bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Feb 15, 2018 19:54:50 GMT -5
So where would that leave Holt? Not sure about Holt but I think the addition of Nunez leads to Marrero being released.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Feb 15, 2018 19:55:01 GMT -5
Love to see Nunie back, seems like a great guy to have on the team along with being versatile on the field.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 15, 2018 20:03:19 GMT -5
Nunez is better than Hanley at least and he'll fill in until Pedrioa is back.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2018 20:04:31 GMT -5
So I’m obviously very happy about this. Chris, I understand your point in that you think that Hernandez “would at least come reasonably close to that for far less money”, but why do we really care? I want the player who’s more likely to succeed with the bat in Fenway than the one who’s less likely to succeed. It’s a one year deal. They are committed to being over the tax anyways so it really doesn’t hurt the team.This is a team with enough wild cards and question marks. It needs less. A good player who can handle the stick at the super utility spot is very important and Nunez has a higher likelihood of being that guy so on a one year deal it’s great. If it were multi year deal, then i might be with you but for one year so don’t see why money matters. It's true. They're over no matter what, but there's still impact. I personally don't care if they go over $237 million, but I doubt they'd be willing to do that. I'd think that would be a cap for them - I also could be wrong about that. If this move is the move they make instead of doing what they have to do to finalize a deal with JDM I'll be pretty ticked and I'll get annoyed the first and millionth time I hear we don't need JDM - we have Nunez. But that's a different topic. Looking at this move in a vacuum, I like it. It's hard not to. The fact of the matter is we don't know how "fixed" Pedroia will be. It's possible he's going to really need a good amount of time off, even when he comes back. Nunez ensures that Pedroia will be kept as fresh as possible while giving the Red Sox a slightly above hitter in his place - and when you consider typical replacement level, Nunez is a huge upgrade. And he also does protect the Sox at 3b. I can't really imagine him being the primary backup SS if Marrero and Holt wound up getting released due to a roster crunch. But I guess if there were a 15 day DL for Bogaerts, Hernandez would get the callup to be the starting SS if Holt and Marrero weren't around? There are question marks on Holt and Hernandez at this point and we know Marrero can't hit and will be on the roster to start the season but is the most likely casualty once Pedroia comes back. With a healthy Pedroia and if the Sox still got JDM the bench would be Swihart, Leon (I'd think), Nunez, and either Moreland or Ramirez. Without JDM perhaps Brentz would get that final spot? I'm curious what the deal will be for. For the Sox' sake I hope it's $5 million or less for this year. They're at 204 million now. Adding $5 million brings you to 209 and Martinez would cost somewhere between 22 to 25 million/year if they can sign him bringing the payroll to between $231 to $234 million leaving either very little or just enough wiggle room for July 31st acquisitions. It would rule out a lefty reliever of significance although I don't think the Sox are likely to get Watson anyways, and I'm fine if they'd don't. I guess the Sox could cut/trade Leon or more likely Holt and save some money?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Feb 15, 2018 20:06:18 GMT -5
FWIW:
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2018 20:06:39 GMT -5
Nunez is better than Hanley at least and he'll fill in until Pedrioa is back. That's not necessarily true. Hanley played with one shoulder last year. He got his shoulder fixed. I'd be on him to replicate his 2016 season more than I'd bet on Nunez to replicate his final two months of his 2017 season. A healthy Hanley is a much better offensive player than Nunez, and it's not like Nunez is a gold glover.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 15, 2018 20:07:47 GMT -5
Four million? Can't afford not to sign him at that price.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2018 20:08:33 GMT -5
If that's true I'm totally on-board. $4 million to Nunez doesn't preclude them from giving JDM his money and staying under $237 with a little wiggle room to pick up a piece for July 31st. It precludes them from getting a lefty for the pen (Watson) now, but that's fine - they can get a decent lefty if need be on July 31st for the wiggle room money that have. This is a really good move for the Sox if that report is correct.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 15, 2018 20:33:24 GMT -5
Great deal, there really would be no excuse not signing him for that much.
