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2018-19 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 19, 2019 19:17:25 GMT -5
I love the narrative that he doesn’t care about winning because he went to the Padres... the Royals have been to more WS the last 10 years than the Yankees, White Sox and Phillies combined.... the Padres have a pretty good front office and a ton of young talent. Who’s to say they don’t make a couple runs in the next 5 years? If they don’t, he gets to opt out as a still pretty young guy.
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Post by bluechip on Feb 19, 2019 19:36:24 GMT -5
I love the narrative that he doesn’t care about winning because he went to the Padres... the Royals have been to more WS the last 10 years than the Yankees, White Sox and Phillies combined.... the Padres have a pretty good front office and a ton of young talent. Who’s to say they don’t make a couple runs in the next 5 years? If they don’t, he gets to opt out as a still pretty young guy. This. It would be like saying someone who went to the Astros in 2014 didn’t care about winning. Plus the San Diego is far pleasanter than Houston in June.
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Post by libertine on Feb 19, 2019 23:08:17 GMT -5
My antipathy for the player aside...I like this deal. I think it is good for the game. The more teams that are competitive the more exciting the game is...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 19, 2019 23:20:31 GMT -5
I love the narrative that he doesn’t care about winning because he went to the Padres... the Royals have been to more WS the last 10 years than the Yankees, White Sox and Phillies combined.... the Padres have a pretty good front office and a ton of young talent. Who’s to say they don’t make a couple runs in the next 5 years? If they don’t, he gets to opt out as a still pretty young guy. This. It would be like saying someone who went to the Astros in 2014 didn’t care about winning. Plus the San Diego is far pleasanter than Houston in June. San Diego is on the upswing. Machado, along with Hosmer and Myers give the Padres 3 established solid players you can plug into the middle of the order. Then add in great young talent like Tatis Jr, Urias, and Mejias and some of their young OF talent (maybe Margot improves), a young and coming starter like a Logan Allen, who's not even their best starting pitching prospect, plus I wouldn't be surprised if it was San Diego who went out and brought Craig Kimbrel back to the Padres - this team could give the Dodgers in the NL West a run for their money down the road.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 20, 2019 0:00:50 GMT -5
I love the narrative that he doesn’t care about winning because he went to the Padres... the Royals have been to more WS the last 10 years than the Yankees, White Sox and Phillies combined.... the Padres have a pretty good front office and a ton of young talent. Who’s to say they don’t make a couple runs in the next 5 years? If they don’t, he gets to opt out as a still pretty young guy. Agreed. SD has SOOOO many high-end prospects right now. They could graduate 4-5 and still have the minor league capital to pull off two deals for deadline/offseason All-Star vets with 2-3 years of control. This is a great move for them with Tatis Jr coming and their stable of young pitchers.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 20, 2019 0:03:50 GMT -5
I love the narrative that he doesn’t care about winning because he went to the Padres... the Royals have been to more WS the last 10 years than the Yankees, White Sox and Phillies combined.... the Padres have a pretty good front office and a ton of young talent. Who’s to say they don’t make a couple runs in the next 5 years? If they don’t, he gets to opt out as a still pretty young guy. This. It would be like saying someone who went to the Astros in 2014 didn’t care about winning. Plus the San Diego is far pleasanter than Houston in June. Except for the early June gloom, when the offshore breeze makes it cloudy and cool. But late June through September? I’ll take sunny, dry, and 82 over 96 with 96% relative humidity any day.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 20, 2019 4:51:05 GMT -5
I love the narrative that he doesn’t care about winning because he went to the Padres... the Royals have been to more WS the last 10 years than the Yankees, White Sox and Phillies combined.... the Padres have a pretty good front office and a ton of young talent. Who’s to say they don’t make a couple runs in the next 5 years? If they don’t, he gets to opt out as a still pretty young guy. Agreed. SD has SOOOO many high-end prospects right now. They could graduate 4-5 and still have the minor league capital to pull off two deals for deadline/offseason All-Star vets with 2-3 years of control. This is a great move for them with Tatis Jr coming and their stable of young pitchers. The Padres arguably have 12 of the top 125 prospects in the game right now. I agree, they are coming and are coming soon. I don't think this will be a ridiculous contract to move if you're San Diego too. Machado only has a limited no trade clause in this deal. The Padres can easily get rid of this contract if they feel the need to cut back payroll.
