SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
7/30-8/1 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
|
Post by manfred on Aug 2, 2019 10:26:00 GMT -5
JBJ is a big reason we won the ALCS last year, lest we forget. Yes, he was. He didn't really hit well. He just drove the ball every time he connected which usually had runners on. It was great what he did, but it's as much a future indicator of success as Steve Pearce. This would be fairer if it was a fluke. But JBJ had three good years in a row coming into this season. He’s 29. One could more easily say a down year is not much of a future indicator of failure.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 2, 2019 10:30:34 GMT -5
By the way, it seems like the FO deserves more credit for extending Xander to what is now way below market value. That could pay huge dividends in the future with money freed for other pieces.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2019 10:31:23 GMT -5
Yes, he was. He didn't really hit well. He just drove the ball every time he connected which usually had runners on. It was great what he did, but it's as much a future indicator of success as Steve Pearce. This would be fairer if it was a fluke. But JBJ had three good years in a row coming into this season. He’s 29. One could more easily say a down year is not much of a future indicator of failure. His OPS the last 3 years: .726 .717 .714 In 2015-2016 he was very good .832 .835
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 2, 2019 10:56:01 GMT -5
This would be fairer if it was a fluke. But JBJ had three good years in a row coming into this season. He’s 29. One could more easily say a down year is not much of a future indicator of failure. His OPS the last 3 years: .726 .717 .714 In 2015-2016 he was very good .832 .835 WAR last 3 years: 5.5, 3, 2.1. A 10.5 WAR guy over 3 years seems pretty solid to me.and that last.... 2.1... he had the same oWAR as the previous year but got shafted on dWAR (he won a GG, for god’s sake). So even if it looks like a decline, it is steadier than it appears.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2019 11:09:20 GMT -5
His OPS the last 3 years: .726 .717 .714 In 2015-2016 he was very good .832 .835 WAR last 3 years: 5.5, 3, 2.1. A 10.5 WAR guy over 3 years seems pretty solid to me.and that last.... 2.1... he had the same oWAR as the previous year but got shafted on dWAR (he won a GG, for god’s sake). So even if it looks like a decline, it is steadier than it appears. Without looking at the numbers, I'd imagine his WAR was more heavily weighted towards his defense because he's hitting roughly the same. I think I heard he's worth negative runs saved this year so the defensive side of his game has taken a hit.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 2, 2019 11:19:43 GMT -5
WAR last 3 years: 5.5, 3, 2.1. A 10.5 WAR guy over 3 years seems pretty solid to me.and that last.... 2.1... he had the same oWAR as the previous year but got shafted on dWAR (he won a GG, for god’s sake). So even if it looks like a decline, it is steadier than it appears. Without looking at the numbers, I'd imagine his WAR was more heavily weighted towards his defense because he's hitting roughly the same. I think I heard he's worth negative runs saved this year so the defensive side of his game has taken a hit. 2016: bWAR 5.5. (oWAR 4.3; dWAR 1.6) 2017: bWAR 3.0 (oWAR 2.0; dWAR 1.4) 2018: bWAR 2.1 (oWAR 2.0; dWAR 0.4) This season, baseball reference has him at 0.0 dWAR! He has had some shaky moments, but c’mon.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 2, 2019 11:32:37 GMT -5
So we should go for broke on a 5% bet, but the Sox are headed for disaster in 2020 and beyond so we shouldn't even worry about the future at all. Got it. The fact that they're losing is only undermining your point. If they had just taken two off three you could say "look they're fine." What? The fact that they're losing is exactly my point. This series was... not quite devastating, but a really big blow to their chances. So yeah, if they'd won 2 of 3 they'd be in much better position, and making a bet on that (in the form of trading prospects) would have made a lot more sense.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Aug 2, 2019 11:43:37 GMT -5
Yeah, just realized in today's game that this season has been one of the worsts as a Sox fan, right after one of the best seasons in 2018. Just to wrap things up- -You started a 31 year old journeyman starting pitcher versus a young phenom for the Rays (no wonder why that didn't start well). -You told a kid to do something he's never done before in Darwinzon (pitch 3 games in a row), for no other reason than, you had no choice and you needed him to get a LHB in the crucial part of a game. Feel bad for the kid, hope it doesn't kill his confidence or his ability to keep throwing strikes out of the bullpen. -You keep putting in a AAAA pitcher in Brewer who doesn't belong here, because there weren't many options left and you basically had to when you were behind. He'll be on the roster tomorrow because you have no one better until Brian Johnson arrives. He's been on the roster for basically the whole year. -You pitched a hurt reliever on back to back nights in Hembree, and you haven't put him in the IL, even though you know something is wrong. -You got swept by the one team you had to beat. -The worst part is your front office quit on this team. -They played catch up all year, didn't take spring training seriously. The starting rotation has underperformed. The bullpen has minimal talent. The lineup can't figure out how to get a guy home from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Ohh and the defense and sloppy baserunning pops up every now and again. Am I missing anything? Yeah, I'm probably going to take a week off of talking baseball. I'm not going to keep worrying about the Sox dumb problems. This was all self inflicted wounds from the Sox. I'll watch and listen to this burn to the ground with my popcorn in hand. Definitely reminded me of the times before 2004. Can't turn away because I don't watch anything else on TV, until football and basketball are on. So here's to it!! A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge?