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Post by cheers on Feb 15, 2018 20:46:36 GMT -5
Four million? Can't afford not to sign him at that price. Total steal, as long as his knees are slightly better than mine.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 15, 2018 20:49:51 GMT -5
Nunez is better than Hanley at least and he'll fill in until Pedrioa is back. That's not necessarily true. Hanley played with one shoulder last year. He got his shoulder fixed. I'd be on him to replicate his 2016 season more than I'd bet on Nunez to replicate his final two months of his 2017 season. A healthy Hanley is a much better offensive player than Nunez, and it's not like Nunez is a gold glover. Hanley has been awful at the plate 2 out of the last 3 years Champs, and Nunez has outproduced Hanley in all but one season during this time.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2018 20:57:37 GMT -5
That's not necessarily true. Hanley played with one shoulder last year. He got his shoulder fixed. I'd be on him to replicate his 2016 season more than I'd bet on Nunez to replicate his final two months of his 2017 season. A healthy Hanley is a much better offensive player than Nunez, and it's not like Nunez is a gold glover. Hanley has been awful at the plate 2 out of the last 3 years Champs, and Nunez has outproduced Hanley in all but one season during this time. Nunez barely played in 2015 so I don't know how much stock you put in it. Hanley was healthy in 2016 and outproduced Nunez, and in 2017 Hanley wasn't healthy and Nunez outproduced him. I have to ask - too lazy to look it up, but isn't Hanley, even in his bad years, gets on base just as much as Nunez and has the same or better slugging average? Nunez with a bad knee isn't much of an offensive asset himself. Hopefully his knee is alright. If they're both healthy I'll take Hanley on offense.
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Post by Coreno on Feb 15, 2018 21:20:30 GMT -5
Yeah, after seeing him collapse coming out of the box in the playoffs, I'm pretty surprised to hear he never got surgery on his knee. It'll be interesting to see how that rehab has gone, and where he is in terms of health.
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Post by jmei on Feb 15, 2018 21:28:16 GMT -5
That's not necessarily true. Hanley played with one shoulder last year. He got his shoulder fixed. I'd be on him to replicate his 2016 season more than I'd bet on Nunez to replicate his final two months of his 2017 season. A healthy Hanley is a much better offensive player than Nunez, and it's not like Nunez is a gold glover. Hanley has been awful at the plate 2 out of the last 3 years Champs, and Nunez has outproduced Hanley in all but one season during this time. Last three years: Ramirez: 106 wRC+ Nunez: 106 wRC+ 2018 Steamer projection: Ramirez: 112 wRC+ Nunez: 100 wRC+
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Post by jmei on Feb 15, 2018 21:33:31 GMT -5
I personally don't care if they go over $237 million, but I doubt they'd be willing to do that. I'd think that would be a cap for them - I also could be wrong about that. I'm not sure why you think $237M is a hard cap. The major penalty for crossing that threshold is moving their first round pick down 10 spots, which is certainly something, but not really prohibitive. Think of it like signing a free agent with a draft penalty attached. There are also increased taxes on the overage amount, but they wouldn't be over that threshold by much.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 15, 2018 21:47:16 GMT -5
Hanley has been awful at the plate 2 out of the last 3 years Champs, and Nunez has outproduced Hanley in all but one season during this time. Last three years: Ramirez: 106 wRC+ Nunez: 106 wRC+ 2018 Steamer projection: Ramirez: 112 wRC+ Nunez: 100 wRC+ I'm not even sure Hanley will receive a full season of at bats to live up to those projections if the Sox sign Martinez though. I would take that from Hanley part time if that was the case. Edit- Add in the value of Nunez's baserunning and he's still the guy I take over Hanley at the moment if Pedrioa is healthy. Most of Hanley's production came in that bloated 2016 season too.
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Post by Coreno on Feb 15, 2018 22:35:15 GMT -5
Last three years: Ramirez: 106 wRC+ Nunez: 106 wRC+ 2018 Steamer projection: Ramirez: 112 wRC+ Nunez: 100 wRC+ I'm not even sure Hanley will receive a full season of at bats to live up to those projections if the Sox sign Martinez though. I would take that from Hanley part time if that was the case. Edit- Add in the value of Nunez's baserunning and he's still the guy I take over Hanley at the moment if Pedrioa is healthy. Most of Hanley's production came in that bloated healthy 2016 season too. FTFY
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Post by telson13 on Feb 15, 2018 22:48:34 GMT -5
I love this for three major reasons: 1) Yeah, Nunez isn’t a great hitter by any stretch and his production was certainly inflated, but I do think it was suppressed in PacBell and he’s got a good approach for Fenway, so I think Steamer’s a little light on him. 2) it’s only $4M, with an option, which is a good deal for the added depth and insurance around the INF. It means that they may trade Holt, yes, but he might have a bit of a market and thus they could get someone of some value back. I will always contend that championship clubs are those with outstanding depth, such that they can get above-replacement production from guys who fill in. His contract also makes him very tradeable at the deadline if Pedroia comes back well and/or Hernandez breaks out. 3) It reduces the odds of Hanley’s option vesting, by giving them a RH option at DH/1b should they go with the “hot hand.” And if Hanley plays well enough to vest his option, well, he’s probably helping the team out quite a bit and creating an offseason market for himself, anyway.