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Post by p23w on Feb 20, 2019 8:57:28 GMT -5
Machado is in the NL..= good. Machado is not a NYY...= good. The Padres are (at best) a .500 team in 2019....(yawn). 2020 and beyond should be interesting.... unless the Dodgers view the Machado signing as a move to defcon 4... and sign Harper, which keeps Bryce in the NL which is a good thing. It's all good for the Red Sox IMO.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 20, 2019 9:34:19 GMT -5
Agreed. SD has SOOOO many high-end prospects right now. They could graduate 4-5 and still have the minor league capital to pull off two deals for deadline/offseason All-Star vets with 2-3 years of control. This is a great move for them with Tatis Jr coming and their stable of young pitchers. The Padres arguably have 12 of the top 125 prospects in the game right now. I agree, they are coming and are coming soon. I don't think this will be a ridiculous contract to move if you're San Diego too. Machado only has a limited no trade clause in this deal. The Padres can easily get rid of this contract if they feel the need to cut back payroll. This. Anyone who makes the "I guess he doesn't care about winning" comment has no idea what's going on in baseball. 1) The Padres, if they use their minor league assets right (i.e., the way the Sox have), could be dangerous in a couple years. Their system is loaded. For those uninitiated, they had 8 consensus top 100 guys (on all five of BA, ESPN, FG, MLB, BP), and 6 more guys who were ranked on at least one list (note that FG ranked out to like 131 or something, which accounts for three of those, but still...). The right combination of trades and successful promotions makes them contenders—especially in the NL West—very quickly. They also have tradeable MLB depth - for example, their outfield is now pretty crowded, and the above prospect talk doesn't include guys like Margot, Renfroe, Cordero, and Reyes, which is probably one guy too many for the outfield next to Myers. 2) The only other serious suitor from what I've seen was the White Sox. And, by the way, they reportedly offered him more money from an AAV perspective: Rosenthal reported they offered 8/$250M with incentives and options that could have driven the value to $350 million. Granted, I'm not sure what taxes do or don't do to that comparatively, and we don't know what he values the 5th year opt-in at, but that's a team in a similar place competitively with a very good farm.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 20, 2019 9:47:13 GMT -5
Well the Padres certainly now have a great mentor for all those prospects. He'll be sure to show them all how to not hustle and step on the first basemen's ankles.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 20, 2019 9:55:46 GMT -5
Well the Padres certainly now have a great mentor for all those prospects. He'll be sure to show them all how to not hustle and step on the first basemen's ankles. Yo. It's okay to just not like the dude. You don't need to... whatever it is you're trying to do in this thread. This. It would be like saying someone who went to the Astros in 2014 didn’t care about winning. Plus the San Diego is far pleasanter than Houston in June. Except for the early June gloom, when the offshore breeze makes it cloudy and cool. It was nine degrees when I stepped outside this morning. I really feel for San Diegans during those three weeks where the weather shifts from "paradise" to "slightly cloudier paradise, you should bring a jacket."
