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Mid-Season Acquistion Time
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Post by hammerhead on Aug 2, 2019 1:45:57 GMT -5
It's not just about who we added at the deadline and their impact on the team it's about doing everything you can to win. If you guys haven't felt the psychological impact doing nothing has had you simply aren't watching the same team.
Before the deadline we beat Tampa in a series, they're reeling the sox are on their way to the playoffs, the team feels confident and like they're getting better. We steamroll the Yankees. After the deadline the the Rays bolster their bullpen and offense, the sox ownership says "sorry guys, you should be punished for the bad start." The team comes out so flat... I know you homers have to feel it..Look at the swing in the standings...
Just like there's a psychological benefit to defined bullpen roles and a stud closer. There's a psychological benefit to improving at the deadline.
I know you statheads, who believe Dombrowski when he says "We just love our current bullpen" think that this is a talk radio fairytale, but these players are human. They don't change their underware when they're on a winning streak and they feel abandoned when the deadline passes without improving. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is.
It's why teams spend money on psychologists.
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 2, 2019 6:30:44 GMT -5
You expected DD to go after Daniel Hudson with the expectation that he'd be a legit contributor while also having to DFA either Workman or Hembree in the process? You and God were the only two that saw that coming. Greg Holland - $3.25M and a 4.54 ERA In this bullsh*t exercise in revisionist history where you get to cherry pick two names out of 100 to prove your point and you still can't pick a decent reliever? Hilarious. I expected DD to get someone and not rely on Darwinzon Hernandez in his 3rd game in a row in high leverage. That would be more ideal. Ohh Holland isn't very good, but you know who he's better than this year? Steve Pearce. Took all of 5 minutes for Sam Travis to replace him. Called that one in the off-season and called that crap when it came out too. There was a million directions DD could have gone. How about beating the White Sox offer for Alex Colome? How about taking on a reliever contract? Try something other than you know, spending money on a guy who just had TOS in Tyler Thornburg. WOW I have not seen you get this excited since they traded away Kopech. Picking up a relief pitcher is always a crap shoot. Dave's decisions last year for the most part turned into gold. This year just the opposite. I totally agree with you on Pearce. Thought they should have given Travis his shot and fixed it later in the year if it did not work. In Dave's mind the internal options were better than any outside option, hence no Colome. I think that Dave was pussy footing around the salary cap and Cashner was his one card to play. I do not think that Dave completely thru in the towel on the season, but I think he was looking at long term to see what he really had with the pitching in the system. To help him make decisions on the team needs this coming winter. I certainly can understand your frustrations. I think Dave's biggest concern right now is navigating the salary cap concerns. Not this season. Hence he did not go get somebody. I also think that he has identified a core group on the farm that he does not want to give up.
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Post by oilcan73 on Aug 2, 2019 7:20:14 GMT -5
I think the idea that DD should have added is insane. What good is a RP going to do when our starters get shelled every night? Their SP has been awful this year, and adding one RP is not the answer. They should have been selling in my opinion. I wonder if any team would have been at all interested in Price or Sale for a pack of big league chew. Getting out from under those terrible contracts would be a blessing. I'm sure it would have been difficult to deal either of them, but there is always one stupid team it seems. DD has every right to think this team is too inconsistent...they are. Lose 2 of 3 to Baltimore, take 3 of 4 from NY and then get swept at home by TB. The only thing that has been consistent this year (beside Devers and Bogaerts) is the SP...consistently bad!
