SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 10, 2020 22:20:48 GMT -5
Why the fuck do we always take a middle infielder that will never play a meaningful game for the team. jfc Such an overreaction for a guy who's never seen this guy play criticizing professional baseball decision makers lmao
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2020 22:21:15 GMT -5
Let's see how it plays out. It's a bold move for a new GM and I like that as long as he's a very good player.
|
|
alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
|
Post by alnipper on Jun 10, 2020 22:24:38 GMT -5
Bleacher Report "First Round (No. 17 Overall): Nick Yorke, 2B, Archbishop Mitty High School (CA) In order to be a legitimate draft prospect as a high school second baseman, a player has to have significant offensive upside. Yorke offers that with a 55-grade hit tool that ranks among the best in this year's high school class and some present power in his 6'0", 200-pound frame. Shoulder surgery during his junior season robbed him of what was once solid arm strength, and he has slid down the defensive spectrum as a result. That puts a ton of pressure on his bat, and with that comes some obvious risk. Grade: D- The Red Sox don't pick again until No. 89 overall, and most expected them to take a risk on a high school player as a result. But this pick was completely off the board. Yorke checked in outside the top 90 prospects on Baseball America (96) and MLB.com (139). He'll have to sign well-below-slot, and they'll have to come away with a couple of steals on Day 2 for this to make a lick of sense." A D- is harsh! Accurate in my opinion, but harsh. He has 0 leverage if he expects slot. I am not feeling good about this draft. Sox still got 4 rounds to go or is it 3 for us?(sarcasm) I am curious about the $20,000 players! The below slot "parameters" should of been in place before the pick.
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 10, 2020 22:25:06 GMT -5
For starters, because it's against the our Forum Ground Rules regarding civil posting. Also, you just learned about this kid a few minutes ago. Ok, my bad. Im friggin stoked that the last red sox moves have been trading mookie and drafting a kid ranked in the 160s at 17. I mean, ESPN had him as high as 69 and there were quotes from evaluators and scouts that really like him but sure let's cherry pick one ranking to fit our narrative, shall we?
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 10, 2020 22:28:15 GMT -5
Bleacher Report "First Round (No. 17 Overall): Nick Yorke, 2B, Archbishop Mitty High School (CA) In order to be a legitimate draft prospect as a high school second baseman, a player has to have significant offensive upside. Yorke offers that with a 55-grade hit tool that ranks among the best in this year's high school class and some present power in his 6'0", 200-pound frame. Shoulder surgery during his junior season robbed him of what was once solid arm strength, and he has slid down the defensive spectrum as a result. That puts a ton of pressure on his bat, and with that comes some obvious risk. Grade: D- The Red Sox don't pick again until No. 89 overall, and most expected them to take a risk on a high school player as a result. But this pick was completely off the board. Yorke checked in outside the top 90 prospects on Baseball America (96) and MLB.com (139). He'll have to sign well-below-slot, and they'll have to come away with a couple of steals on Day 2 for this to make a lick of sense." A D- is harsh! Accurate in my opinion, but harsh. He has 0 leverage if he expects slot. I am not feeling good about this draft. Sox still got 4 rounds to go or is it 3 for us?(sarcasm) I am curious about the $20,000 players! The below slot "parameters" should of been in place before the pick. It's not really a fair grade because they're grading the pick in a vacuum when in reality it needs to be viewed in the context of how they use the money.
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 10, 2020 22:33:49 GMT -5
I actually don't hate it, under the expectation that they are able to sign at least two other high-upside high school guys in the later rounds. Some of the rankings aren't great, but he was in the top-100 in two outlets' rankings so it's not like he was a consensus fourth rounder or anything.
Also, I put way more stock into the things people who have watched him say about him like the scouts, evaluators, and coaches, and that was way more positive than just an arbitrary ranking.
One team had him as a second rounder, so under that lens it's still a reach but not as egregious. If the Vanderbilt head coach thinks he's the best hitter in high school baseball, I'm going to listen to him. He's the exact type of guy who lights up college baseball so maybe they're just getting ahead of the game lol.
Overall, I think people are vastly overreacting to an arbitrary number in a list of players. I like his profile, especially the fact that he's considered to have an advanced approach in addition to good natural hitting ability. If this was a guy they'd be signing for slot then sure, it's bad. But if it falls under the strategy we all expect them to take I think it's fine.