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 20, 2019 14:31:25 GMT -5
Well the Padres certainly now have a great mentor for all those prospects. He'll be sure to show them all how to not hustle and step on the first basemen's ankles. Yo. It's okay to just not like the dude. You don't need to... whatever it is you're trying to do in this thread. Except for the early June gloom, when the offshore breeze makes it cloudy and cool. It was nine degrees when I stepped outside this morning. I really feel for San Diegans during those three weeks where the weather shifts from "paradise" to "slightly cloudier paradise, you should bring a jacket." Actually, the choices are long or short sleeve, shorts or long pants, socks or no socks or flip flops, jacket or sweater (light or heavy). San Diego, like most soCal coastal towns, have thousands of permanent marina slips filled with boats, which are used pretty much year round. Plus kayaks, etc. So most dress in layers like short sleeved shirt with jacket. In summer, SD has been called the “Air Conditioned City” for decades. Regarding JimEds point about mentoring the kids, Xander, JBJ, Mookie et al had Pedey and Big Papi teaching the right way to play the game, with the end result being long term championship team play. Counting on a petulant, self-serving, anti-hustle Machado for that kind of positive leadership is a stretch.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 20, 2019 15:08:40 GMT -5
Yo. It's okay to just not like the dude. You don't need to... whatever it is you're trying to do in this thread. It was nine degrees when I stepped outside this morning. I really feel for San Diegans during those three weeks where the weather shifts from "paradise" to "slightly cloudier paradise, you should bring a jacket." Actually, the choices are long or short sleeve, shorts or long pants, socks or no socks or flip flops, jacket or sweater (light or heavy). San Diego, like most soCal coastal towns, have thousands of permanent marina slips filled with boats, which are used pretty much year round. Plus kayaks, etc. So most dress in layers like short sleeved shirt with jacket. In summer, SD has been called the “Air Conditioned City” for decades. Regarding JimEds point about mentoring the kids, Xander, JBJ, Mookie et al had Pedey and Big Papi teaching the right way to play the game, with the end result being long term championship team play. Counting on a petulant, self-serving, anti-hustle Machado for that kind of positive leadership is a stretch. Yea they were really being touted as champions before Cora got there.... oh wait
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 20, 2019 18:19:16 GMT -5
Yo. It's okay to just not like the dude. You don't need to... whatever it is you're trying to do in this thread. It was nine degrees when I stepped outside this morning. I really feel for San Diegans during those three weeks where the weather shifts from "paradise" to "slightly cloudier paradise, you should bring a jacket." Actually, the choices are long or short sleeve, shorts or long pants, socks or no socks or flip flops, jacket or sweater (light or heavy). San Diego, like most soCal coastal towns, have thousands of permanent marina slips filled with boats, which are used pretty much year round. Plus kayaks, etc. So most dress in layers like short sleeved shirt with jacket. In summer, SD has been called the “Air Conditioned City” for decades. Regarding JimEds point about mentoring the kids, Xander, JBJ, Mookie et al had Pedey and Big Papi teaching the right way to play the game, with the end result being long term championship team play. Counting on a petulant, self-serving, anti-hustle Machado for that kind of positive leadership is a stretch. Hosmer is still on the Padres and he's all about hustle and grit and winning. Manny is there to put up numbers, not to be a leader. That's one of the reasons why they signed Hosmer in the first place. Hosmer will be the leader of the locker room, too much is being made of Manny Machado being a leader is wrong in the first place.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2019 18:30:03 GMT -5
Actually, the choices are long or short sleeve, shorts or long pants, socks or no socks or flip flops, jacket or sweater (light or heavy). San Diego, like most soCal coastal towns, have thousands of permanent marina slips filled with boats, which are used pretty much year round. Plus kayaks, etc. So most dress in layers like short sleeved shirt with jacket. In summer, SD has been called the “Air Conditioned City” for decades. Regarding JimEds point about mentoring the kids, Xander, JBJ, Mookie et al had Pedey and Big Papi teaching the right way to play the game, with the end result being long term championship team play. Counting on a petulant, self-serving, anti-hustle Machado for that kind of positive leadership is a stretch. Hosmer is still on the Padres and he's all about hustle and grit and winning. Manny is there to put up numbers, not to be a leader. That's one of the reasons why they signed Hosmer in the first place. Hosmer will be the leader of the locker room, too much is being made of Manny Machado being a leader is wrong in the first place. It's not quite the same, but when the Sox made their big signing of another Manny, Manny Ramirez, I don't think his not being a leader was a big deal. They just wanted his production. I'm guessing it's the same thing in San Diego, like you said. I get that the Sox had a veteran club when Manny Ramirez joined and Machado is joining an up and coming club, but like you said, the Padres are paying $144 million or whatever it is for Hosmer's leadership. I think the Pads would be happy if Machado simply went out and raked for 10 years.