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Post by danredhawk on Aug 2, 2019 11:32:31 GMT -5
It's not just about who we added at the deadline and their impact on the team it's about doing everything you can to win. If you guys haven't felt the psychological impact doing nothing has had you simply aren't watching the same team.. Interesting theory. So, Porcello and Cashner turned in clunkers because they were sad and dismayed that the front office didn’t make a move to solidify the bullpen? They were just in the dumps because even if they pitched well they had no shiny new teammate to turn the ball over too? What is their excuse for their performances pre-deadline?? Meanwhile, the offense pounded out 22 hits in two games since the deadline (double digits each night) and scored nine runs (which would have been more had they seen better fortune in RISP (4-19) situations, including a few very loud outs like Chavis’ last night). As a group, with 22 hits (7 XBH, 4 HR), the hitters don’t seem to be performing all that differently despite all the pity they might be expected to feel for themselves... Hard to HONESTLY evaluate the bullpen when they’ve been buried by the starters two nights in a row. A couple halfway decent starts and we don’t see Hembree at all and there would be no need to whine about him. I suppose this is where we argue the hypothetical mop up upgrade we could have nabbed who would have given up just two runs over the last two nights (as opposed to HH’s three) and provided the Sox with the ‘marginal improvement’, ‘psychological upgrade’ and ‘belief’ that would also allow the offense to post the necessary (and confident!) 30 hits and eight HRs needed thanks to the SP performances... Yes, players are human. They’re not weak minded, message board fan boys - and if anything effected their ‘belief’ the last two nights it’s probably finding themselves immediately behind and eventually buried in 6-2 and 7-3 holes by the starters. If they’re so mentally fragile that it’s due to DD failing to make a trade, than Sam Dyson isn’t saving them anyway, sorry to break it to you... With good starting pitching the team wins the TB series. Instead they got non-competitive outings and lost. It doesn’t take Freud to see what actually took place...
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Post by wrangler713 on Aug 3, 2019 9:59:55 GMT -5
With the new rules with no trades, can we acquire players that are DFA? Like if the Jays DFA Smoak can we claim him?
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Post by soxjim on Aug 3, 2019 22:10:53 GMT -5
I think the idea that DD should have added is insane. What good is a RP going to do when our starters get shelled every night? Their SP has been awful this year, and adding one RP is not the answer. They should have been selling in my opinion. I wonder if any team would have been at all interested in Price or Sale for a pack of big league chew. Getting out from under those terrible contracts would be a blessing. I'm sure it would have been difficult to deal either of them, but there is always one stupid team it seems. DD has every right to think this team is too inconsistent...they are. Lose 2 of 3 to Baltimore, take 3 of 4 from NY and then get swept at home by TB. The only thing that has been consistent this year (beside Devers and Bogaerts) is the SP...consistently bad! Did you know after Sox won 3 games vs the Yanks a week ago that Sale and Price would crumble and were basically no good for the rest of the season? You were confident Sale would get wiped out as well as Price after Sox beat Yanks in 3 straight? But yet you were confident last year Price was going to tremendous late in the year/playoff time? Or was it last year you had "at least a feeling" he'd be real good late despite his postseason struggles and just at the right time this year you knew when he'd crumble?
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 4, 2019 14:01:06 GMT -5
PawSox announcers just said the Twins put Sam Dyson on the IL. So be thrilled the Sox didn’t make that move last week.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 4, 2019 14:19:43 GMT -5
PawSox announcers just said the Twins put Sam Dyson on the IL. So be thrilled the Sox didn’t make that move last week. But if he were here he wouldn't have gotten hurt and we'd have a 7 game winning streak.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 4, 2019 15:08:46 GMT -5
