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Post by Canseco on Dec 10, 2019 19:26:20 GMT -5
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 10, 2019 19:39:59 GMT -5
i think if the Sox ate 24 of the 96 remaining, they could get a lot of people involved.
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Post by Canseco on Dec 10, 2019 19:43:48 GMT -5
Moving Price and Martinez would free up some flexibility, to be sure.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 10, 2019 19:58:57 GMT -5
Moving Price and Martinez would free up some flexibility, to be sure. And leave 2 massive holes to fill. Not saying it's a bad idea, but there are consequences. Hard to believe they'd do both.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,765
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Post by mobaz on Dec 10, 2019 20:21:46 GMT -5
Removing Price and Bradley is potentially viable but ERod and Evo need to hit their 80th percentile outcomes for the team to be successful.
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Post by kevfc89 on Dec 10, 2019 20:24:57 GMT -5
so, someone posted on Angels reddit hours before the Cozart trade was reported that Cozart would be traded to the Giants and the Angels are out on Cole and will trade for Price....hmm
https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/e8u0de/out_on_cole/
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2019 20:31:05 GMT -5
so, someone posted on Angels reddit hours before the Cozart trade was reported that Cozart would be traded to the Giants and the Angels are out on Cole and will trade for Price....hmm https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/e8u0de/out_on_cole/ FWIW, I could see that. It's plausible. I do think NYY wind up with Cole and that Price could be a "consolation" prize. The Red Sox might have to staple Michael Chavis to Price to make the money work so that they have enough money to actually get anybody(s) of consequence. I know Benintendi has been mentioned but I don't see the Sox parting ways with Benni. Chavis has been playing 2b, but with Bogaerts below average defensively it's hard to improve defensively with Chavis at 2b, so he'd like play 1b, which is a position a similar type player Dalbec can occupy, so it seems to me it's most likely if the Sox have to include anybody, it would be Chavis. Of course JBJ probably goes to and what does that leave the Sox with $ to improve themselves? I would imagine they bring back Porcello? They need five guys who can throw innings. And a CF and a 2b (Holt?).
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on Dec 10, 2019 22:06:02 GMT -5
so, someone posted on Angels reddit hours before the Cozart trade was reported that Cozart would be traded to the Giants and the Angels are out on Cole and will trade for Price....hmm https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/e8u0de/out_on_cole/ FWIW, I could see that. It's plausible. I do think NYY wind up with Cole and that Price could be a "consolation" prize. The Red Sox might have to staple Michael Chavis to Price to make the money work so that they have enough money to actually get anybody(s) of consequence. I know Benintendi has been mentioned but I don't see the Sox parting ways with Benni. Chavis has been playing 2b, but with Bogaerts below average defensively it's hard to improve defensively with Chavis at 2b, so he'd like play 1b, which is a position a similar type player Dalbec can occupy, so it seems to me it's most likely if the Sox have to include anybody, it would be Chavis. Of course JBJ probably goes to and what does that leave the Sox with $ to improve themselves? I would imagine they bring back Porcello? They need five guys who can throw innings. And a CF and a 2b (Holt?). I could see the Angels being out on Cole, in on Rendon and trading for Price if the Sox eat some of the salary to get them out of the 30mil per year range.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2019 22:10:25 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that I'm on the record that wasting Mookie's last season of control on a throw-away season is a huge f'ing waste. Especially when they won't get nearly enough in a trade to throw the season away.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2019 22:28:47 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that everyone knows that I'm on the record that wasting Mookie's last season of control on a throw-away season is a huge f'ing waste. Especially when they won't get nearly enough in a trade to throw the season away. Well, I hadn't jotted it down yet, but here it goes: jimed14 on 12/10/19: "I'm on the record that wasting Mookie's last season of control on a throw-away season is a huge f'ing waste; Especially when they won't get nearly enough in a trade to throw the season away." Ok. Got it. And yes. If it's more important to save money than to put the best product on the field as possible that can legitimately beat NY and/or TB, then yes, it is a waste of Mookie's final year of control. At that point they might as well deal Mookie and try to