think piggybacking on both of your posts, pitcher durability and how Cora handles that will be a pretty big key in 2018. Much has been made about how hard Farrell pushed Sale, but Rick Porcello faced more batters than any other pitcher in baseball in 2017. Whether that contributed to his ineffectiveness (in my opinion it did, but I'd prefer not to get too deeply into that argument), or merely exacerbated the negative effects of it because he was pitching innings that should have been taken by the bullpen, either way it was bad managing. Then we have Price coming off of injury and needing to ramp up, Rodriguez coming back at some point, Pomeranz never having been an innings muncher, and Wright probably needing time to ramp up...
I criticized Farrell a lot over the last couple years for managing in an overly reactive way that seemed to be how he'd have wanted to be managed as a player. The Red Sox are in a weird spot, because I think they have as much or more pitching talent as any team in the AL, but that talent is probably less durable. So seeing how Cora works with that, whether it's deploying someone like Johnson or Velazquez in a multi-inning role, being proactive with his bullpen, etc. is the biggest question/concern I have.
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Post by gerry on Dec 26, 2017 13:10:07 GMT -5
Health wise he should be good to go. Dave said that the doctors told him that if Price made it through the end of the year, he should be fine to start this season. I'm not really sure what people plan to expect from Price. At his best he is one of the best innings eaters in the game. At times he might have diminished velocity, which could lead to mixed results, but he is still very valuable at even his salary. If he comes in and just is David Price and not the injured David Price, the Sox might have the best rotations in the game when Eduardo comes back. I'm at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. I'm thinking the biggest question mark is Xander. Cora and his coaching staff are going to completely revamp this lineups approach to taking pitches early in the count. Xander is the biggest example of Red Sox players who took WAY too many hittable pitches in the zone early in the counts last year. I want to see if it can help Xander by being more aggressive or if it'll hurt him in the long run. I hope Cora can close his stance a little too. I'd love to cut out a few more of these bloop singles to opposite field and focus on driving the ball to all fields. It's a lot to ask for a 24 year old who has been in the league for over 4 years. That is why he is the biggest question mark for me. At least with so many of our guys, there seems to be nowhere to go but up. Your response is the biggest reason most fans are confident this is, for the third year in a row, a postseason team. So many injuries, illnesses, distractions for so many players who would love to have a "normal" season. Specifically, a succesful year from several of Beni, Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Brentz, Pedroia, Hanley, Moreland, Leon, Swihart, Hernandez, Lin as well as Price, Porcello, Wright, ERod, Johnson, Smith, Thornburg, Workman, Taylor should propel this team past 93W. Add in most effective use of such players as Sale, Pom, Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, Devers, Holt, Marrero, Velasquez, Quiroz; and add a big bat ... I am not worried a bit about this Red Sox team's place in the MLB 2018!Pantheon.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 26, 2017 14:07:34 GMT -5
There are a lot of keys to this season.
David Price among the pitchers and Xander Bogaerts among the hitters are certainly key players. I think Hanley is very important although the Sox mitigated that risk somewhat meaning the Sox would at least get about average production rather than fall off a cliff offensively if Hanley doesn't perform, but a healthy productive Hanley is a difference maker in the lineup.
I think the offense has the potential to be pretty good.
It's going to be strange watching a new approach occur. I remember how much flack Mike Greenwell used to get for constantly swinging at the first pitch, and it made all the sense in the world to grind out ABs, look for walks, try to knock the starter out to get to the soft underbelly of the bullpen, but now it's different. The idea is to be aggressive (hopefully aggressive as opposed to being stupid or wreckless) with at-bats, be more sensible on the basebaths, and of course launch angle is becoming a keyword.
I wonder how all this will impact the Sox. It could help Mookie Betts. I'd expect him to have a season closer to 2016 than 2017. I also think a healthy Xander will be an offensive asset, although I don't know if it's the .320 hitting singles type of asset or the .290 with 20 homer type of asset kind of guy. He's the one that could go in any direction while we all hope he becomes the .300 hitting 30 homer guy some of us thought he'd be.
I think Benintendi will take a big step forward. I want to say the same with Devers, but there could be some big struggles in there. I still think, when all is said and done this year, Devers will give them a solid season. It might not be the .300 with 40 homer season that we think he might have in him down the road but it will certainly be more than they cumulatively got at 3b last season.
JBJ? Don't really know what to make of him. He'll have a great May? He'll play great defense? He's fine batting 9th?
