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David Ortiz shot in the DR
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 20, 2019 6:47:47 GMT -5
Yeah on Ortiz contreversy, I believe no one will know the real truth behind it. I don't really care what dirt he's got on him. He didn't deserve this and nothing he did will ever cast a shadow from me and how I view him right now. He was a victim. He's the most important player in Red Sox history. I am glad I helped pay for that man's salary as I watched him play a bunch of times at Fenway. I feel like I owe this man a lot more on top of it, even though that's not the case. I don't know why anyone is posting anything bad about Ortiz. This team would have been nothing without him. Go pick on someone else please. I implore you. Dude is a hero to me. This is exactly my stance... Very well stated.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 7:02:06 GMT -5
Yeah on Ortiz contreversy, I believe no one will know the real truth behind it. I don't really care what dirt he's got on him. He didn't deserve this and nothing he did will ever cast a shadow from me and how I view him right now. He was a victim. He's the most important player in Red Sox history. I am glad I helped pay for that man's salary as I watched him play a bunch of times at Fenway. I feel like I owe this man a lot more on top of it, even though that's not the case. I don't know why anyone is posting anything bad about Ortiz. This team would have been nothing without him. Go pick on someone else please. I implore you. Dude is a hero to me. I don't think anyone is saying Ortiz deserved to be potentially murdered. I think people, like myself, want to know why someone wanted to take that man's life. Could he have done something scummy like cheat on his wife with a drug lords wife? Maybe. Still doesn't make me think less of him or appreciate all he's done for Boston or that he in anyway deserves this. All it means is that he's a flawed human, like us all.
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Post by patford on Jun 20, 2019 7:21:15 GMT -5
Apparently some people missed the fact the nonsense has been moved to throwdown ?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,075
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Post by cdj on Jun 20, 2019 7:40:42 GMT -5
Apparently some people missed the fact the nonsense has been moved to throwdown ? When you have the chance to believe tabloid garbage over law enforcement you gotta do it!
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 8:54:02 GMT -5
Apparently some people missed the fact the nonsense has been moved to throwdown ? When you have the chance to believe tabloid garbage over law enforcement you gotta do it! I just visited the other thread and see that it's ventured down a path that I lost somewhere around US Supreme Court Justice. I don't trust local DR authorities, no. They have a lot of issues going on with that country right now and some of what they're saying doesn't add up a whole lot. I think it's a convenient story for all parties involved. At least 8 US citizens have died mysteriously recently (which has prompted an FBI investigation) and now a super star athlete was just shot in the back. They need the tourists. Ortiz wouldn't want to put logs on the fire admitting who put out the hit and I'm sure the people involved don't want to snitch on their bosses nor go to prison having planned to kill an icon. For one, if it were an accident, why is he under guarded protection in the hospital? Two, all those people and they couldn't get it right on who to shoot? Nor did the killer think to shoot both for good measure? Third, the gunman only knew of his target based on the color of his pants? He had a blurry photo that made it look like he had white pants on when he was wearing black? That's how he confused David Ortiz with his intended target? Ortiz was shot at night, sitting down facing away from his intended target who walked right up to him and shot him in the back. Fourth, what, did he only know the color of his targets pants, which was wrong? They don't even have the same body build or look similar in any way. Fifth, we know Ortiz car was ran off the road a month ago and supposedly we have pictures of the check for the car he bought his mistress. If Ortiz really wasn't the intended target then I'm truly fascinated on the hit man's story and the levels of incompetence they displayed. Just Google Dominican Republic corruption and you'll see a slew of hits that says stuff like, "world leader", "ranked 22nd in the world". So, I'm not overly trusting of the "offical reports". I'm willing to put money that by today and this time next year there will be a TMZ or NY Times article that completely contradicts everything being made offical.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 20, 2019 9:39:58 GMT -5