People can't talk about how the MLB draft is a crap shoot where the top ranked players rarely pan out and then get mad when a team deviates from the top ranked players.
|
|
|
Post by caseytins on Jun 10, 2020 22:35:18 GMT -5
Rather than blocking someone, why not have a civil dialogue? Oh wait, are you from the South? I am only trying to help you, Chris. Please talk to me when you get an education. You had that part right. Don't even get me started, Phil. You have been clearly proved to be false in most all of your previous posts. Man up for once in your life and think for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 10, 2020 22:38:21 GMT -5
Stop with the personal attacks and back-and-forths. Those will be deleted going forward. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 10, 2020 22:41:51 GMT -5
It feels like the Red Sox decided to trade away their 1st round pick to get the second round pick that they lost.
I know you draft for need - you're supposed to take the best player available. I just hope that Yorke is close enough to the tier of Bitsko/Mitchell/PCA/Soderstram and that the extra $ gets them top notch late talent to make up the potential difference of passing on a kid with huge starting pitching potential in a system that lacks it or top catching talent in a system lacking in that area as well - and I still think Mitchell would have been a solid get.
Maybe Bloom is proven right and the Sox get their next Pedroia (or Youkilis as a 2b) and are able to use the extra $ to make up for the lack of a 2nd pick - I hope that's the case. It's certainly risky what they're doing, because if this kid's hit tool isn't enough and/or the Sox don't make up the perceived talent deficit and some of those other kids with better pedigrees they passed up succeed....well, we'll be talking about this selection for awhile.
We might be saying it's the biggest fiasco since Ball or we might be hailing Bloom's genius in finding a hidden gem and building up the system with his shrewd use of the excess cash and making up for a 2nd round penalty that he had absolutely nothing to do with. I have a feeling it's going to be one or the other and not something in between. Time will tell.
|
|
alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
|
Post by alnipper on Jun 10, 2020 22:42:07 GMT -5
A D- is harsh! Accurate in my opinion, but harsh. He has 0 leverage if he expects slot. I am not feeling good about this draft. Sox still got 4 rounds to go or is it 3 for us?(sarcasm) I am curious about the $20,000 players! The below slot "parameters" should of been in place before the pick. It's not really a fair grade because they're grading the pick in a vacuum when in reality it needs to be viewed in the context of how they use the money. I do understand that. If he signs and signs below slot. Plus get who they have in mind rounds 3-5.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 10, 2020 22:45:32 GMT -5
I'm out here on the West coast and I'll be up for a while. I'll be glad to do the same and delete any of the attack posts. Cut it out.
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 10, 2020 22:51:06 GMT -5
Such an overreaction for a guy who's never seen this guy play criticizing professional baseball decision makers lmao Ok, maybe he'll break the trash trend that they've been going through. 1. New front office at the top so "trends" don't really matter. 2. What trend do you even think you're talking about? Middle infielders the Sox have taken in the top 10 rounds in the last few years: - Cameron Cannon - Matthew Lugo - Jarren Duran - Grant Williams - Brett Netzer - Tanner Nishioka - CJ Chatham - Santiago Espinal Williams and Nishioka were under slot signs, so throw them out (and honestly Nishioka has had a decent development relative to expectations). Espinal was a slightly less underslot guy but ended up being the chip that got us Steve Pearce, I consider that a win. Brett Netzer definitely underwhelmed relative to his draft position but I'd still say he has a non-zero chance of at least getting a cup of coffee. Duran is obviously a stud, outfielder now obviously but drafted as a second baseman. CJ Chatham was not a sexy pick but he'll play in the league at some point. And then the other two guys, Cannon and Lugo, have been in the system for a year. Yeah they didn't get off to the best start but if they're the basis for your disappointment then you're standing on extremely shaky ground. They still have a lot of time left and while I'm not crazy about either of them to write them off already makes literally no sense. Also, that doesn't nearly count as a "trend". So if you want to be underwhelmed by the pick, you go for it, but there's no logic behind what you're saying.