I really, really hope that Hanley gets first crack at a 1b job with Moreland as defensive support and the guy that gives Hanley his breather rather than as a Moreland/Hanley platoon where we get a lot of Moreland and very little offense out of Hanley. I'm curious to see what Cora does here.
I'm also curious to see how the roster shakes out with catching. Do they keep Leon because Sale likes pitching to him or do they give Swihart a shot? Hard to see both making the roster? I don't know that Vazquez hits like he did last year, but I see him getting more ABs this time around.
I'm also interested to see how 2b shakes out until Pedroia comes back. I'm curious about Quiroz although I do anticipate the Sox going with a Hernandez/Marrero platoon.
But while I see the offense being better and being a lot better if they land Martinez, I think the pitching will not be anywhere near as good as last season. I don't see the Sox putting up a 3.7 ERA again.
Of course if the Sox stand pat, then the offense should better, probably a top 4 offense, but clearly behind the others, but if they do get JD Martinez, the offense, if it stays reasonably healthy should be a top 3 offense and not far behind the others.
David Price looked awesome at the end of the season, but I have trouble seeing him stay healthy all season long. I also don't think Sale will be as good as he was last season. He looked Pedroesque during the first half. I'm wondering if the ball they used for the playoffs will be the same type of ball they use this season, the one where sliders were tough to grip. That could be an issue for Sale in addition to keeping him fresh.
I think Pomeranz is in for regression. He squirted out of a lot of jams last season. I can see his ERA going up a half a run if not more. I also don't know how his arm holds up by September. I'm not sure Porcello bounces back this season or even improves much. He was legitimately terrible last season. A lot of hard contact. Also don't know how E-Rod's knee holds up.
Where I think the Red Sox are better is depth, although I'm not sure if they wind up losing Johnson. I like Velazquez and Beeks could also help and a healthy Steven Wright can be a difference maker in the rotation.
As far as the pen goes there's a lot of uncertainty there, too. Kimbrel is awesome but he'll be hard-pressed to be as awesome as he was last year. I figure he'll be a notch below - better than 2016 but not quite 2017.
After that it's a real crapshoot in the pen. You'd think Barnes would take a step forward or Joe Kelly would finally figure it out. I actually trust Brandon Workman over those two guys, although he tired out last season. I think Carson Smith will emerge as the primary 8th inning guy but that Thornburg will never be the same pitcher he was - that TOS will mess him up. Other than Scott I have no idea who the lefty in the pen would be - maybe Tony Watson?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2017 16:03:07 GMT -5
Not sure if this goes here but this is the roster building thread so I figured why not. Who is the biggest question mark for the Sox in this coming year? For me it is David Price and it isn't close. Yes there are many many players who need to rebound from an off year but none of them are 30mil. guys with as much potential or expectations. That is what comes with a contract like that. So it hasn't been discussed much and I wanted to hear your thoughts on the Sox highest paid player who has so many question marks. I mean he is supposed to be competing for a Cy Young right? How concerned should we be that the Sox will be saddled with a terrible contract for a guy who may never come close to living up to it based on his elbow? Without a doubt Price is number one for me. The way he described his injury was about as bad as it gets. I know reports say it's healing and he should recover, but to what percentage ? 90%, 80%, 70% of the true David Price? When you look at 2016, then the injury in 2017, I can't help but think he should have just had surgery. Then maybe at the end of 2018 he would be 100% or by 2019 for sure. Giving us 4 years of a 100% healthy David Price. Now I fear he will limp along not even close to 100% till he completely blows it out and misses 12-18 months. I hope I'm dead wrong, but his struggles in 2016, then followed by his injury in 2017 screams TJ surgery to me. Would have rather just got it over with. We might have just wasted a year of David Price. This just brings back memories of Lackey struggling before TJ. Then after the Surgery he came back and was again a great pitcher.