PawSox announcers just said the Twins put Sam Dyson on the IL. So be thrilled the Sox didn’t make that move last week. But if he were here he wouldn't have gotten hurt and we'd have a 7 game winning streak. That seems to be what everybody is saying. I championed his acquisition - never said he was a cure-all to what ails the Red Sox. Really, take a look at where they were as they neared the deadline. They were 59-47, coming off a stretch where the starters all went 6, beat up a good NYY team, and looked headed in the right direction. They were tied for a wild card spot. Why the hell shouldn't they have tried to improve their bullpen. No kidding, Dyson wouldn't have prevented the losing streak. Mariano Rivera wouldn't have either. But that is so NOT the point. I'm tired of people hammering those who thought the bullpen needed upgrading. Everybody here knows the rotation has sucked. Other than getting a Cashner what could have realistically been done? They weren't going to get Stroman most likely or Greinke, so why shouldn't a team tied for the wild card spot try to fix something that is more realistically fixable? If everybody here knew that the starters were going to go back into spring training mode, then where was everybody saying so? It seems like when some people were saying, "Sell! Sell! Sell", many others were saying "Are you crazy? They're right there and finally hitting their stride." So why wouldn't a reasonable person conclude that the team was still in it when they were 59-47? I have no problem with the thought that the Sox should try to improve their pen the best they can without giving up too much. Dyson was an example. Hell, I wouldn't have minded the Sox taking a flyer on Nate Jones if he was healthy. He wasn't going to cost the crown jewels. Would it have solved the problem? No. We all know the rotation had been a disappointment at that point. What we didn't know is that they'd totally tank again as opposed to playing closer to their career norms. I think it was reasonable to expect/hope that Sale and Price pitch better and Porcello not suck, and Cashner pitch closer to how he was pitching with Baltimore. It didn't happen, but I'm tired of people taking a bow about who they knew the rotation would tank again and how anybody who thought that the pen could use improving if the cost was reasonable was all wet. We can all debate what is reasonable, but it doesn't take away from my main point. I'm not sorry I suggested Dyson. The Twins didn't know that his shoulder was going to be an issue or else they wouldn't have dealt for him. Giles was known at that point, but Dyson wasn't.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 4, 2019 15:39:59 GMT -5
Can we all just acknowledge that the Sox Pen could have improved with an arm before the season and at the trade deadline. That was the hope and expectation.
Can we also acknowledge that hoping on strong contributions from a couple of Brasier, Brewer, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez, Thornburg, C. Smith, Mejia, Lakins, Feltman, Darwinzon, Shawaryn was not crazy talk.
Also that surpassing the final cap prevented getting a top arm like Ottavino; that we can believe Ottavino and his family’s statements that he absolutely wanted to play for his childhood home team the nyfy; that several of the top and most of the marginally affordable arms are doing poorly or gotten hurt ... to the point that maybe as few as one in twenty might have improved the Pen in 2019, which are only better than lottery odds; and that unexpectedly (by almost everyone) poor performance by the 4-5IP Rotation overworked and fatigued what strength the Pen DID have.
This may not be our year, but it’s not over yet. And with an “August” Pen of Eovaldi, Darwinzon, Barnes, Workman, Brasier, Walden, Taylor, whomever, the Pen will continue to not be the big problem on this team.
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Post by coachmac on Aug 4, 2019 19:24:03 GMT -5
Dyson and Elias placed on IL. 2 deadlines go on IL. Green has blown 2 saves for the Braves.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 4, 2019 20:38:04 GMT -5
Entire pitching staff has issues. Not just the rotation.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 4, 2019 20:44:06 GMT -5
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Post by incandenza on Aug 24, 2019 11:57:26 GMT -5
Thought I'd see how certain guys have been doing since the trade deadline...