|
|
|
Post by tyler3 on Jun 11, 2020 0:41:31 GMT -5
What concerns me is that the orioles plan was I think Heston at 2 for at underslot and then Bitsko overslot in Comp. Rays screwed that up. Now the orioles have a ton of extra money and two picks before 89. Feel like they could get Kelley and Witt easy before we have anything say about it or something like that.. the Phillies screwed us
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,124
|
Post by cdj on Jun 11, 2020 0:52:08 GMT -5
I honestly like the pick the more and more I hear about it
Started off with a WTF reaction but depending on what they do tomorrow it makes a lot of sense. It gives them a really good prospect tonight, and gives them a shot at 3 really good prospects tomorrow
If there is ever a draft to trust your scouts this is the one. You have no legitimate sample size to work with from a numbers basis...this is all gonna be about projection
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,986
|
Post by jimoh on Jun 11, 2020 5:23:17 GMT -5
Stop with the personal attacks and back-and-forths. Those will be deleted going forward. Thanks. Yeah, thank you, those are terrible. I would have thought that on a normal day they would have been smacked down earlier, although of courser there was more important stuff to think about last night.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,986
|
Post by jimoh on Jun 11, 2020 6:13:57 GMT -5
Trying to think of ways in which this is a good pick, like:
This is the kind of guy who might have ranked better with a senior season. Media rankings are based on much less scouting than a team's rankings. This is a typical Red Sox pick of a guy who looked better before the shoulder injury that made him DH his junior year. This is like Belichick trading away a first round pick for multiple picks later
But The shoulder injury seems not to have really gone away. First HS 2b in first round since 2009. No speed (7.0 in the 60?), not much present power (Youkilis was bigger and hit tons of HRs in HS and college). Like a taller Pedroia with less range, speed and power. The math of the idea of a strategic pick escapes me. I don't see how getting three "2nd round picks" could be better than a genuine #17 pick and a 3rd and a 4th, and I find it hard to imagine they will actually get three 2nd round picks in talent. I think they must think he's actually worth a #17 pick. Belichick winds up with more picks, in a sport that needs many more players.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jun 11, 2020 6:26:00 GMT -5
You have to wonder if Abel was the Sox preferred pick and then when he was off the board they ended up taking the person that they probably would have in the 2nd round if they still had the pick. I've never seen these kids play so it could obviously work out. It just seems that the Sox might regret passing on Crow-Armstrong.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,791
|
Post by mobaz on Jun 11, 2020 6:35:24 GMT -5
Trying to think of ways in which this is a good pick, like: This is the kind of guy who might have ranked better with a senior season. Media rankings are based on much less scouting than a team's rankings. This is a typical Red Sox pick of a guy who looked better before the shoulder injury that made him DH his junior year. This is like Belichick trading away a first round pick for multiple picks later But The shoulder injury seems not to have really gone away. First HS 2b in first round since 2009. No speed (7.0 in the 60?), not much present power (Youkilis was bigger and hit tons of HRs in HS and college). Like a taller Pedroia with less range, speed and power. The math of the idea of a strategic pick escapes me. I don't see how getting three "2nd round picks" could be better than a genuine #17 pick and a 3rd and a 4th, and I find it hard to imagine they will actually get three 2nd round picks in talent. I think they must think he's actually worth a #17 pick. Belichick winds up with more picks, in a sport that needs many more players. Excellent breakdown. It's relatively rare for the Sox to have a pick as high as 17, and this seems like a missed opportunity. When the Sox are at 20 or 26, there's always a few guys that go just before them you hoped would fall but didn't. Be the team that takes that guy! There was still a ton of ceiling left on the board at that point, and I don't think quantity will make up for that. The probability that a genuine 17th overall pick is an impact major leaguer seems to be much higher than 4 2nd/3rd rounder types. I have no amateur baseball knowledge beyond what I see here or what people here point to to learn from, but I was pretty excited about getting one of Able, Sidd Finch Bitsko or PCA, and to see two of them pass by is frustrating.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,846
|
Post by nomar on Jun 11, 2020 7:47:20 GMT -5
Reminds me of last yr with Cannon when we all thought it was a reach and must be an underslot deal only to see they paid him full slot. I bet Yorke gets paid over 2 million and we are all scratching our heads again this yr Cannon signed for >$400K underslot, allowing them to nab Matthew Lugo with the last pick in the 2nd round despite Lugo being projected to go in the 1st round by several outlets. Hindsight is 20/20 but I doubt they’d do that again if they had a do over
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 11, 2020 8:03:45 GMT -5
Trying to think of ways in which this is a good pick, like: This is the kind of guy who might have ranked better with a senior season. Media rankings are based on much less scouting than a team's rankings. This is a typical Red Sox pick of a guy who looked better before the shoulder injury that made him DH his junior year. This is like Belichick trading away a first round pick for multiple picks later But The shoulder injury seems not to have really gone away. First HS 2b in first round since 2009. No speed (7.0 in the 60?), not much present power (Youkilis was bigger and hit tons of HRs in HS and college). Like a taller Pedroia with less range, speed and power. The math of the idea of a strategic pick escapes me. I don't see how getting three "2nd round picks" could be better than a genuine #17 pick and a 3rd and a 4th, and I find it hard to imagine they will actually get three 2nd round picks in talent. I think they must think he's actually worth a #17 pick.Belichick winds up with more picks, in a sport that needs many more players. Given what they have said publicly so far I think it’s safe to assume that they think they are getting a discount AND are getting someone worthy of the 17th pick. I’d like to see their board but he might have been their BPA.
