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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2019 9:08:09 GMT -5
Prado was a guy I’d been watching all season cuz I love me some hit tool CFs. He really seemed like “a guy” to me. I was pretty bummed that they traded him, but I love the trade. They *need* starting pitching (as opposed to a quality RP, which I think is a luxury), and even if Cashner is just so-so (roughly his career-avg), he’s a guaranteed certainty to be better than what they’ve trotted out. It’s almost impossible for him to not improve the team (hell, tonight’s win might’ve been worth it alone...and I’m only half-kidding). And with the velo bump from last year (sitting 91-93 to 93-94), ditching the sinker (which had been bad), suppressing HR (maybe real?)...he’s got actual upside. Like, *real* upside. He functionally shut down a great offense tonight, and pitched deep doing it. Like Jimed said...he could be the 4 come playoff time. He’s pitched to good #3 level this year. If he keeps that up (or gets amped up to be actually playing for something, and actually steps it up)...that’s a helluva guy to slot into your 5 position. Maybe he’s a pillow contract for next year. Or he’s so good he prices himself out of the Sox’s territory. And as sad as I am to see Prado go (20 bb, 21 k...tough to watch leave), it’s 5 years at best and more like 7 til we would’ve seen him. That’s a gamble you take. Cashner also has a team option for next year for $10M. If he continues to pitch effectively, I can see that getting picked up and Cashner sliding into Porcello's spot next year. It's a vesting option, not team option. It vests at 340, it becomes a player option at 360.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2019 9:18:26 GMT -5
The 10 million dollar vesting option is almost impossible for Cashner to reach.
He would need to make 12 more starts and average just over 6 innings a start.
Cashner is okay, but he's not going to be averaging 6 innings a start. His short season last year killed his chances of him getting that option.
That's probably good news for Cashner. He might get double that money if he keeps being a backend rotation guy the rest of the year.
I don't know if I want Cashner at 10 million dollars either. That's not great value. He could turn back into a pumpkin by next year. I'm really okay with what he gives the Sox the rest of the way through. It will be valuable.
Add- Cashner has been averaging just under 6 innings a start this year. 5 2/3 innings per start. Just under. Yeah, all math points to him being a free agent next year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2019 9:40:02 GMT -5
Cashner is currently projected to go 11 starts the rest of the way through the season. That option is basically a afterthought.
He isn't getting to that option.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2019 10:21:11 GMT -5
It's a vesting option, not team option. It vests at 340, it becomes a player option at 360. Baseball Reference has it listed on his player page as a team option that vests under those conditions. Thought I saw the same thing on Cot's Baseball Contracts, but that site isn't working for me right now. Do you happen to have a link to where the parameters are outlined? Would be curious to see. Regardless, I'm not expecting huge things from Cashner at all, but $10M doesn't buy you much in the way of starting pitching these days. If they have the option to pick up a 1-year $10M contract for a starter that's not a bad way to go, but I'm not concerned one way or the other. www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/02/orioles-sign-andrew-cashner.htmlIt's a vesting option only at 340 innings. It becomes a player option only at 360 innings. No team option available.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,067
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Post by cdj on Jul 28, 2019 9:08:03 GMT -5
The way I look at it he has to be historically good to make that option vest
If that’s the case then I’d be ok with it lol
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 28, 2019 14:42:16 GMT -5
The article doesn't definitively say that he's a free agent if he doesn't hit his 340 innings, calls it a "vesting option" but doesn't explicitly state what happens if it doesn't vest. I can't find anything else that says he's definitely a free agent after this year or not, but I'm inclined to believe Baseball Reference calling it a team option below the 340 innings threshold. www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/andrew-cashner-7263/Three different places all say this and if an option doesn't vest or the player doesn't pick it up you are a free agent. Only Baseball Reference says it's a team option, which it isn't because 360 plus and it's a player option. So I wouldn't believe Baseball Reference.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 7, 2019 5:10:01 GMT -5
Absolutely no reason what soever to keep this guy on the team. The Red Sox should waive him. Maybe they get lucky & someone claims him & they end up saving a little money. Plenty of pitchers in the system they can start in his place for the remainder of the season.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 7, 2019 10:45:48 GMT -5
Absolutely no reason what soever to keep this guy on the team. The Red Sox should waive him. Maybe they get lucky & someone claims him & they end up saving a little money. Plenty of pitchers in the system they can start in his place for the remainder of the season. Who would start in his place? Would it be the worst thing in the world to have Darwinzon starting games again and stretching him out or has the organization completely given up on him starting?
