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2018-19 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by mattpicard on Jan 17, 2019 13:59:56 GMT -5
Chapman Betances Ottavino Green vs. Barnes Brasier Hembree Thornburg Call it a wash? Let's even it out some more. Add Britton to the Yankees side and add Workman or even Colton Brewer to the Red Sox side. Yikes. Their bullpen is so stacked I completely forgot they re-signed Britton.
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Post by PedroKsBambino on Jan 17, 2019 14:04:37 GMT -5
I don't know how DDo can go into the season with this bullpen as constructed right now. Ottavino for $9 mill per yr is a steal. Just above what Kelly got. Sox have lowest % spent on the bullpen in the majors, meanwhile the Yanks have the most dominant bullpen in baseball. Starters only need to pitch 5 innings and is a wrap. Sucks to see him sign so cheap and then worse when it's the Yanks
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 17, 2019 14:05:17 GMT -5
Chapman Betances Ottavino Green vs. Barnes Brasier Hembree Thornburg Call it a wash? Let's even it out some more. Add Britton to the Yankees side and add Workman or even Colton Brewer to the Red Sox side. Counterpoint: signing Ottavino on the cheap makes overpaying Britton to be the team's fifth-best reliever even more unnecessarily dumb. But yes, the Red Sox bullpen is worrisome.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 17, 2019 14:10:59 GMT -5
Let's even it out some more. Add Britton to the Yankees side and add Workman or even Colton Brewer to the Red Sox side. Counterpoint: signing Ottavino on the cheap makes overpaying Britton to be the team's fifth-best reliever even more unnecessarily dumb. But yes, the Red Sox bullpen is worrisome. It's also possible when all is said and done that Britton won't be their fifth best reliever. He should be further removed from his injury. He might just wind up being their 2nd or 3rd best reliever depending upon the health of Chapman. Either way that's one very stacked Yankees bullpen. Meanwhile on the Sox' side, their starters need to take it easy so we'll be seeing increased bullpen usage. It might be tough early on with Barnes, Brasier, mystery bargain basement reliever, Hembree, Johnson, Velazquez, Poyner/AAA shuttle. That's a big bullpen difference unfortunately.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 17, 2019 14:19:09 GMT -5
Meanwhile on the Sox' side, their starters need to take it easy so we'll be seeing increased bullpen usage. It might be tough early on with Barnes, Brasier, mystery bargain basement reliever, Hembree, Johnson, Velazquez, Poyner/AAA shuttle. I'm actually not worried about that, because the Red Sox have two decent swingmen to go when the starters go short, and Cora was adept at using them. Boone is a bit less rigid than Girardi was in reliever usage, so I think adding more quality innings from back to front helps the Yankees more now than it did in 2016, but I'm still confident in the first six innings or so being to the Red Sox advantage. But the late innings of close games? The Red Sox basically had four relievers to use in those situations last year. One is gone, one is an unsigned free agent, and one has basically a three-month track record.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 17, 2019 14:35:31 GMT -5
Meanwhile on the Sox' side, their starters need to take it easy so we'll be seeing increased bullpen usage. It might be tough early on with Barnes, Brasier, mystery bargain basement reliever, Hembree, Johnson, Velazquez, Poyner/AAA shuttle. I'm actually not worried about that, because the Red Sox have two decent swingmen to go when the starters go short, and Cora was adept at using them. Boone is a bit less rigid than Girardi was in reliever usage, so I think adding more quality innings from back to front helps the Yankees more now than it did in 2016, but I'm still confident in the first six innings or so being to the Red Sox advantage. But the late innings of close games? The Red Sox basically had four relievers to use in those situations last year. One is gone, one is an unsigned free agent, and one has basically a three-month track record. Actually 3 swingmen perhaps?. I don't know why, but I keep omitting Steven Wright. Assuming that when the Sox need a 6th starter/replacement starter Brian Johnson gets the first call, that Wright will be primarily a reliever and will get constant work. I thought that he was in a situation where he might not be able to be a starter going forward? I'm not sure where I thought I read that or heard that, but I'm under the impression that Wright will be a reliever, so that when it's high leverage in the 7th, 8th, and 9th innings we can expect to see Barnes, Brasier, mystery reliever, and Wright. So maybe Wright isn't a swingman who bounces between starts and relief like Johnson, Velazquez, and maybe down the road Shawaryn?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 17, 2019 15:12:19 GMT -5
Oh so I guess the Yankees did sign both Britton and Ottavino after all.