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Post by p23w on Dec 26, 2017 16:56:54 GMT -5
Not sure if this goes here but this is the roster building thread so I figured why not. Who is the biggest question mark for the Sox in this coming year? For me it is David Price and it isn't close. Yes there are many many players who need to rebound from an off year but none of them are 30mil. guys with as much potential or expectations. That is what comes with a contract like that. So it hasn't been discussed much and I wanted to hear your thoughts on the Sox highest paid player who has so many question marks. I mean he is supposed to be competing for a Cy Young right? How concerned should we be that the Sox will be saddled with a terrible contract for a guy who may never come close to living up to it based on his elbow? Way too early to ask, let alone respond to this question. The Ides of March is when this question can (and needs to be) asked/answered. Price's main contribution/hindrance to this team is not his stats (no one contends that when healthy he is a top 10 starter in the AL) but his enormous salary. If the obligation to Price prohibits the team from signing Sale, Kimbrel or even Pomeranz (and further down the road Betts) then the time is now to win (with Price), because this team has no chance without Sale/Kimbrel.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 26, 2017 17:46:54 GMT -5
Not sure if this goes here but this is the roster building thread so I figured why not. Who is the biggest question mark for the Sox in this coming year? For me it is David Price and it isn't close. Yes there are many many players who need to rebound from an off year but none of them are 30mil. guys with as much potential or expectations. That is what comes with a contract like that. So it hasn't been discussed much and I wanted to hear your thoughts on the Sox highest paid player who has so many question marks. I mean he is supposed to be competing for a Cy Young right? How concerned should we be that the Sox will be saddled with a terrible contract for a guy who may never come close to living up to it based on his elbow? Without a doubt Price is number one for me. The way he described his injury was about as bad as it gets. I know reports say it's healing and he should recover, but to what percentage ? 90%, 80%, 70% of the true David Price? When you look at 2016, then the injury in 2017, I can't help but think he should have just had surgery. Then maybe at the end of 2018 he would be 100% or by 2019 for sure. Giving us 4 years of a 100% healthy David Price. Now I fear he will limp along not even close to 100% till he completely blows it out and misses 12-18 months. I hope I'm dead wrong, but his struggles in 2016, then followed by his injury in 2017 screams TJ surgery to me. Would have rather just got it over with. We might have just wasted a year of David Price. This just brings back memories of Lackey struggling before TJ. Then after the Surgery he came back and was again a great pitcher. Dr. Andrews said that Price has a very unique UCL that he has only seen one other time - for Nolan Ryan. It's unique in that it heals itself. I know that sounds crazy, but those were his words give or take.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 26, 2017 20:36:00 GMT -5
Without a doubt Price is number one for me. The way he described his injury was about as bad as it gets. I know reports say it's healing and he should recover, but to what percentage ? 90%, 80%, 70% of the true David Price? When you look at 2016, then the injury in 2017, I can't help but think he should have just had surgery. Then maybe at the end of 2018 he would be 100% or by 2019 for sure. Giving us 4 years of a 100% healthy David Price. Now I fear he will limp along not even close to 100% till he completely blows it out and misses 12-18 months. I hope I'm dead wrong, but his struggles in 2016, then followed by his injury in 2017 screams TJ surgery to me. Would have rather just got it over with. We might have just wasted a year of David Price. This just brings back memories of Lackey struggling before TJ. Then after the Surgery he came back and was again a great pitcher. Dr. Andrews said that Price has a very unique UCL that he has only seen one other time - for Nolan Ryan. It's unique in that it heals itself. I know that sounds crazy, but those were his words give or take. That about sumes it up. Which is why I'm worried, it's a case study of only one guy. Either he's just like Nolan Ryan(we sure hope he is) or he's like everyone else that suffers an injury like Price described and needs TJ. I don't like those odds.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 26, 2017 22:02:57 GMT -5
Ryan & Price - mutants moving the human species forward, at least those who like to launch baseballs at 95+ mph. Honorary X-Men, maybe?
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Post by larrycook on Dec 26, 2017 22:24:36 GMT -5
Without a doubt Price is number one for me. The way he described his injury was about as bad as it gets. I know reports say it's healing and he should recover, but to what percentage ? 90%, 80%, 70% of the true David Price? When you look at 2016, then the injury in 2017, I can't help but think he should have just had surgery. Then maybe at the end of 2018 he would be 100% or by 2019 for sure. Giving us 4 years of a 100% healthy David Price. Now I fear he will limp along not even close to 100% till he completely blows it out and misses 12-18 months. I hope I'm dead wrong, but his struggles in 2016, then followed by his injury in 2017 screams TJ surgery to me. Would have rather just got it over with. We might have just wasted a year of David Price. This just brings back memories of Lackey struggling before TJ. Then after the Surgery he came back and was again a great pitcher. Dr. Andrews said that Price has a very unique UCL that he has only seen one other time - for Nolan Ryan. It's unique in that it heals itself. I know that sounds crazy, but those were his words give or take. If anybody other than dr. Andrews says that, those words would be received with a healthy dose of skepticism, followed several volleys of snide replies. There is something to be said for being the best of the best!