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 20, 2019 18:50:59 GMT -5
Hosmer is still on the Padres and he's all about hustle and grit and winning. Manny is there to put up numbers, not to be a leader. That's one of the reasons why they signed Hosmer in the first place. Hosmer will be the leader of the locker room, too much is being made of Manny Machado being a leader is wrong in the first place. It's not quite the same, but when the Sox made their big signing of another Manny, Manny Ramirez, I don't think his not being a leader was a big deal. They just wanted his production. I'm guessing it's the same thing in San Diego, like you said. I get that the Sox had a veteran club when Manny Ramirez joined and Machado is joining an up and coming club, but like you said, the Padres are paying $144 million or whatever it is for Hosmer's leadership. I think the Pads would be happy if Machado simply went out and raked for 10 years. Yeah I mean it's completely contradictory for a Sox fan to call out Manny Machado for being a dirty player and criticizing his precense on a young team when you had Manny Ramirez flopping around in the outfield on the 2007 team. The 2007 team had rookies like Ellsbury, Lester, Pedrioa. Manny Ramirez quit on the 2008 team. I would take a dirty player over someone like that anyday. You arguably have a better chance to win in 2008 with a full season of Manny Ramirez instead of 2008 Jason Bay, even though Jason Bay was a good player too. Manny was just a better player, he was only there for the numbers.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2019 18:58:11 GMT -5
It's not quite the same, but when the Sox made their big signing of another Manny, Manny Ramirez, I don't think his not being a leader was a big deal. They just wanted his production. I'm guessing it's the same thing in San Diego, like you said. I get that the Sox had a veteran club when Manny Ramirez joined and Machado is joining an up and coming club, but like you said, the Padres are paying $144 million or whatever it is for Hosmer's leadership. I think the Pads would be happy if Machado simply went out and raked for 10 years. Yeah I mean it's completely contradictory for a Sox fan to call out Manny Machado for being a dirty player and criticizing his precense on a young team when you had Manny Ramirez flopping around in the outfield on the 2007 team. The 2007 team had rookies like Ellsbury, Lester, Pedrioa. Manny Ramirez quit on the 2008 team. I would take a dirty player over someone like that anyday. You arguably have a better chance to win in 2008 with a full season of Manny Ramirez instead of 2008 Jason Bay, even though Jason Bay was a good player too. Manny was just a better player, he was only there for the numbers. The venom here regarding Machado isn't his lackadaisical approach as much as it is that he potentially wrecked Pedroia's career and has made a habit of stepping on firstbasemen. Manny Ramirez didn't do that. He was just lackadaisical at times until 2008 when he got into altercations with Youkilis and shoved Jack McCormick.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 20, 2019 19:12:56 GMT -5
Yeah I mean it's completely contradictory for a Sox fan to call out Manny Machado for being a dirty player and criticizing his precense on a young team when you had Manny Ramirez flopping around in the outfield on the 2007 team. The 2007 team had rookies like Ellsbury, Lester, Pedrioa. Manny Ramirez quit on the 2008 team. I would take a dirty player over someone like that anyday. You arguably have a better chance to win in 2008 with a full season of Manny Ramirez instead of 2008 Jason Bay, even though Jason Bay was a good player too. Manny was just a better player, he was only there for the numbers. The venom here regarding Machado isn't his lackadaisical approach as much as it is that he potentially wrecked Pedroia's career and has made a habit of stepping on firstbasemen. Manny Ramirez didn't do that. He was just lackadaisical at times until 2008 when he got into altercations with Youkilis and shoved Jack McCormick. Yeap Manny quiting on the 2008 team is way worse than trying to be dirty or lazy Manny Machado imo. Manny pushed McCormick, fought with Youk in front of the camera, made stupid signs in front of the NESN camera because he wanted out because of a stupid contract despute. He wanted more money when he was under contract and the Sox were saying they were going to pick up Manny's 2009 option year. Manny didn't like that and was pulling this stuff all of 2008. Manny Ramirez was also lazy or made nonsense lazy plays throughout the whole time he was here.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2019 21:15:40 GMT -5