Sam Dyson - 5.2 IP, 11.12 ERA, 4.98 FIP Shane Greene - 9.1, 6.75, 4.29 Sergio Romo - 9.1, 4.82, 4.72 Derek Holland - 8.1, 5.40, 5.74 Daniel Hudson - 9.1, 1.93, 3.43 Joe Biagini - 7.2, 5.87, 6.61
Edwin Diaz - 6.1, 5.68, 6.06
Darwinzon Hernandez - 10.2, 5.06, 3.59 Josh Taylor - 11.1, 0.79, 2.25 Marcus Walden - 9.0, 1.00, 4.88 Ryan Weber - 7.0, 1.29, 2.50 Josh Smith - 6.0, 1.50, 3.22
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 24, 2019 14:11:15 GMT -5
The bullpen hasn't thrown a important inning since the first week of August, so there's that.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 24, 2019 15:14:46 GMT -5
Entire pitching staff has issues. Not just the rotation. But they invested so much in the starting staff. In relation to salary (expected performance) vs (actual) performance they have to be near the bottom.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 24, 2019 15:29:00 GMT -5
But if he were here he wouldn't have gotten hurt and we'd have a 7 game winning streak. Why the hell shouldn't they have tried to improve their bullpen. No kidding, Dyson wouldn't have prevented the losing streak. Mariano Rivera wouldn't have either. But that is so NOT the point. I'm tired of people hammering those who thought the bullpen needed upgrading. Everybody here knows the rotation has sucked. Other than getting a Cashner what could have realistically been done? They weren't going to get Stroman most likely or Greinke, so why shouldn't a team tied for the wild card spot try to fix something that is more realistically fixable? If everybody here knew that the starters were going to go back into spring training mode, then where was everybody saying so? It seems like when some people were saying, "Sell! Sell! Sell", many others were saying "Are you crazy? They're right there and finally hitting their stride." So why wouldn't a reasonable person conclude that the team was still in it when they were 59-47? For some of us-- we thought it was "make or break" with the starters thus we didn't want to "over-spend" to get bullpen help. I think that was said. What you're saying is true too. In other words-- "why not improve if you can improve?" It was something other than "Sell Sell Sell" or "buy a reliever." That's why some of us are defending DD. IMO at the time there was no evidence to support the starters would come around-- it was possible hope. Which is fine but who would know with certainty the starters were "ready?" Yet this didn't mean that there was no hope. You have some optimism along with the possibility of adding a bullpen piece. IMO a reasonable person could also assume that if the starters didn't come around then the season was over anyways.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 26, 2019 5:52:12 GMT -5
Thought I'd see how certain guys have been doing since the trade deadline... Sam Dyson - 5.2 IP, 11.12 ERA, 4.98 FIP Shane Greene - 9.1, 6.75, 4.29 Sergio Romo - 9.1, 4.82, 4.72 Derek Holland - 8.1, 5.40, 5.74 Daniel Hudson - 9.1, 1.93, 3.43 Joe Biagini - 7.2, 5.87, 6.61 Edwin Diaz - 6.1, 5.68, 6.06 Darwinzon Hernandez - 10.2, 5.06, 3.59 Josh Taylor - 11.1, 0.79, 2.25 Marcus Walden - 9.0, 1.00, 4.88 Ryan Weber - 7.0, 1.29, 2.50 Josh Smith - 6.0, 1.50, 3.22 So basically everybody stinks except for the guy everybody didn’t want (Hudson) Lololol. Relievers.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 26, 2019 8:45:23 GMT -5
Thought I'd see how certain guys have been doing since the trade deadline... Sam Dyson - 5.2 IP, 11.12 ERA, 4.98 FIP Shane Greene - 9.1, 6.75, 4.29 Sergio Romo - 9.1, 4.82, 4.72 Derek Holland - 8.1, 5.40, 5.74 Daniel Hudson - 9.1, 1.93, 3.43 Joe Biagini - 7.2, 5.87, 6.61 Edwin Diaz - 6.1, 5.68, 6.06 Darwinzon Hernandez - 10.2, 5.06, 3.59 Josh Taylor - 11.1, 0.79, 2.25 Marcus Walden - 9.0, 1.00, 4.88 Ryan Weber - 7.0, 1.29, 2.50 Josh Smith - 6.0, 1.50, 3.22 We keep what few prospects we have and are not saddled with others garbage. A mini win for desperate Dave.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 26, 2019 9:36:34 GMT -5
Thought I'd see how certain guys have been doing since the trade deadline... Sam Dyson - 5.2 IP, 11.12 ERA, 4.98 FIP Shane Greene - 9.1, 6.75, 4.29 Sergio Romo - 9.1, 4.82, 4.72 Derek Holland - 8.1, 5.40, 5.74 Daniel Hudson - 9.1, 1.93, 3.43 Joe Biagini - 7.2, 5.87, 6.61 Edwin Diaz - 6.1, 5.68, 6.06 Darwinzon Hernandez - 10.2, 5.06, 3.59 Josh Taylor - 11.1, 0.79, 2.25 Marcus Walden - 9.0, 1.00, 4.88 Ryan Weber - 7.0, 1.29, 2.50 Josh Smith - 6.0, 1.50, 3.22 We keep what few prospects we have and are not saddled with others garbage. A mini win for desperate Dave. So desperate Dave wasn't desperate? Your nicknames for him are.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 29, 2019 6:36:23 GMT -5
Scooter Gennett was released two days ago. This guy was one of the best hitting second baseman in the league last year. I'd take a chance seeing how the Sox second base position isn't exactly lockdown right now. Good resign candidate if he performs too.