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Post by p23w on Dec 26, 2017 22:34:56 GMT -5
Ryan & Price - mutants moving the human species forward, at least those who like to launch baseballs at 95+ mph. Honorary X-Men, maybe? Justin Verlander is a charter member of the X-men.
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Post by webster7777 on Dec 27, 2017 9:12:45 GMT -5
Red Sox should try to sign Carlos Gonzales to DH for them for a year. He can build up his stats for a year and rotate around the outfield. I have come around to not paying JD because I think anyone making over 25 million should be paid to superstars and he isn't one. He is a good player but not great.
Red Sox should save money for next year and see if they can get Machado or Harper. You pay for those talents. I am just tired of the Red Sox making so many mistakes with contracts and us as consumers pay for it while they raise prices to see dead weight on the team.
The worst mistake the Red Sox did was let Theo leave. Henry should have had Lucchino leave a long time ago. I feel the Red Sox would be in better position talent wise and have a very good farm system to boot.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 27, 2017 9:39:10 GMT -5
... Red Sox should save money for next year and see if they can get Machado or Harper. You pay for those talents. I am just tired of the Red Sox making so many mistakes with contracts and us as consumers pay for it while they raise prices to see dead weight on the team. ... Ticket prices are a function of demand, not player salaries. This has been discussed quite a few times in the past, in multiple threads. You can use the site's search function to scout those out and get a feel for that.
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Post by webster7777 on Dec 27, 2017 9:46:55 GMT -5
Yes I know about supply and demand thank you for setting me straight.
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Post by webster7777 on Dec 27, 2017 10:27:35 GMT -5
Also if the team ends up losing the demand goes down. We know the secondary market buys all the remaining tickets at the beginning of the year so they miss out. That is why they say the games are sold out even when the games are not packed. They only sell a few amount of tickets on game day. Also the Red Sox own some secondary entities that should be illegal since they are the original sellers.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 27, 2017 11:07:20 GMT -5
given the small size of LF at Fenway, the LFers arm is more important, and range less important, than on most teams. But the point I was making is that aside from a single year of poor range and a single (different) year of a poor arm, JDM had been just fine defensively and shouldn't be a liability if he plays some LF next year. My hope of course is still that he gets signed by the Red Sox to be primarily a DH as it should keep him healthy and allow for their best team to be on the field. Bolded part is what I disagree with. If anything, you can get away with a weaker arm because the throws aren't as long and the wall will naturally keep some runners from testing the left fielder. An average arm in LF is more palatable than in a park with normal LF dimensions. That said, agreed on the rest, so let's just agree to disagree.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 27, 2017 11:23:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I think piggybacking on both of your posts, pitcher durability and how Cora handles that will be a pretty big key in 2018. Much has been made about how hard Farrell pushed Sale, but Rick Porcello faced more batters than any other pitcher in baseball in 2017. Whether that contributed to his ineffectiveness (in my opinion it did, but I'd prefer not to get too deeply into that argument), or merely exacerbated the negative effects of it because he was pitching innings that should have been taken by the bullpen, either way it was bad managing. Then we have Price coming off of injury and needing to ramp up, Rodriguez coming back at some point, Pomeranz never having been an innings muncher, and Wright probably needing time to ramp up... I criticized Farrell a lot over the last couple years for managing in an overly reactive way that seemed to be how he'd have wanted to be managed as a player. The Red Sox are in a weird spot, because I think they have as much or more pitching talent as any team in the AL, but that talent is probably less durable. So seeing how Cora works with that, whether it's deploying someone like Johnson or Velazquez in a multi-inning role, being proactive with his bullpen, etc. is the biggest question/concern I have. Porcello was first, and Sale sixth, in batters faced among MLB pitchers. Sale was second, and Porcello fourth, in pitches thrown. Pomeranz was 42nd in batters faced and 27th in pitches thrown. And per this questionable site I found ( www.teamrankings.com/mlb/player-stat/pitches-per-game someone tell me if this is corroborated on B-Ref, FG, or elsewhere), Sale was first, Porcello 12th, and Pomeranz 35th in pitches per start last year. Obviously, some of this is self-selecting (if you suck, you're not going to make it to 106 pitches to begin with), but either way, their workloads were their workloads. So yeah, I think monitoring the workload of those three will be near the top of the to-do list for Cora this year.