Two, all those people and they couldn't get it right on who to shoot? I mean, you say "all those people" like telling a bunch of people about your murder conspiracy isn't the dumbest thing you could do. Nor did the killer think to shoot both for good measure? Third, the gunman only knew of his target based on the color of his pants? He had a blurry photo that made it look like he had white pants on when he was wearing black? That's how he confused David Ortiz with his intended target? Ortiz was shot at night, sitting down facing away from his intended target who walked right up to him and shot him in the back. Fourth, what, did he only know the color of his targets pants, which was wrong? They don't even have the same body build or look similar in any way. Here's the thing, regardless of the intent of the would be assassins, this was not a good plan and it was not well executed. There's no version of events where these people displayed the tiniest bit of competence. They didn't want to kill Ortiz? They hit him in his damn liver! Some drug lord wanted "send a message"? Seems like there'd be no better way to get the Dominican authorities to crack down on your criminal operation than an assassination attempt on a beloved national icon. They left witnesses, security camera footage, numerous co-conspirators... there's just no interpretation of events that I can see where this wasn't a terrible plan executed incompetently.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 9:58:51 GMT -5
Two, all those people and they couldn't get it right on who to shoot? I mean, you say "all those people" like telling a bunch of people about your murder conspiracy isn't the dumbest thing you could do. Nor did the killer think to shoot both for good measure? Third, the gunman only knew of his target based on the color of his pants? He had a blurry photo that made it look like he had white pants on when he was wearing black? That's how he confused David Ortiz with his intended target? Ortiz was shot at night, sitting down facing away from his intended target who walked right up to him and shot him in the back. Fourth, what, did he only know the color of his targets pants, which was wrong? They don't even have the same body build or look similar in any way. Here's the thing, regardless of the intent of the would be assassins, this was not a good plan and it was not well executed. There's no version of events where these people displayed the tiniest bit of competence. They didn't want to kill Ortiz? They hit him in his damn liver! Some drug lord wanted "send a message"? Seems like there'd be no better way to get the Dominican authorities to crack down on your criminal operation than an assassination attempt on a beloved national icon. They left witnesses, security camera footage, numerous co-conspirators... there's just no interpretation of events that I can see where this wasn't a terrible plan executed incompetently. I meant all the people implicated and arrested. Yes, they showed a ton of incompetence, that can't be denied, but we're going to believe it was over confusion of the color of his pants when he was sitting down facing away from him? That the most identifiable guy on the entire island could be so easily confused? Is there a bigger celebrity from the DR? He didn't recognize the person he fired at, at all? Ortiz had his car ran off the road the month before. It sounds like the message was already sent and the gunman just panicked and tried to fire and run. They had a plan for a getaway, it was just horribly executed. As far as having the authorities cracking down on your organization, not so sure about that. It's not like firing at Ortiz's friend with him sitting there wouldn't set authorities after you anyways. "Gunman fires at Ortiz's entourage" would still get the attention of everyone. You can call it a conspiracy theory if you'd like. The "offical report" sounds like cover up. Again, watch the video. The gunman walked right behind Ortiz and fired point blank and tried to run. At some point he had to know who he was shooting.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 20, 2019 9:59:54 GMT -5
The fact that Ortiz was shot in the back makes it highly believable that the gunman wasn't looking at his face.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 10:02:00 GMT -5
The fact that Ortiz was shot in the back makes it highly believable that the gunman wasn't looking at his face. The two have very distinct body types.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 20, 2019 10:03:55 GMT -5
The prosecutor getting on her soap box to wax poetic about David Ortiz was definitely different.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 20, 2019 10:14:00 GMT -5
The fact that Ortiz was shot in the back makes it highly believable that the gunman wasn't looking at his face. The two have very distinct body types. Seems like an impossible mistake to make when you aren't in a crowded room with your adrenaline running at 7000%. And look, I'm not saying I have 100% faith in the official version of the story either, I'm just saying that I think that version is at least plausible.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 10:22:14 GMT -5
The two have very distinct body types. Seems like an impossible mistake to make when you aren't in a crowded room with your adrenaline running at 7000%. And look, I'm not saying I have 100% faith in the official version of the story either, I'm just saying that I think that version is at least plausible. Reading the offical report even more, unfortunately there's no clear picture of the shirts both men were wearing. The photo the hitman had doesn't look like Ortiz, at all, but it was blurry. They're claiming both men are wearing virtually the same shirt (which is odd) and that the shooter judge based on pants, that I'm not sure they'd be able to really see. So maybe I am being a theorist. Everything is very bizarre about this story. Maybe it's also possible that Ortiz was doing the stuff he was accused of, had his car ran off as a warning, got the message, and this was a coincidental attack on his friend, which I guess is also plausible.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 20, 2019 11:53:58 GMT -5
What's also possible is that two stories are being conflated into one.