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Post by jbuttah on Aug 7, 2019 11:05:32 GMT -5
Absolutely no reason what soever to keep this guy on the team. The Red Sox should waive him. Maybe they get lucky & someone claims him & they end up saving a little money. Plenty of pitchers in the system they can start in his place for the remainder of the season. Who would start in his place? Would it be the worst thing in the world to have Darwinzon starting games again and stretching him out or has the organization completely given up on him starting? I think he's the future closer for this team.
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hank
Rookie
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Post by hank on Aug 7, 2019 12:02:00 GMT -5
Cashner stinks
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 7, 2019 12:28:54 GMT -5
Absolutely no reason what soever to keep this guy on the team. The Red Sox should waive him. Maybe they get lucky & someone claims him & they end up saving a little money. Plenty of pitchers in the system they can start in his place for the remainder of the season. Who would start in his place?Would it be the worst thing in the world to have Darwinzon starting games again and stretching him out or has the organization completely given up on him starting? Anybody Brian Johnson Hector Velázquez Mike Shawaryn Denyi Reyes Steven Wright? Josh Smith Give them a couple starts each.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 7, 2019 12:46:25 GMT -5
Who would start in his place?Would it be the worst thing in the world to have Darwinzon starting games again and stretching him out or has the organization completely given up on him starting? Anybody Brian Johnson Hector Velázquez Mike Shawaryn Denyi Reyes Steven Wright? Josh Smith Give them a couple starts each. Wright's not likely pitching the rest of the season. And frankly what difference does it make if you give the ball to Cashner or any of those guys listed above? Only Reyes has a shot at being a starter in the majors for the Red Sox (#5 starter) and would make any sense. I mean does it really matter if if's Cashner getting bombed every 5th day or any of the guys above? Hate to say it, but likely Reyes would get whacked around too. I mean at this point, you're talking about rearranging deck chairs on board the Titanic.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 7, 2019 12:59:52 GMT -5
Fine, rearrange the deck chairs. Just get Cashner out of Boston
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 7, 2019 13:35:34 GMT -5
Fine, rearrange the deck chairs. Just get Cashner out of Boston What difference does it make if he's gone now or at the end of this lost season? It's not like they have better alternatives. It's not like watching Brian Johnson or Hector Velazquez is a thrilling proposition. It's like you pick out a guy to loathe, spout off about him, and forget that there are other guys who are just as lousy if not more so. Why don't you publish your list of "THESE ARE THE GUYS ON THE RED SOX I TOTALLY CAN'T STAND. Play anybody else (little league applicants welcome) please!" We certainly know who's #1 on your list. At least Cashner COULD pitch better - he has all year. Can you say that about anybody else on that list? And again would it matter either way? No, you really can't. I mean if you think he sucks that much and the season is shot, then maybe Cashner can help the Red Sox net a better position in the June draft. What a screwed up year - I'm freaking defending Andrew Cashner, a pitcher I never particularly cared for, and who I think is a mediocre pitcher to be kind.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 7, 2019 14:26:03 GMT -5
Fine, rearrange the deck chairs. Just get Cashner out of Boston What a screwed up year - I'm freaking defending Andrew Cashner, a pitcher I never particularly cared for, and who I think is a mediocre pitcher to be kind. Agreed. To think, at the start of the year I honestly thought this team had "5 number 1s" or at least 4 guys with that potential and E-Rod. As it turns out, everyone was terrible and E-Rod was the best of the lot. Now we're left debating which garbage pitcher is better to run out the string against the other garbage options. I would like to see Darwinzon start, unless they know he's the future closer.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2019 17:19:11 GMT -5
The difference between Cashner and every other possible replacement on the roster is that Cashner can pitch innings. No one else can. So once again, dmaineah is 100% wrong for the hundredth time.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 7, 2019 17:31:05 GMT -5