Well that absolutely stinks. Now it's down to just Kimbrel, who has interest from a couple of other teams.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 17, 2019 15:59:11 GMT -5
Oh so I guess the Yankees did sign both Britton and Ottavino after all. Well that absolutely stinks. Now it's down to just Kimbrel, who has interest from a couple of other teams. Right so to recap they replaced Robertson with Ottavino
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 17, 2019 16:05:34 GMT -5
The problem with this signing isn’t that it helps the Yankees, it’s that it was incredibly reasonable money for a player the Res Sox really need. This is pretty much a lateral move for the Yankees from last years team. The improvement would be Britton improving on himself.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 17, 2019 16:07:53 GMT -5
Oh so I guess the Yankees did sign both Britton and Ottavino after all. Well that absolutely stinks. Now it's down to just Kimbrel, who has interest from a couple of other teams. Right so to recap they replaced Robertson with Ottavino And a full season of Zach Britton instead of a half a season, which is also big.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 17, 2019 17:10:06 GMT -5
This is an interesting graph:
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 17, 2019 17:17:58 GMT -5
Basically its the same gameplan Cashman employed last season. Yawn!
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 17, 2019 17:44:51 GMT -5
Basically its the same gameplan Cashman employed last season. Yawn! Yeah. I agree. What they gonna spend 45-50 million on the most unpredictable position on the field ? For what 8-10 WAR? And I am not sold on the Colorado player like a lot are. One exceptional year at 33 years old ? The Yanks should be signing Machado this year, it would be the move that would actually make me tremble.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 17, 2019 18:36:25 GMT -5
I don't think they NEED to sign Kimbrel at this point - I'm ok with Barnes in the ninth, actually, and Brasier as an option for the eighth. But if they go that route, would feel a lot more comfortable with a couple guys from the Cody Allen, Justin Wilson, etc. tier in that instance to supplement their minimal depth.
As those who've listened to our podcast with Alex know, the org is (appropriately, imo) NOT assuming that any of the RP in the minors will be able to step into high leverage roles this year, in case anyone might be thinking that at this point.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 17, 2019 19:11:00 GMT -5
If Barnes is the closer and he sucks as the closer are people going to just assume it’s normal reliever variance from year to year? Just want to get the takes out of the way ahead of time.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Jan 17, 2019 23:13:46 GMT -5
Per MLB Trade Rumors, it looks like Cody Allen is headed to the Angels. So, another relief option off the board. Link
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Post by kenster on Jan 18, 2019 0:09:52 GMT -5
Per MLB Trade Rumors, it looks like Cody Allen is headed to the Angels. So, another relief option off the board. LinkWho cares, Bannister is going to fix Erasmo Ramirez and Zach Putnam. We are all set.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jan 18, 2019 0:52:26 GMT -5
This is an interesting graph: Does this mean that batters are adapting to the shift and that we don't need additional rules that obstruct the natural progression of the game? But but but but what about Joey Gallo? What will we do if Joey Gallo is marginalized?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jan 18, 2019 9:32:57 GMT -5
One of the primary tenets of Moneyball is that closers are overvalued.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 18, 2019 9:45:06 GMT -5
One of the primary tenets of Moneyball is that closers are overvalued. Proven closers, as having some innate ability to close, yes. Not good relievers, though. That's why, in Moneyball, Beane valued Keith Foulke so highly - someone Beane (correctly) saw as an elite reliever who wasn't getting high-end money because he didn't have the Proven Closer trademark on his name. The difference between valuing past saves and valuing relievers isn't just semantics.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 19, 2019 7:47:29 GMT -5
Anyone want to guess the "mystery team" for Manny Machado? I think it might be the Braves.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 19, 2019 7:48:36 GMT -5
Anyone want to guess the "mystery team" for Manny Machado? I think it might be the Braves. Seems like Harper is the better fit for their roster, and SI covers aside, I can't really see why he wouldn't be cheaper as well.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 19, 2019 8:06:16 GMT -5
One of the primary tenets of Moneyball is that closers are overvalued. Proven closers, as having some innate ability to close, yes. Not good relievers, though. That's why, in Moneyball, Beane valued Keith Foulke so highly - someone Beane (correctly) saw as an elite reliever who wasn't getting high-end money because he didn't have the Proven Closer trademark on his name. The difference between valuing past saves and valuing relievers isn't just semantics.The other big criticism from that era was that you diminish the value of your best reliever by only using him in save situations. The Yankees have solved that problem not by abandoning the closer roll, but with a "why not make the whole plane out of closers?" strategy.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jan 19, 2019 8:15:28 GMT -5
Some in the hanger too....
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 19, 2019 8:18:30 GMT -5
Anyone want to guess the "mystery team" for Manny Machado? I think it might be the Braves. Honestly, at the price that’s been reported, it should be any number of teams including the Red Sox.
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