dump JDM. Because if Gammons is right and Mookie is a goner after 2020 (he must be talking to one of Theo's pals still left in the organization who doesn't feel optimistic that Mookie wants to stay beyond 2020) and JDM opts out once his contract can be beaten on the open market, there's another 55 million or so dollars that they're free of. Of course they'd be freed of their two best hitters....but they'd be no threat to go over the luxury tax limit in 2021. If that's the case might as well go for what they can get. Of course if their replacements are inadequate and the Sox aren't in the Wild Card race by July 2020 then both Mookie and JDM get dealt anyways for whatever beats their draft compensation. I'm not quite there yet, but if they get nothing of substance in deals for JBJ and Price and they can't even pick the best of the bargain basement but rather have to wait for everybody else to pick through first and settle for what's left, then yeah, might as well punt the season and get what they can get.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2019 22:30:57 GMT -5
It's either punt the season completely or don't punt it all. Everything else is a huge mistake.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 10, 2019 22:34:41 GMT -5
so, someone posted on Angels reddit hours before the Cozart trade was reported that Cozart would be traded to the Giants and the Angels are out on Cole and will trade for Price....hmm https://www.reddit.com/r/angelsbaseball/comments/e8u0de/out_on_cole/ FWIW, I could see that. It's plausible. I do think NYY wind up with Cole and that Price could be a "consolation" prize. The Red Sox might have to staple Michael Chavis to Price to make the money work so that they have enough money to actually get anybody(s) of consequence.... Of course JBJ probably goes to and what does that leave the Sox with $ to improve themselves? I would imagine they bring back Porcello? They need five guys who can throw innings. And a CF and a 2b (Holt?). So, roll into 2020 with the same guys as last year, but minus Price, Chavis, and Bradley (but plus a CFer who is presumably cheaper than Bradley)? Gonna quote myself here: Read more: forum.soxprospects.com/user/1645/recent#ixzz67lX7PVje
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2019 22:35:55 GMT -5
Until the Red Sox make a single move, I'm not going to assume anything one way or another. I really cannot fathom a season where they cut payroll in Mookie's final season of control when they are so close to winning.
The lone exception would be where they are obviously significantly better in a season or 3. And that has an expected chance of happening of 0.0%.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2019 22:36:58 GMT -5
It's either punt the season completely or don't punt it all. Everything else is a huge mistake. Then Bloom better replicate the offseason Theo had in 2002-2003. Of course the only contract that he opted to dump that year was Uggie Urbina and Cliff Floyd. Not quite what Bloom is dealing with this year. I think they can deal JBJ and survive if they can get a cheap bat whose offense makes up for the decrease in defense. And they can even survive the loss of Price if they pick wisely on the bargain rack - maybe they sign Tijuan Walker, he gets healthy and effective, and Price is replaced? Of course they need Sale and Eovaldi to be healthy and effective and they have to also replace Porcello's innings as well. Honestly I think the best they can do is break even on the field for less money, which gives them a chance, but if they don't pick wisely or Sale and Eovaldi repeat their 2019 seasons, it's going to be tough to envision a realistic scenario where they are neck and neck with TB and NY.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2019 22:40:59 GMT -5
FWIW, I could see that. It's plausible. I do think NYY wind up with Cole and that Price could be a "consolation" prize. The Red Sox might have to staple Michael Chavis to Price to make the money work so that they have enough money to actually get anybody(s) of consequence.... Of course JBJ probably goes to and what does that leave the Sox with $ to improve themselves? I would imagine they bring back Porcello? They need five guys who can throw innings. And a CF and a 2b (Holt?). So, roll into 2020 with the same guys as last year, but minus Price, Chavis, and Bradley (but plus a CFer who is presumably cheaper than Bradley)? Gonna quote myself here: Read more: forum.soxprospects.com/user/1645/recent#ixzz67lX7PVjeYou're quoting me, but it's not my logic. This is John Henry's logic. I could access Speier's article but I get the gist of it is that the Sox will lose a ton of $ if they don't reset this year. So yeah, get rid of best players, try to fill in the gaps, and yeah, avoid paying a ton of $. To be 100% fair JBJ and Price are the most obvious cuts beyond trading their best player Mookie. They're opting to cut out two of their supporting players (yeah, you could make the argument that Price is their best starter, but I wouldn't, although he's probably the most likely to pitch well).