The venom here regarding Machado isn't his lackadaisical approach as much as it is that he potentially wrecked Pedroia's career and has made a habit of stepping on firstbasemen. Manny Ramirez didn't do that. He was just lackadaisical at times until 2008 when he got into altercations with Youkilis and shoved Jack McCormick. Yeap Manny quiting on the 2008 team is way worse than trying to be dirty or lazy Manny Machado imo. Manny pushed McCormick, fought with Youk in front of the camera, made stupid signs in front of the NESN camera because he wanted out because of a stupid contract despute. He wanted more money when he was under contract and the Sox were saying they were going to pick up Manny's 2009 option year. Manny didn't like that and was pulling this stuff all of 2008. Manny Ramirez was also lazy or made nonsense lazy plays throughout the whole time he was here. Yet despite all that Manny is revered and loved in Boston and talked about fondly. Hell I'm guilty when it comes to that. I enjoyed watching him hit and had laughs at some of his comical defense (the climb the wall, make the catch, high five a fan and throw to first to get the DP was hillarious as was his catch where he robbed Miguel Cairo of a HR and then waited for Cairo to go all the way around the bases before showing him the ball and doing his double finger point salute). But yeah, Manny in 2008 was atrocious. Boras was in his ear about getting a huge contract and Manny was all about his contract that year and what he did was disgusting. He definitely put himself above the team. And the PEDs happening multiple times thereafter....the only good thing I can get is that maybe Manny has now found religion and has become a better person. He apologized for his actions in Boston and obviously to his wife who I think he slapped or something disgusting like that. Maybe the PEDs were making him crazier than his normal crazy. Maybe, hopefully, he has become a better person. It's funny, but while I got a kick out of some of his antics, and loved him up at the plate, I never really considered Manny to be a favorite. He was more like a mercenary. Ortiz became a beloved favorite of mine and Pedro of course. I just never had Manny in that category.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Feb 20, 2019 21:27:23 GMT -5
The venom here regarding Machado isn't his lackadaisical approach as much as it is that he potentially wrecked Pedroia's career and has made a habit of stepping on firstbasemen. Manny Ramirez didn't do that. He was just lackadaisical at times until 2008 when he got into altercations with Youkilis and shoved Jack McCormick. Yeap Manny quiting on the 2008 team is way worse than trying to be dirty or lazy Manny Machado imo. Manny pushed McCormick, fought with Youk in front of the camera, made stupid signs in front of the NESN camera because he wanted out because of a stupid contract despute. He wanted more money when he was under contract and the Sox were saying they were going to pick up Manny's 2009 option year. Manny didn't like that and was pulling this stuff all of 2008. Manny Ramirez was also lazy or made nonsense lazy plays throughout the whole time he was here. Give me a lazy primadonna every day of the week over someone who actively endangers guys' careers.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 20, 2019 22:22:51 GMT -5
But yeah, Manny in 2008 was atrocious. Boras was in his ear about getting a huge contract and Manny was all about his contract that year and what he did was disgusting. He definitely put himself above the team. Your theory is that Manny gave up in 2008 and assaulted the travel manager... because his agent told him that sort of thing will help him get a huge contract? Okay.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 20, 2019 22:27:05 GMT -5
Well the Padres certainly now have a great mentor for all those prospects. He'll be sure to show them all how to not hustle and step on the first basemen's ankles. Yo. It's okay to just not like the dude. You don't need to... whatever it is you're trying to do in this thread. Except for the early June gloom, when the offshore breeze makes it cloudy and cool. It was nine degrees when I stepped outside this morning. I really feel for San Diegans during those three weeks where the weather shifts from "paradise" to "slightly cloudier paradise, you should bring a jacket." I legit LOL’d visiting LA two winters ago. It was 72 and pure sun one day (mid-Jan, it was 13 F when I left Logan) and a couple walked past me, the guy getting brutally admonished that he should’ve brought a hat despite pants and a jacket. I actual saw people wearing ski parkas at night.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 20, 2019 22:58:09 GMT -5