I'm not 100% sure I buy what they're saying in the DR, but I do think it's plausible.
Even though the two look nothing alike, I do think it's plausible that it was a case of mistaken identity. If there was extreme focus on a shirt based off a blurred photo and everything is kind of moving at warp speed as the shooter knows he has to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible, yes, there can be a screw-up.
I don't know what to make out of the report that Ortiz had his car ran off the road.
I think there's plausible evidence that Ortiz spent $85K on a car that wasn't for his wife. Does that necessarily mean he was being unfaithful? No. Is it a leap to think perhaps he was? No, but then again, say he was, does that really change the person he is inside and all of the great things he has done on or off the field? No. There have been men who have been amazing and wonderful people who have not been faithful to their wives. It's not a crime. That's a situation between Ortiz and his wife - IF that is the case. Either way, while I hope he's been faithful because it aligns with my beliefs as to how a marriage should function, I still have the utmost admiration for David Ortiz who has brought plenty of wonderful moments and life altering (for the better) memories that I will have my whole life, for which I'll always be thankful for - and hope to one day meet him and tell him that.
But even if it was - and again it might NOT be the case, that doesn't mean that there's a link to the shooting. Doesn't mean that this model was a druglord's wife and he wanted vengeance on Ortiz.
So it's quite possible we're talking two separate issues that really have nothing to do with each other and one is a brutal crime and the other is kind of nobody's business.
And it's also quite possible, Ortiz has been a faithful spouse and she really is just a valued family friend who has a loyal friend who looks at 85K as pocket change. I don't know if I totally believe that, but it could be, but honestly it doesn't really matter, or change who I think he is.
I'd be more concerned with Ortiz's safety and the question of was he really the target? I hope he wasn't, but it's at least plausible that he wasn't and that we're getting the truth. Just not sure I'd bet my life on that being the truth, but I won't dismiss it either despite the skeptics.
My guess is we'll continue to hear rumors and innuendo and we'll never really know for sure. I just hope it is true, that Ortiz wasn't the target, and will be safe in the future with added security, hope that Ortiz never loses his wonderful spirit, because I can only imagine the lack of a secure feeling wondering if somebody is lurking, probably a feeling he didn't have as strongly as before.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 20, 2019 12:45:03 GMT -5
A little blurb from ESPN which was interesting about "irrefutable audio and video evidence". Has any of that audio evidence been shown anywhere?
Marly Rivera ESPN Writer
Here is what Dominican Attorney General Jean Alain Rodriguez answered when I asked him if he had any concerns as to whether the international community would believe the explanation of David Ortiz's shooting as a case of 'mistaken identity': "We presented irrefutable audio and video evidence today. Science is science, evidence is evidence. These facts are undisputed; the rest is speculation."
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Post by Gwell55 on Jun 20, 2019 13:00:48 GMT -5
Sure seems this can also be true and the rumor mongrels here sure don't want to admit this could dispute their earlier reports on the pants don't match. All the actions here sure seem like it should be moved to a throw down forum as the rumors here are getting old!! "An accomplice, identified as Alberto Miguel Rodríguez Mota, snapped a picture of Fernández at the bar in an effort to help the gunman identify him, the authorities said. But the lighting was bad and in the image and Fernández's lower body was obscured by a white object, making it seem that he was wearing white pants. Fernández was actually wearing black pants. And Ortiz, clad in white pants, was hit with the bullet meant for Fernández, officials said. Speaking through the bars of his Dominican jail last week, Ferreras Cruz told reporters that he mistakenly shot Ortiz based on information about the color of his clothing. Officials have now corroborated the claim for the first time." www.wcbe.org/post/david-ortiz-shooting-case-mistaken-identity-dominican-officials-say
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 16:52:18 GMT -5
Sure seems this can also be true and the rumor mongrels here sure don't want to admit this could dispute their earlier reports on the pants don't match. All the actions here sure seem like it should be moved to a throw down forum as the rumors here are getting old!! "An accomplice, identified as Alberto Miguel Rodríguez Mota, snapped a picture of Fernández at the bar in an effort to help the gunman identify him, the authorities said. But the lighting was bad and in the image and Fernández's lower body was obscured by a white object, making it seem that he was wearing white pants. Fernández was actually wearing black pants. And Ortiz, clad in white pants, was hit with the bullet meant for Fernández, officials said. Speaking through the bars of his Dominican jail last week, Ferreras Cruz told reporters that he mistakenly shot Ortiz based