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2019 14:06:07 GMT -5
Yeah, just realized in today's game that this season has been one of the worsts as a Sox fan, right after one of the best seasons in 2018. Just to wrap things up- -You started a 31 year old journeyman starting pitcher versus a young phenom for the Rays (no wonder why that didn't start well). -You told a kid to do something he's never done before in Darwinzon (pitch 3 games in a row), for no other reason than, you had no choice and you needed him to get a LHB in the crucial part of a game. Feel bad for the kid, hope it doesn't kill his confidence or his ability to keep throwing strikes out of the bullpen. -You keep putting in a AAAA pitcher in Brewer who doesn't belong here, because there weren't many options left and you basically had to when you were behind. He'll be on the roster tomorrow because you have no one better until Brian Johnson arrives. He's been on the roster for basically the whole year. -You pitched a hurt reliever on back to back nights in Hembree, and you haven't put him in the IL, even though you know something is wrong. -You got swept by the one team you had to beat. -The worst part is your front office quit on this team. -They played catch up all year, didn't take spring training seriously. The starting rotation has underperformed. The bullpen has minimal talent. The lineup can't figure out how to get a guy home from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Ohh and the defense and sloppy baserunning pops up every now and again. Am I missing anything? Yeah, I'm probably going to take a week off of talking baseball. I'm not going to keep worrying about the Sox dumb problems. This was all self inflicted wounds from the Sox. I'll watch and listen to this burn to the ground with my popcorn in hand. Definitely reminded me of the times before 2004. Can't turn away because I don't watch anything else on TV, until football and basketball are on. So here's to it!! A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? I think he means in terms of expectations. Chicken and beer and the Bobby Valentine years were bad, but this year the Red Sox came into the season coming off 108 and a WS with virtually the same team. They never made a push for the division and made the whole season an uphill climb with that horrendous start. Like, I couldn't even get 2-3 weeks in April feeling like this team could win the division. Its just been one long crap show. They showed sparks of maybe contending again, but then the floor would just kick out from underneath. With the chicken and beer, at least you could enjoy the playoff race and being in the driver's seat for most of the year. With 2014, they did so bad that they could sell at the deadline and there was some fun in seeing what they could get via trade. The Red Sox didn't buy or sell and essentially are just playing out the string. It's an exciting young nucleus that was let down by their pitching from top to bottom.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2019 14:18:39 GMT -5
A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? I think he means in terms of expectations. Chicken and beer and the Bobby Valentine years were bad, but this year the Red Sox came into the season coming off 108 and a WS with virtually the same team. They never made a push for the division and made the whole season an uphill climb with that horrendous start. Like, I couldn't even get 2-3 weeks in April feeling like this team could win the division. Its just been one long crap show. They showed sparks of maybe contending again, but then the floor would just kick out from underneath. With the chicken and beer, at least you could enjoy the playoff race and being in the driver's seat for most of the year. With 2014, they did so bad that they could sell at the deadline and there was some fun in seeing what they could get via trade. The Red Sox didn't buy or sell and essentially are just playing out the string. It's an exciting young nucleus that was let down by their pitching from top to bottom. I look at it this way. The Red Sox never had true 108 win talent in 2018. That was the most extreme case of everything that could have went right went right. And I think in some cases that happens. I remember the 1986 Mets. I thought they'd be a dynasty with that pitching, but they never replicated that 108 win season and the post-season magic they had that year. There was no wild card the next year (to be fair) and they missed the playoffs in 1987 - the Cards finished ahead of them and you wouldn't have expected that. They did win the division in 1988 but were beaten by an inferior Dodgers team. They added Frank Viola the following year, but it didn't matter....that Mets core was never a factor again. 