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2019 22:43:06 GMT -5
You're quoting me, but it's not my logic. This is John Henry's logic. I could access Speier's article but I get the gist of it is that the Sox will lose a ton of $ if they don't reset this year. So yeah, get rid of best players, try to fill in the gaps, and yeah, avoid paying a ton of $. To be 100% fair JBJ and Price are the most obvious cuts beyond trading their best player Mookie. They're opting to cut out two of their supporting players (yeah, you could make the argument that Price is their best starter, but I wouldn't, although he's probably the most likely to pitch well). I'll have a hard time watching this season if they do what you already expect them to do. I'll make my decision on weather to watch them or not before the season even starts. Basically, if they don't try to win this season, I'm not watching. Because that's just a really stupid decision.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2019 22:46:50 GMT -5
You're quoting me, but it's not my logic. This is John Henry's logic. I could access Speier's article but I get the gist of it is that the Sox will lose a ton of $ if they don't reset this year. So yeah, get rid of best players, try to fill in the gaps, and yeah, avoid paying a ton of $. To be 100% fair JBJ and Price are the most obvious cuts beyond trading their best player Mookie. They're opting to cut out two of their supporting players (yeah, you could make the argument that Price is their best starter, but I wouldn't, although he's probably the most likely to pitch well). I'll have a hard time watching this season if they do what you already expect them to do. I'll make my decision on weather to watch them or not before the season even starts. Basically, if they don't try to win this season, I'm not watching. Because that's just a really stupid decision. MiLB.TV is pretty reasonably priced.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 10, 2019 22:51:01 GMT -5
So, roll into 2020 with the same guys as last year, but minus Price, Chavis, and Bradley (but plus a CFer who is presumably cheaper than Bradley)? Gonna quote myself here: You're quoting me, but it's not my logic. This is John Henry's logic. I could access Speier's article but I get the gist of it is that the Sox will lose a ton of $ if they don't reset this year. So yeah, get rid of best players, try to fill in the gaps, and yeah, avoid paying a ton of $. To be 100% fair JBJ and Price are the most obvious cuts beyond trading their best player Mookie. They're opting to cut out two of their supporting players (yeah, you could make the argument that Price is their best starter, but I wouldn't, although he's probably the most likely to pitch well). Is there any evidence this is John Henry's logic or are you just imputing an awful strategy to him based on rumors? Maybe they're gonna do a full re-build, including a Betts trade. Maybe they're gonna eat some of Price's salary to re-invest in other additions. I wouldn't love either of those approaches, but they'd be defensible. Your proposal, on the other hand, makes no sense at all.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 10, 2019 23:03:25 GMT -5
You're quoting me, but it's not my logic. This is John Henry's logic. I could access Speier's article but I get the gist of it is that the Sox will lose a ton of $ if they don't reset this year. So yeah, get rid of best players, try to fill in the gaps, and yeah, avoid paying a ton of $. To be 100% fair JBJ and Price are the most obvious cuts beyond trading their best player Mookie. They're opting to cut out two of their supporting players (yeah, you could make the argument that Price is their best starter, but I wouldn't, although he's probably the most likely to pitch well). Is there any evidence this is John Henry's logic or are you just imputing an awful strategy to him based on rumors? Maybe they're gonna do a full re-build, including a Betts trade. Maybe they're gonna eat some of Price's salary to re-invest in other additions. I wouldn't love either of those approaches, but they'd be defensible. Your proposal, on the other hand, makes no sense at all. I said if they don't get far enough under the luxury tax limit to the point where they can reinvest quality then yeah, they'd have to consider trading Mookie - especially if Gammons is correct. You have to remember - their FO probably has a good feel for if Mookie really wants to stay beyond