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Post by gerry on Dec 27, 2017 11:52:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I think piggybacking on both of your posts, pitcher durability and how Cora handles that will be a pretty big key in 2018. Much has been made about how hard Farrell pushed Sale, but Rick Porcello faced more batters than any other pitcher in baseball in 2017. Whether that contributed to his ineffectiveness (in my opinion it did, but I'd prefer not to get too deeply into that argument), or merely exacerbated the negative effects of it because he was pitching innings that should have been taken by the bullpen, either way it was bad managing. Then we have Price coming off of injury and needing to ramp up, Rodriguez coming back at some point, Pomeranz never having been an innings muncher, and Wright probably needing time to ramp up... I criticized Farrell a lot over the last couple years for managing in an overly reactive way that seemed to be how he'd have wanted to be managed as a player. The Red Sox are in a weird spot, because I think they have as much or more pitching talent as any team in the AL, but that talent is probably less durable. So seeing how Cora works with that, whether it's deploying someone like Johnson or Velazquez in a multi-inning role, being proactive with his bullpen, etc. is the biggest question/concern I have. Porcello was first, and Sale sixth, in batters faced among MLB pitchers. Sale was second, and Porcello fourth, in pitches thrown. Pomeranz was 42nd in batters faced and 27th in pitches thrown. And per this questionable site I found ( www.teamrankings.com/mlb/player-stat/pitches-per-game someone tell me if this is corroborated on B-Ref, FG, or elsewhere), Sale was first, Porcello 12th, and Pomeranz 35th in pitches per start last year. Obviously, some of this is self-selecting (if you suck, you're not going to make it to 106 pitches to begin with), but either way, their workloads were their workloads. So yeah, I think monitoring the workload of those three will be near the top of the to-do list for Cora this year. Given this information from James and Chris re: extreme usage of Porcello, Sale, Pom in 2017, I wonder if the "World Series hangover" dilemma might apply in 2018. Might it also apply to Velasquez who seemingly pitched thru summer, fall and winter leagues non-stop? Having this deep bullpen will be a big help if this hangover effect is real. By the same token, the minimal use, due to injury, of Price, ERod, Wright and Johnson might allow them to add innings to compensate, and be effective when the rust is gone. It is good having 8+ good SP's and BP depth.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 27, 2017 13:42:51 GMT -5
Just trying to connect the dots on J.D. Martinez, would everyone say that Boras bringing Martinez to the winter meetings is a sign of desperation due to a lack of market?
That is how I take it. When is the last time a player of that magnitude had to go virtually sell himself to teams trying to bid on his services?
I know it happens all the time to players who are looking for jobs and are trying to make it to the majors (Chris Callabello comes to mind, he use to tell everyone how'd he'd go to the winter meetings to sell himself), but Martinez is a big time free agent and doesn't really need to sell himself outside of his stats.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 27, 2017 14:08:28 GMT -5
Just trying to connect the dots on J.D. Martinez, would everyone say that Boras bringing Martinez to the winter meetings is a sign of desperation due to a lack of market? That is how I take it. When is the last time a player of that magnitude had to go virtually sell himself to teams trying to bid on his services? I know it happens all the time to players who are looking for jobs and are trying to make it to the majors (Chris Callabello comes to mind, he use to tell everyone how'd he'd go to the winter meetings to sell himself), but Martinez is a big time free agent and doesn't really need to sell himself outside of his stats. It seems kind of strange to me. It's a little different than a Chris Callabello who's simply trying to get a job. It's like Boras is trying to have him sell himself as an elite hitter worthy of humungous dollars. I do think Martinez is one of the best hitters in baseball - don't know if the word "elite" is appropriate here, but he's better than very good. Obviously he has until spring training or whatever to sign, but at this point, I've got to wonder - who does he want to play for? I get that it's usually all about the money, but c'mon here, do you want to sign with what is probably the only team willing to throw very huge dollars at you or hope that somebody gets crazy and desperate as spring training nears? Does he want to play for the Red Sox or not? I'm guessing the Sox are at around 5 years $110 million or perhaps even 6 years $132 and Boras is looking for 7 years $200 million and since the Sox wouldn't be close he's waiting for somebody, anybody to jump on in. The really big market teams like LA and NY aren't biting, and the wealthier teams like SF and the Cubs aren't biting. So that leaves a lower middle class team like Toronto. Is it totally all about the money or do you actually want to play for the Red Sox, as you'd have to play for somebody? There's nothing wrong with Martinez and Boras are doing and certainly nothing wrong with how the Red Sox are handling it, and my feelings certainly don't matter here, but since this is a board to talk about the Red Sox, I have to admit the excitement of the will he or won't he sign is kind of diminished. At this point you would think he'd sign with the Sox - don't know if anybody is going to anywhere near what Boras wants his client to get, but even if the Sox get him I personally won't feel as excited as I would have been had they landed him at the winter meetings or thereabouts - and yes, I know rationally it doesn't matter when they get him - makes no difference at all, yet irrationally the feeling about it is only kind of diminished. The only real intense feeling left is disappointment if they don't get him, because I think he possesses the only bat that's a true difference maker out there, and I wouldn't put any major stock in the idea of the Sox signing Bryce Harper or Manny Machado next offseason. Doubt those things happen.