Agreed. SD has SOOOO many high-end prospects right now. They could graduate 4-5 and still have the minor league capital to pull off two deals for deadline/offseason All-Star vets with 2-3 years of control. This is a great move for them with Tatis Jr coming and their stable of young pitchers. The Padres arguably have 12 of the top 125 prospects in the game right now. I agree, they are coming and are coming soon. I don't think this will be a ridiculous contract to move if you're San Diego too. Machado only has a limited no trade clause in this deal. The Padres can easily get rid of this contract if they feel the need to cut back payroll. Yeah, I agree 100%. Barring catastrophe, this is a moveable contract, no problem. I mean, the Mariners moved Cano and he was a lot older, and coming of a PED suspension. Machado’s a pretty good bet to outperform this contract, and a pretty fair bet to still be providing market value at the back end. I wouldn't be **remotely** surprised to see him putting up 3-5 WAR at 33-34. I’d actually be more surprised if he was worth less than 3 WAR at 35 than more than 4. Unless (and it’s fair to wonder) he turns out to be a lazy bum who lets himself go. Regardless, he gives them a cornerstone to bring in that talent around, starting with Tatis jr and Urías. The team defense is going to be very good to outstanding depending on where they stick Myers.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2019 23:51:28 GMT -5
But yeah, Manny in 2008 was atrocious. Boras was in his ear about getting a huge contract and Manny was all about his contract that year and what he did was disgusting. He definitely put himself above the team. Your theory is that Manny gave up in 2008 and assaulted the travel manager... because his agent told him that sort of thing will help him get a huge contract? Okay. No my theory is (or at least I think it was - 11 years ago was awhile ago so my memory is fading on this subject) that Manny did not want the Red Sox to pick up the two option years he had. I think Boras had it in Manny's head that he could get $100 million or something like that in free agency. I don't think Boras told Manny to assault the travel manager, no, but I think he made it very clear that it was not in Manny's best interests to have the Red Sox pick up those options. Manny clearly wanted out at that point and basically shot his way out. I also have a theory that Manny was on PEDs at some point that year because he wanted to put up monster numbers, especially after his injury riddled pedestrian performance of 2007 - and you might recall that Manny nearly hit .400 with the Dodgers those last two months. And yeah, my PEDs theory is 110% speculation on my part and could be totally wrong, even though I have my suspicions.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 21, 2019 1:28:20 GMT -5
Yeap Manny quiting on the 2008 team is way worse than trying to be dirty or lazy Manny Machado imo. Manny pushed McCormick, fought with Youk in front of the camera, made stupid signs in front of the NESN camera because he wanted out because of a stupid contract despute. He wanted more money when he was under contract and the Sox were saying they were going to pick up Manny's 2009 option year. Manny didn't like that and was pulling this stuff all of 2008. Manny Ramirez was also lazy or made nonsense lazy plays throughout the whole time he was here. Yet despite all that Manny is revered and loved in Boston and talked about fondly. Hell I'm guilty when it comes to that. I enjoyed watching him hit and had laughs at some of his comical defense I don't get why he's revered especially though. Manny Ramirez would be the last guy I revered on those championship teams. The Sox lost to the Rays in Game 7 of the ALCS. Two of those losses were decided by 2 runs or less. I'm still convinced that team gets by with Manny at the plate. Like with what James was saying with the HOF talk when it came to Schilling, if Manny got in the HOF, I wouldn't care at all (he's not going to get in, but still). The worst thing you can do to your teamates in sports is give up on them when everyone else is trying to win. He had good teamates in Cora, Lowell, Ortiz (his perceived best buddy). He was making really good money. Like sorry Manny that you signed a really good deal for you at the time and a good deal for the team later in the deal. Where did all that behavior get him? A extra year at 5 million per year? Sorry doesn't cut it for me. As for Manny Machado, I think we are all being hypocritical as Sox fans for bashing this deal. Like we are the the LAST PEOPLE to think the Padres can't win or develop players with a a-hole on your team, as evidenced by Manny Ramirez. It's like Yankee fans complaining about the Sox payroll last year for being the highest spending team after they were the biggest spenders in baseball for 2 decades almost.
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