next year. If the Red Sox don't improve their team they're not going to be overly competitive with a Yankees team that probably signs Cole and even other teams in the league vying for the Wild Card. If they're near the limit, that means they can't trade for a contract in July. That's a disadvantage, too. Just so I'm clear - I'm not advocating they trade Mookie. I don't care about the Red Sox "need" to get under 208 million. It it were up to me they wouldn't trade anybody of consequence. They'd add another starter to replace Porcello and a reliable bullpen arm and that's it. But if that's what they were really going to do, they wouldn't have dumped Dombrowski. They're going to deal Price (who has multiple suitors from what I read - including St. Louis) and probably JBJ. I question if they can fill their numerous holes with minimum wage/low wage contracts left over from the market and still be legitimately competitive. I want to see what Bloom comes away with before I can make that judgment. Is Price and JBJ a total salary dump or do they get something useful for them? What does Bloom get on the scrap heap? Is this a competitive team? If so, take your chances and reassess in July. If not and it's clear to the Sox FO that Mookie wants out then you should trade him if you get more value for him now than July. And if you're dealing Mookie, then perhaps you look at dealing away JDM as well, if you get to that point. I'm not advocating giving up on the season because Price and JBJ would go. I want to see what quality replacements they can get as opposed to the proverbial throw crap against the wall approach and more importantly if Mookie is sending clear signals to the Red Sox that he doesn't want to come back the Sox would be negligent in not going all out to explore if they can get talent that can help them in 2021 and beyond if the best they can do is a hail mary for the Wild Card.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 10, 2019 23:18:21 GMT -5
When Cole picks a landing spot, Price's trade value goes up.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 10, 2019 23:36:00 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Dec 10, 2019 23:36:24 GMT -5
forum.soxprospects.com/thread/5289/get-cap-trade-proposalsforum.soxprospects.com/thread/5307/jo-adellBrought this up in the trade forum. Won't go over it for the sake of repeating. The only thing I will repeat is that the 10/5 no trade clause kicks in after next season. The time to trade Price is now, while you can/when he has some value left. Would rather take a bad contract + prospects in a deal for Price. There's a chance you can get value from a bad contract. There's no chance you can get value from dead money.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 11, 2019 0:03:53 GMT -5
You're quoting me, but it's not my logic. This is John Henry's logic. I could access Speier's article but I get the gist of it is that the Sox will lose a ton of $ if they don't reset this year. So yeah, get rid of best players, try to fill in the gaps, and yeah, avoid paying a ton of $. To be 100% fair JBJ and Price are the most obvious cuts beyond trading their best player Mookie. They're opting to cut out two of their supporting players (yeah, you could make the argument that Price is their best starter, but I wouldn't, although he's probably the most likely to pitch well). Is there any evidence this is John Henry's logic or are you just imputing an awful strategy to him based on rumors? Maybe they're gonna do a full re-build, including a Betts trade. Maybe they're gonna eat some of Price's salary to re-invest in other additions. I wouldn't love either of those approaches, but they'd be defensible. Your proposal, on the other hand, makes no sense at all. He's on record saying resetting is the goal for 2020, that isn't a rumor. You only do that by trading guys like Price, Bradley, etc and replacing them with guys not anywhere near as good.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Dec 11, 2019 0:07:30 GMT -5
Hope this Cole to Yankees means Angels go hard after price
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 11, 2019 1:09:23 GMT -5
Hope this Cole to Yankees means Angels go hard after price I think they will. Hopefully they have competition, like the Cards. It would increase the chances the Sox get a better deal. Too bad the Dodgers aren't interested as it appears they're going after Bumgarner.
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