The difference between Cashner and every other possible replacement on the roster is that Cashner can pitch innings. No one else can. So once again, dmaineah is 100% wrong for the hundredth time. If Mata was knocking on the door, it would make sense to let him get his feet wet instead of giving the ball to Cashner, sure, but that's not the case. Mata still needs more minor league experience as does Reyes who is nowhere near the prospect Mata is. The rest of those guys on the list are either injured or even worse options - like you said, cannot eat up innings. His list reminds me of the movie "Major League" where the owner is reading off a list of scrubs and when somebody says "But that guy is dead" she says, "Well cross him off the list then" All the guy does is complain about his least favorite players even though he has no real alternatives. It's like on WEEI when the caller says, "Well this guy sucks. Bring up the 14 year old from A ball. There's no possible way he could be any worse" and then they do, the guy sucks even worse, and the same caller is back six weeks later complaining about the new guy and how anybody else can do better.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2019 17:34:36 GMT -5
All Cashner has to do is stop giving up 3 home runs a game to be decent. And he did it in Baltimore for quite awhile. If anyone has any ideas of how to prevent home runs now, I'm all ears. And I bet every team in the league is also interested.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 7, 2019 17:40:37 GMT -5
The difference between Cashner and every other possible replacement on the roster is that Cashner can pitch innings. No one else can. So once again, dmaineah is 100% wrong for the hundredth time. If Mata was knocking on the door, it would make sense to let him get his feet wet instead of giving the ball to Cashner, sure, but that's not the case. Mata still needs more minor league experience as does Reyes who is nowhere near the prospect Mata is. The rest of those guys on the list are either injured or even worse options - like you said, cannot eat up innings. His list reminds me of the movie "Major League" where the owner is reading off a list of scrubs and when somebody says "But that guy is dead" she says, "Well cross him off the list then" All the guy does is complain about his least favorite players even though he has no real alternatives. It's like on WEEI when the caller says, "Well this guy sucks. Bring up the 14 year old from A ball. There's no possible way he could be any worse" and then they do, the guy sucks even worse, and the same caller is back six weeks later complaining about the new guy and how anybody else can do better. Mata is pretty close to his innings limit so that would be borderline criminal so I agree. I also wouldn't want to put him on the 40 man earlier than he needs to be. Those 40 man spots become very valuable over the winter.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 8, 2019 22:58:04 GMT -5
Posts that show a lack of understanding of the difference between personal attacks and attacks on a poster's opinions have been and will continue to be deleted.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 12, 2019 17:11:34 GMT -5
Who would start in his place?Would it be the worst thing in the world to have Darwinzon starting games again and stretching him out or has the organization completely given up on him starting? Anybody Brian Johnson Hector Velázquez Mike Shawaryn Denyi Reyes Steven Wright? Josh Smith Give them a couple starts each. Apologies to dmaineah now that Cashner is in the bullpen. I guess they're going with, "anybody".
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 12, 2019 17:21:29 GMT -5
here to say that it wasn't DD's fault the guy pitched terribly, it was Cashner's fault.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,067
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Post by cdj on Aug 12, 2019 22:45:18 GMT -5
here to say that it wasn't DD's fault the guy pitched terribly, it was Cashner's fault. Not like the bar was set all that high for him either What a dumpster fire of a pitcher Doesn’t miss bats- doesn’t throw strikes isn’t a good combo
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 13, 2019 8:47:03 GMT -5
here to say that it wasn't DD's fault the guy pitched terribly, it was Cashner's fault. Not like the bar was set all that high for him either What a dumpster fire of a pitcher Doesn’t miss bats- doesn’t throw strikes isn’t a good combo He threw strikes in Baltimore. I don't know what changed.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 13, 2019 9:03:00 GMT -5
Boston is not Baltimore. This to me is another example - we've seen many through the years - that there is a mental side of baseball. The pressure of playing in places like NY and Boston is different - some players can't take the challenge (Crawford, anyone? So many examples through the years). Cashner just may not be cut out for pressure and bright spotlights and intense attention and media.
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