|
|
|
Post by benfromma on Jun 11, 2020 8:06:29 GMT -5
Many on this board and the experts have stated excellent reasons for not liking this pick and in normal years I would have taken their word and been upset. But this isn't a normal year usually after a college or high school season many prospects ratings change greatly. Yorke could have had a fabulous senior year and showed no shoulder injury effects in the field and his rating could have soared. (or the opposite his rating could have been lower) So if today we may get a player in rds 3-5 we would not have gotten without the extra draft capital and Yorke down the road becomes a solid player we did well. Baseball draft is just about projectable talent and the key is if the talent develops. Many factors come into play such as injury, able to compete against other talented players (or are they just able dominate against less skilled players) and can they able handle the pressure.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,124
|
Post by cdj on Jun 11, 2020 8:35:39 GMT -5
1. New front office at the top so "trends" don't really matter. 2. What trend do you even think you're talking about? Middle infielders the Sox have taken in the top 10 rounds in the last few years: - Cameron Cannon - Matthew Lugo - Jarren Duran - Grant Williams - Brett Netzer - Tanner Nishioka - CJ Chatham - Santiago Espinal Williams and Nishioka were under slot signs, so throw them out (and honestly Nishioka has had a decent development relative to expectations). Espinal was a slightly less underslot guy but ended up being the chip that got us Steve Pearce, I consider that a win. Brett Netzer definitely underwhelmed relative to his draft position but I'd still say he has a non-zero chance of at least getting a cup of coffee. Duran is obviously a stud, outfielder now obviously but drafted as a second baseman. CJ Chatham was not a sexy pick but he'll play in the league at some point. And then the other two guys, Cannon and Lugo, have been in the system for a year. Yeah they didn't get off to the best start but if they're the basis for your disappointment then you're standing on extremely shaky ground. They still have a lot of time left and while I'm not crazy about either of them to write them off already makes literally no sense. Also, that doesn't nearly count as a "trend". So if you want to be underwhelmed by the pick, you go for it, but there's no logic behind what you're saying. Why are you stopping there? Go back to 2005 and look at middle infielders. TRASH One of those middle infielder selections from the last decade is a guy you’ve been crying about trading in this thread. #MookieIsTrash
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Jun 11, 2020 8:37:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by PedroKsBambino on Jun 11, 2020 8:45:07 GMT -5
The one thing I do like about Yorke is his swing reminds me of Ronald Acuna. Real nice swing from the right side.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Jun 11, 2020 9:14:01 GMT -5
Because of the lockdown, there's less information on players, which cases draft rankings to be less reliable. Two general points follow from that:
1) Punting on first rounders should be +ev unless a lot of teams are doing it. It's hard to imagine a discount rate high enough such that paying slot for the 18th best guy in a draft where you have a lot more information is worse than paying slot for the 17th best guy in this draft.
2) Going underslot early, and then overslot later is a better strategy in 2020 then it was in 2019. The 100th best guy is closer to the 17th best guy in a year where nobody knows anything, than in a normal year.
|
|
|