on information about the color of his clothing. Officials have now corroborated the claim for the first time." www.wcbe.org/post/david-ortiz-shooting-case-mistaken-identity-dominican-officials-sayThis was literally a week ago: Then there's this: www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/suspect-in-david-ortiz-shooting-says-red-sox-player-was-not-his-intended-targetSo, 1 week ago prosecutors were saying that this was silly to claim he didn't know who he was shooting. Now, they're all onboard with it? I mean, the guy looks nothing like Ortiz and isn't even nearly the same build or skin tone. They're sticking with the color of his pants, which I don't know if the gunman could ever even see since Ortiz was sitting down and facing away in a nightclub at 9pm. There's also this: deadspin.com/police-describe-some-pretty-unexpected-details-in-ongoi-1835465658CBSNews has the whole video of the incident here including meeting with other people prior to discuss the plan and him entering, walking immediately to where he was sitting, firing, and running away. There's no way he scouted his pants. There was absolutely zero hesitation. www.cbsnews.com/news/david-ortiz-shooting-authorities-release-new-surveillance-footage/The people of the DR don't even seem to believe it: www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/06/19/dominicans-skeptical-authorities-statement-that-david-ortiz-was-innocent-victim/SOzAW8VeeRlDNPET5u7vRL/story.html The DR claims they have evidence that proves that this was a horrible case of wrong place, wrong time, but I'd like to see it. Even though it's black and white, their shirts don't exactly look alike either. I have no idea who the intended target was suppose to be judging by the videos but the two other men at the table also appear to be wearing hats whereas Ortiz is not. Though the picture used by prosecutors also show a hatless target. I also think it's weird that Ortiz is being guarded despite the mistaken identity. I also find it strange the AG for some reason feels the need to speak about David Ortiz's character. The DR criminal justice system is considered one of the most corrupt in the world and there's motives for all parties for this to be a case of bad luck. www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/dominican-republic/So again, I want to see this undeniable evidence that they have. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying this story just doesn't sound right.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 20, 2019 17:03:26 GMT -5
Of all the conspiracies I research, this is one that I have zero interest in because whatever the story is will not change my opinion on David Ortiz or affect my life in any possible way. The only thing I have learned is not to visit the DR. I do research a ton of conspiracies and it's easy to spot that this is one that clearly you're never going to get an answer on.
All I care about is Papi's health and the announcement that he'll be on the field at Fenway again.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 20, 2019 17:06:04 GMT -5
Of all the conspiracies I research, this is one that I have zero interest in because whatever the story is will not change my opinion on David Ortiz or affect my life in any possible way. The only thing I have learned is not to visit the DR. I do research a ton of conspiracies and it's easy to spot that this is one that clearly you're never going to get an answer on. All I care about is Papi's health and the announcement that he'll be on the field at Fenway again. That's fair all the way around.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 22, 2019 17:42:51 GMT -5
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pd
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Post by pd on Jun 22, 2019 20:47:37 GMT -5
Yea but think of the Karma: Guy doing good by turning in drug dealer isn’t shot. Guy doing bad by having an affair is shot If that’s not karma i don’t know what is.... Jokes just jokes... too soon? That's not a joke, that's completely uninformed slander. There's a difference.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 23, 2019 9:17:02 GMT -5
Yea but think of the Karma: Guy doing good by turning in drug dealer isn’t shot. Guy doing bad by having an affair is shot If that’s not karma i don’t know what is.... Jokes just jokes... too soon? That's not a joke, that's completely uninformed slander. There's a difference. The joke was making fun of the people who said karma was why he was shot. Add: also it’d be libel
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KB24
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Post by KB24 on Jul 9, 2019 11:15:08 GMT -5
Exactly a month since Ortiz was shot and still in the hospital as far as I know. Somewhat surprising considering he was listed as stable like 3 weeks ago. I'm sure it's a long road ahead to recovery and I hope he's able to be released soon.
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Post by sittingstill on Jul 11, 2019 9:42:56 GMT -5
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,075
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Post by cdj on Jul 11, 2019 13:25:23 GMT -5
I just want him out of the woods and watching Sox playoff games at Fenway come October
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Post by soxcentral on Jul 23, 2019 12:49:14 GMT -5
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