Add- He's on release waivers right now, but I expect the Sox to get in the Scooter Gennett market once he clears. He should be formally released today, giving the Sox a chance to get him on a off day.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 29, 2019 8:58:33 GMT -5
Scooter Gennett was released two days ago. This guy was one of the best hitting second baseman in the league last year. I'd take a chance seeing how the Sox second base position isn't exactly lockdown right now. Good resign candidate if he performs too. Add- He's on release waivers right now, but I expect the Sox to get in the Scooter Gennett market once he clears. He should be formally released today, giving the Sox a chance to get him on a off day. I wouldn't count on it. I liked Gennett too, but beyond his injuries and struggles this year, he's lefthanded. They are well stocked in LH hitters who play 2b. Brock Holt and Marco Hernandez have played very well this year. I wouldn't anticipate seeing a 3rd lefty added to that bunch. It's too bad Gennett isn't righty and could take Owings' ABs, but at this point Chavis should be coming back to take those ABs and Sam Travis has hit well enough lately to make a useful platoon partner for Mitch Moreland. I have to say - I have been quite impressed with Brock Holt's bat since say August 2018. Maybe there is something to that axe handle bat stuff, but the fact is he's hit very well since then. High OBP to go with his strong BA along with some punch. Gennett hasn't been able to match that this season. I do hope they keep Brock around after this year. I'm not convinced that Marco Hernandez necessarily has a better future offensively than Holt as Hernandez strikes me as one of those guys whose OBPs won't be much higher than their BAs. Of course, Hernandez should be better defensively and have much better speed, but I'm still a Holt fan here.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 29, 2019 13:06:36 GMT -5
For 2B: Chavis/Holt? Chavis/Scooter? Chavis/Marco? Chavis/Lin? That is the big question, IMO.
For the bench: Holt, Marco, RHB, C? Holt, Scooter, RHB, C? Hilt, Lin, RHB, C?
FWIW, I would build the bench around Holt. He is the better hitter, more versatile fielder, a solid base runner (and, incidently, has by far the most value to both clubhouse chemistry and community involvement.) Meanwhile, though I really like Marco’s speed, pop and perseverance, he likely has the most value of the group in a trade. Such a good conundrum.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 31, 2019 3:26:08 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Aug 31, 2019 10:47:17 GMT -5
For 2B: Chavis/Holt? Chavis/Scooter? Chavis/Marco? Chavis/Lin? That is the big question, IMO. For the bench: Holt, Marco, RHB, C? Holt, Scooter, RHB, C? Hilt, Lin, RHB, C? FWIW, I would build the bench around Holt. He is the better hitter, more versatile fielder, a solid base runner (and, incidently, has by far the most value to both clubhouse chemistry and community involvement.) Meanwhile, though I really like Marco’s speed, pop and perseverance, he likely has the most value of the group in a trade. Such a good conundrum. It’s really gonna bum me out, but I don’t think Holt is back. And that’s a shame, because he’s a terrific utility guy, a pretty solid hitter (excellent this year) and a great clubhouse presence. I hope they re-up, but my guess is he’s too costly.
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