1984 was the year of the Tigers. Yeah it was an aging core, but in 1984 the Tigers started off 35-5, went wire-to-wire, swept a weak KC Royals team in the ALCS and then knocked off the Padres with ease in the World Series. They stumbled backward for a couple of years - big fall-off in 1985, had one last hurrah, nipping Toronto at the end of the season in 1987, held a lead in mid-season 1988, and then collapsed and were awful the rest of the century. The 1986 Mets and 1984 Tigers were iconic teams of their time and they couldn't maintain that success the following season(s). The 2016 Cubs are kind of like the 2018 Red Sox, the best in baseball, the year everything came together, but they have yet to be as successful since then. I think the Red Sox of 2018 are more like those two teams than the 1998 Yankees who declined (how don't you after winning 125?) the next couple of seasons but picked up a couple of championships along the way. The 1975, 108 win, Champions Reds repeated in 1976, and the Orioles won 108 and the WS in 1970 a year after winning 109 and losing and winning 101 in 1971 and losing the Series again. I guess what it shows is that it's pretty common for teams that have it be so much their year to the extreme to fall back hard the following season. I thought the Sox would win 95 and be a playoff team and it appears they'll be even less than that, unfortunately, so it's disappointing, but it's not as bad as those other years, like 2012, when they were totally unwatchable. This season does have that 2010 vibe where they felt out of it in August even though they weren't an awful team, and they weren't that far behind.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 2, 2019 14:28:49 GMT -5
We knew at the start repeating is hard. We are witnessing that reality.
|
|
|
Post by station13 on Aug 2, 2019 14:51:44 GMT -5
We knew at the start repeating is hard. We are witnessing that reality. Did they even try? Last off season they let their closer walk. That has been an issue all year and came the deadline and went without fixing it. The MFY added to their 100 wins team, we didn't.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2019 14:54:53 GMT -5
We knew at the start repeating is hard. We are witnessing that reality. Did they even try? Last off season they let their closer walk. That has been an issue all year and came the deadline and went without fixing it. The MFY added to their 100 wins team, we didn't. Didn't add during the deadline though which is very jarring. They have no rotation.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 15:20:20 GMT -5
Yeah, just realized in today's game that this season has been one of the worsts as a Sox fan, right after one of the best seasons in 2018. Just to wrap things up- -You started a 31 year old journeyman starting pitcher versus a young phenom for the Rays (no wonder why that didn't start well). -You told a kid to do something he's never done before in Darwinzon (pitch 3 games in a row), for no other reason than, you had no choice and you needed him to get a LHB in the crucial part of a game. Feel bad for the kid, hope it doesn't kill his confidence or his ability to keep throwing strikes out of the bullpen. -You keep putting in a AAAA pitcher in Brewer who doesn't belong here, because there weren't many options left and you basically had to when you were behind. He'll be on the roster tomorrow because you have no one better until Brian Johnson arrives. He's been on the roster for basically the whole year. -You pitched a hurt reliever on back to back nights in Hembree, and you haven't put him in the IL, even though you know something is wrong. -You got swept by the one team you had to beat. -The worst part is your front office quit on this team. -They played catch up all year, didn't take spring training seriously. The starting rotation has underperformed. The bullpen has minimal talent. The lineup can't figure out how to get a guy home from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Ohh and the defense and sloppy baserunning pops up every now and again. Am I missing anything? Yeah, I'm probably going to take a week off of talking baseball. I'm not going to keep worrying about the Sox dumb problems. This was all self inflicted wounds from the Sox. I'll watch and listen to this burn to the ground with my popcorn in hand. Definitely reminded me of the times before 2004. Can't turn away because I don't watch anything else on TV, until football and basketball are on. So here's to it!! A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? I mean, since you want to bring up you know personal, non baseball reasons why I'm walking away for a bit. Let's discuss. I'm a goldfish? No. I'm a guy who had 1000 dollars to my name, got a license in a month. At my most crucial point of my life, I actually came up just as big as anyone in my life. 3 years later, I bought a house and had plenty of savings even after. No I'm walking away from baseball because it's a form of entertainment. They aren't very entertaining. The Sox has had one of the most dissapointing falls from one year to the next that I have ever seen. The quit from the front office, all the way down to the underperformance on the field. Yeah, best to walk away and not take this season as seriously from this point on. Hey there's always next year!! That's the one thing you can count on every year with baseball.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2019 15:28:34 GMT -5