The only real downside is maybe they don’t find out as quickly what Marco is capable of, but I’m ok with that.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 15, 2018 22:54:34 GMT -5
I've gotta ask - do we know for sure it's 4 million? Isn't that what Nilson Pepen reported? Did anybody else report that figure?
Pepen also reported that JDM talks with the Sox are heating up while Heyman is claiming the opposite - that the staredown continues and a bunch of other stuff extolling how much JDM loved Arizona, recommended his friend Alex Avila to go play for Arizona, his hitting coach.....blah, blah, blah - which makes it sound like either the Red Sox pay up or he's definitely going back to Arizona.
The point being how do we know Pepen is accurate in his reporting here? Nobody else is reporting any traction between the Red Sox and JDM. I hope $4 million is the right figure for Nunez.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 16, 2018 3:01:53 GMT -5
I've gotta ask - do we know for sure it's 4 million? Isn't that what Nilson Pepen reported? Did anybody else report that figure? Pepen also reported that JDM talks with the Sox are heating up while Heyman is claiming the opposite - that the staredown continues and a bunch of other stuff extolling how much JDM loved Arizona, recommended his friend Alex Avila to go play for Arizona, his hitting coach.....blah, blah, blah - which makes it sound like either the Red Sox pay up or he's definitely going back to Arizona. The point being how do we know Pepen is accurate in his reporting here? Nobody else is reporting any traction between the Red Sox and JDM. I hope $4 million is the right figure for Nunez. IMO Pepen is hearing from Latino sources, maybe even Nunez' relatives, while Heyman is hearing from Boras, as usual. $4M seems low after $6M in 2017, and with the NYFY also interested in bringing him back. Perhaps there are incentives to bring it closer to 6M or 7M. Either way, there is still room for JDM or another slugger. I like a running offense led by Nunez, Mookie and Beni, and a big bat offense led by JDM, Devers and Hanley. I also like having 20+ HR potential from all 9 positions, and 4-5 guys each working to produce 20HR/20SB seasons, per Cora. This could be an exciting team. I very much like adding Nunez and MM as veteran leaders for the still young core.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Feb 16, 2018 4:54:42 GMT -5
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Post by benfromma on Feb 16, 2018 5:58:32 GMT -5
If the 4 million salary is correct one the best moves the Red Sox could have made. But everybody is over valuing the player he is good hitter with a little pop (most HRs season 16) and a very average fielder. When we got him last year he was hot and provided a great spark for our team and I am sure sometime during next could do the same. He does not provide the power bat we need in our lineup what he does provide is great insurance for injuries. It was a very good depth move
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 16, 2018 7:34:19 GMT -5
But why do you like Nunez? His numbers for Boston last year were way better than his typical results. Do you think he plays better just for the Sox or is it more likely he returns to his career norms? He's not a great defensive player either. I mean if you can get him for a steal, sure. But I'm fine with Holt, Hernandez, Lin, Swihart. One of those guys will be fine. OK. So they got him for a steal. I'm more than ok with Nunez at $4 million.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 16, 2018 8:06:07 GMT -5
What is almost comical about this signing is that he was worth far more than $4 million to the Red Sox last season in 38 games. Fangraphs had his worth at $9.2 million for the Red Sox last year. If he didn't have the knee issue and this was a normal year for free agency, I expected about a 3/$30 million deal.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 16, 2018 8:07:30 GMT -5
I just want to be clear. Nunez was not a JDM replacement for me. I wanted him simply as a super utility guy independently of JDM. If this team doesn’t end up with JD then the offense will be weak; just a little less so. Even with JDM, I question how good it will actually be.
Also, Hanley over all last year had a bad year while being injured BUT who hit good pitching in the playoffs AGAIN? Right that was Hanley. The guy can still hit when he’s right (mentally and physically) and it seems like he gets himself motivated in the playoffs. Like him or not as of today he’s a key to this team come playoff time. All that can change but if it were October besides Mookie Betts who would you want at the plate before Hanley?
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