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Post by ryan24 on Dec 27, 2017 14:14:05 GMT -5
Just trying to connect the dots on J.D. Martinez, would everyone say that Boras bringing Martinez to the winter meetings is a sign of desperation due to a lack of market? That is how I take it. When is the last time a player of that magnitude had to go virtually sell himself to teams trying to bid on his services? I know it happens all the time to players who are looking for jobs and are trying to make it to the majors (Chris Callabello comes to mind, he use to tell everyone how'd he'd go to the winter meetings to sell himself), but Martinez is a big time free agent and doesn't really need to sell himself outside of his stats. Desperation is a strong word. I think I would go with that. Certainly JDM and Scott are VERY concerned about the market. I like what umass proposed. Offer a number with a deadline. Lower the numbers each time Scott goes past the deadline. Maybe in Feb you end up with JDM 3 yrs for 25per. Probably spitting in the wind, but you never know. Cleve got a great deal on EE last year. Lots of good points made on this site about who really is the market for JDM?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 27, 2017 14:24:02 GMT -5
Porcello was first, and Sale sixth, in batters faced among MLB pitchers. Sale was second, and Porcello fourth, in pitches thrown. Pomeranz was 42nd in batters faced and 27th in pitches thrown. And per this questionable site I found ( www.teamrankings.com/mlb/player-stat/pitches-per-game someone tell me if this is corroborated on B-Ref, FG, or elsewhere), Sale was first, Porcello 12th, and Pomeranz 35th in pitches per start last year. Obviously, some of this is self-selecting (if you suck, you're not going to make it to 106 pitches to begin with), but either way, their workloads were their workloads. So yeah, I think monitoring the workload of those three will be near the top of the to-do list for Cora this year. Given this information from James and Chris re: extreme usage of Porcello, Sale, Pom in 2017, I wonder if the "World Series hangover" dilemma might apply in 2018. Might it also apply to Velasquez who seemingly pitched thru summer, fall and winter leagues non-stop? Having this deep bullpen will be a big help if this hangover effect is real. By the same token, the minimal use, due to injury, of Price, ERod, Wright and Johnson might allow them to add innings to compensate, and be effective when the rust is gone. It is good having 8+ good SP's and BP depth. Velazquez didn't pitch in Mexico until December 15. He had two and a half months off. (Also noteworthy is that he threw all of 8 innings in September/October, 4 of those on October 1, so he basically had September off too.) They also handled him with kid gloves to start the season on account of his pitching 216 innings between the Mexican summer and winter leagues the previous season, leading to his only having pitched 126 innings in the U.S. this year. The Mexican League's regular season ends this week, with the playoffs taking the month of January. He's only made two starts, so assume he makes one more, bringing him to 10 or 11 innings in the regular season, then makes like 4 playoff starts at most - he still will fall WELL short of his innings total from 2016. I'm not concerned about him.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 27, 2017 14:35:24 GMT -5
...Porcello was first, and Sale sixth, in batters faced among MLB pitchers. Sale was second, and Porcello fourth, in pitches thrown. Pomeranz was 42nd in batters faced and 27th in pitches thrown. And per this questionable site I found ( www.teamrankings.com/mlb/player-stat/pitches-per-game someone tell me if this is corroborated on B-Ref, FG, or elsewhere), Sale was first, Porcello 12th, and Pomeranz 35th in pitches per start last year. Obviously, some of this is self-selecting (if you suck, you're not going to make it to 106 pitches to begin with), but either way, their workloads were their workloads. So yeah, I think monitoring the workload of those three will be near the top of the to-do list for Cora this year. Went to the gamelogs on BR and did a quick calculation for Sale and Porcello and starts was all they made. Sale had 32 for a total of 3428 pitches and an average of 107.125, while Porcello started 33 games and threw 3383 pitches for an average of 102.51. Both those are higher than that site has them at. So it may be a little shaky.
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