A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? No. I'm a guy who had 1000 dollars to my name, got a license in a month, bought a house a year and a half later. Drug dealing? Kidding.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 15:31:46 GMT -5
No. I'm a guy who had 1000 dollars to my name, got a license in a month, bought a house a year and a half later. Drug dealing? Kidding. Nah, but I'm literally hauling a bomb strapped to my back every day. So that's fun lol.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 2, 2019 15:40:18 GMT -5
Nah, but I'm literally hauling a bomb strapped to my back every day. So that's fun lol. That sounds stressful lol
|
|
|
Post by fenwaydouble on Aug 2, 2019 15:43:12 GMT -5
Yeah, just realized in today's game that this season has been one of the worsts as a Sox fan, right after one of the best seasons in 2018. Just to wrap things up- -You started a 31 year old journeyman starting pitcher versus a young phenom for the Rays (no wonder why that didn't start well). -You told a kid to do something he's never done before in Darwinzon (pitch 3 games in a row), for no other reason than, you had no choice and you needed him to get a LHB in the crucial part of a game. Feel bad for the kid, hope it doesn't kill his confidence or his ability to keep throwing strikes out of the bullpen. -You keep putting in a AAAA pitcher in Brewer who doesn't belong here, because there weren't many options left and you basically had to when you were behind. He'll be on the roster tomorrow because you have no one better until Brian Johnson arrives. He's been on the roster for basically the whole year. -You pitched a hurt reliever on back to back nights in Hembree, and you haven't put him in the IL, even though you know something is wrong. -You got swept by the one team you had to beat. -The worst part is your front office quit on this team. -They played catch up all year, didn't take spring training seriously. The starting rotation has underperformed. The bullpen has minimal talent. The lineup can't figure out how to get a guy home from 3rd with less than 2 outs. Ohh and the defense and sloppy baserunning pops up every now and again. Am I missing anything? Yeah, I'm probably going to take a week off of talking baseball. I'm not going to keep worrying about the Sox dumb problems. This was all self inflicted wounds from the Sox. I'll watch and listen to this burn to the ground with my popcorn in hand. Definitely reminded me of the times before 2004. Can't turn away because I don't watch anything else on TV, until football and basketball are on. So here's to it!! A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? I try not to hold people's frustrations against them. Mostly I'm just shocked that people who are predisposed to getting really upset about regular season losses don't quit being baseball fans. It must just be awful.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Aug 2, 2019 16:18:30 GMT -5
A season in which they're 8 games above .500 and competing for a wild card spot is one of the worst you can remember as a Red Sox fan? What are you, a goldfish? Here is a list of obviously worse seasons this decade: 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 The way people react to losing a baseball game around here sometimes makes me wonder how they deal with adversity in their own lives. Do you all just throw up your hands and quit whenever you face a challenge? I try not to hold people's frustrations against them. Mostly I'm just shocked that people who are predisposed to getting really upset about regular season losses don't quit being baseball fans. It must just be awful. I don't know when baseball got to this point. So many of these types of fans now. I would have killed myself 1000 times by now if I felt that same way about baseball for my entire life. It's just a game that's really hard to win regularly. And when you do win, absolutely everything has to go right and half of those things are out of the team's control.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 16:28:31 GMT -5
I try not to hold people's frustrations against them. Mostly I'm just shocked that people who are predisposed to getting really upset about regular season losses don't quit being baseball fans. It must just be awful. I don't know when baseball got to this point. So many of these types of fans now. I would have killed myself 1000 times by now if I felt that same way about baseball for my entire life. It's just a game that's really hard to win regularly. And when you do win, absolutely everything has to go right and half of those things are out of the team's control. What type of fans? Like I expected the Sox to win a world series every year before 2004 too. Fans have expectations, unless you're a small market fan base, who goes to games just to pre game. I couldn't be a fan of a small market team unless I drank heavily too. I'm only trying to give space to not make the board misserable, despite this team playing miserably. I'll be listening to the end.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 16:36:51 GMT -5
Nah, but I'm literally hauling a bomb strapped to my back every day. So that's fun lol. That sounds stressful lol It is stressful. Try not to let it carry over into other parts of my life, but I'm only human.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2019 16:39:26 GMT -5
I don't know when baseball got to this point. So many of these types of fans now. I would have killed myself 1000 times by now if I felt that same way about baseball for my entire life. It's just a game that's really hard to win regularly. And when you do win, absolutely everything has to go right and half of those things are out of the team's control. What type of fans? Like I expected the Sox to win a world series every year before 2004 too. Fans have expectations, unless you're a small market fan base, who goes to games just to pre game. I couldn't be a fan of a small market team unless I drank heavily too. I'm only trying to give space to not make the board misserable, despite this team playing miserably. I'll be listening to the end. I hope for the Sox to win every year. I don't expect it to, because you'll be disappointed and angry a lot more often than happy. Even the Yankees didn't win a WS more often than they did. My only baseball dream left is to watch the Sox win the Series with my son. Last year was the perfect chance but my wife put the kibosh on me waking him up at 11pm on a school night. I hope I get that chance. The way I'll look at this season is that the Red Sox are giving me a financial break from paying an obscene amount of money to decorate my shrine room, which between the Red Sox and Patriots, is rapidly running out of space. Pedro, 2019 will recede from the memory pretty quickly. There won't be any 1986, 2003, or 2011 pain attached to it.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 16:57:45 GMT -5
What type of fans? Like I expected the Sox to win a world series every year before 2004 too. Fans have expectations, unless you're a small market fan base, who goes to games just to pre game. I couldn't be a fan of a small market team unless I drank heavily too. I'm only trying to give space to not make the board misserable, despite this team playing miserably. I'll be listening to the end. I hope for the Sox to win every year. I don't expect it to, because you'll be disappointed and angry a lot more often than happy. Even the Yankees didn't win a WS more often than they did. My only baseball dream left is to watch the Sox win the Series with my son. Last year was the perfect chance but my wife put the kibosh on me waking him up at 11pm on a school night. I hope I get that chance. The way I'll look at this season is that the Red Sox are giving me a financial break from paying an obscene amount of money to decorate my shrine room, which between the Red Sox and Patriots, is rapidly running out of space. Pedro, 2019 will recede from the memory pretty quickly. There won't be any 1986, 2003, or 2011 pain attached to it. Yeah, I mean there are years where you can't realistically win. Like in 2015, when you're building to get to that point, but every year they're contending, I expect them to win. To quote my man Tom Brady- "You know which championship I look forward to? The next one." I hope to see a Sox dynasty at some point in my lifetime. After all, the Sox are America's original and first dynasty sports team. It would be fitting from my perspective.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Aug 2, 2019 17:12:34 GMT -5
There aren't going to be any more dynasties in baseball. They've rigged the league for parity and there's way too much luck involved between evenly matched teams. So you'll spend the rest of your life angry. Look at how many championships playoff games the Tom Brady of baseball has won. (Mike Trout)
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 2, 2019 17:14:45 GMT -5
There aren't going to be any more dynasties in baseball. They've rigged the league for parity and there's way too much luck involved between evenly matched teams. So you'll spend the rest of your life angry. Or just mildly dissapointed. The Astros have a great shot at being the next dynasty in baseball the next 2 years after winning in 2017. So never say never. You just have to be smarter than everyone else.
|
|
|