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Post by orcoaster on Mar 20, 2022 16:25:22 GMT -5
It could well be that Casas is penciled in as this year's midseason acquisition. If Dalbec is hitting, he becomes JBJ's platoon partner with Verdugo moving to the other corner.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 20, 2022 16:31:04 GMT -5
I'm a little confused about this now that I'm thinking about it. Is the reverse also true? If a player's contract is front loaded, will the AAV of a traded player be the actual dollar amount being paid at the end of the deal? The Red Sox could get creative with deals if so to acquire a lot of prospects from cap starved teams later on in the contract. I like where you're thinking. In theory, the luxury tax restricted teams could front-load contracts and trade them amongst themselves toward the end of those contracts. It would be complicated/difficult as these types of trades usually take place between the haves and have-nots, but it seems like there will be trades in the future where this will happen. I still think this greatly reduces the frequency of gaming the system, but good call on finding the new loophole. It's even better than that, because the AAV for luxury tax purposes doesn't change until the player is traded if I'm reading it correctly. Rich teams can game this easily. Spend more dollars up front with a lower AAV, then trade them with lower AAV for teams up against the cap and don't want to go over towards the end. But we don't know for certain if it works both ways.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 20, 2022 16:41:31 GMT -5
It could well be that Casas is penciled in as this year's midseason acquisition. If Dalbec is hitting, he becomes JBJ's platoon partner with Verdugo moving to the other corner. Scary defensive OF alignment. Maybe they try that if JBJ and Duran both don't hit. I do agree with the thought of Casas as the Schwarber acquisition midseason. Not fair to expect him to generate that kind of offense but with Casas I don't rule it out. I think he will be a terror in AAA and force his way up midseason. Just dont know how fast he adjusts to major league pitching.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Mar 20, 2022 16:41:43 GMT -5
I like where you're thinking. In theory, the luxury tax restricted teams could front-load contracts and trade them amongst themselves toward the end of those contracts. It would be complicated/difficult as these types of trades usually take place between the haves and have-nots, but it seems like there will be trades in the future where this will happen. I still think this greatly reduces the frequency of gaming the system, but good call on finding the new loophole. It's even better than that, because the AAV for luxury tax purposes doesn't change until the player is traded if I'm reading it correctly. Rich teams can game this easily. Spend more dollars up front with a lower AAV, then trade them with lower AAV for teams up against the cap and don't want to go over towards the end. But we don't know for certain if it works both ways. The former way to game the system works both ways so I don't see why this version would be any different, but there's likely no longer an incentive to game the system in the other direction so this system should reduce the chance of this happening. As these types of contracts (like Myers) were quite rare previously, I expect they will be even more rare now that half of the equation has been discarded. But theoretically: Teams A & B sign two players to identical contracts: 60mil contract (25mil, 20mil, 15mil) After year 2, Teams A & B trade the two players. Their luxury tax totals would drop from the 20mil AAV to 15mil and each team would have only had 55mil of the 60mil contnract count against the tax over the 3 years. Now that I type it out, I'm willing to bet there's a surcharge for the trade where the trading team takes-on the difference, if it's a positive number (in this case 5mil each), against their tax upon making the trade. Would be easy to add this and would have been dumb of MLB to leave this out.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 20, 2022 17:10:40 GMT -5
There is no reason not to get Myers unless we plan on getting an OFer at the deadline or SD won’t give us good prospects.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 20, 2022 17:16:05 GMT -5
There is no reason not to get Myers unless we plan on getting an OFer at the deadline or SD won’t give us good prospects. It's quite possible the Padres do need him this year. He's average, but who do they have who will necessarily will be better on RF? Guess they could DH Voit and play Soler on a corner with Profar on the other one? Besides for one year I don't think they'd get that highly rated a prospect. If the Sox really wanted a prospect that good I'm sure they'd get a high quality one for Hosmer, the real albatross contract.
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Post by julyanmorley on Mar 20, 2022 17:18:57 GMT -5
There is no reason not to get Myers unless we plan on getting an OFer at the deadline or SD won’t give us good prospects. Who knows if the deal is even real
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Mar 20, 2022 17:21:02 GMT -5
JBJ averaged 3.3 WAR / 650 PA his last three years in a Red Sox uni, at ages 28 to 30. (If you weight it by years like a Marcel projection, it's actually higher.)
He's always been a super-streaky guy. An interesting Q: what would happen if he went to a team that literally had less than zero understanding of how to deal with his slumps, both mechanically and psychologically? Well, we think we know, right? We know for a fact that he started ice cold (as is almost always the case) and, unlike every other year, never got it going. So the above is an obvious explanation.
We once traded for a guy who was coming off a -0.1 WAR year after averaging 3.4 WAR / 650 (3.3 actual) in his age 28 to 30 seasons. He put up a 4.2 / 650 (4.1 actual) in the 2 remaining years of his contract, capping it off with a WS MVP.
For some reason I think that replacing JBJ with a guy less good is a bad idea.
Eric, out of curiosity, who is the guy you mean? I agree… don’t get me wrong… I just wonder who it is you mean *not* to get?
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Post by orcoaster on Mar 20, 2022 17:22:23 GMT -5
Mike Lowell, I'd guess.
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 20, 2022 18:12:07 GMT -5
It could well be that Casas is penciled in as this year's midseason acquisition. If Dalbec is hitting, he becomes JBJ's platoon partner with Verdugo moving to the other corner. Scary defensive OF alignment. Maybe they try that if JBJ and Duran both don't hit. I do agree with the thought of Casas as the Schwarber acquisition midseason. Not fair to expect him to generate that kind of offense but with Casas I don't rule it out. I think he will be a terror in AAA and force his way up midseason. Just dont know how fast he adjusts to major league pitching. I'm starting to wonder myself if the sox are even going to wait until July to call up Casas. The reports of dalbec getting reps at 2nd which obviously is moot with the story signing but also OF. Dalbec is the only 1st baseman they have right now with maybe Travis shaw as the only other option right now? It makes me think they're thinking Casas is going to push the issue sooner than later.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 20, 2022 18:36:49 GMT -5
It's even better than that, because the AAV for luxury tax purposes doesn't change until the player is traded if I'm reading it correctly. Rich teams can game this easily. Spend more dollars up front with a lower AAV, then trade them with lower AAV for teams up against the cap and don't want to go over towards the end. But we don't know for certain if it works both ways. The former way to game the system works both ways so I don't see why this version would be any different, but there's likely no longer an incentive to game the system in the other direction so this system should reduce the chance of this happening. As these types of contracts (like Myers) were quite rare previously, I expect they will be even more rare now that half of the equation has been discarded. But theoretically: Teams A & B sign two players to identical contracts: 60mil contract (25mil, 20mil, 15mil) After year 2, Teams A & B trade the two players. Their luxury tax totals would drop from the 20mil AAV to 15mil and each team would have only had 55mil of the 60mil contnract count against the tax over the 3 years. Now that I type it out, I'm willing to bet there's a surcharge for the trade where the trading team takes-on the difference, if it's a positive number (in this case 5mil each), against their tax upon making the trade. Would be easy to add this and would have been dumb of MLB to leave this out. I wonder if it's going to be like how it works with contracts. If you sign a guy to a 1 year, $5m deal with a 1 year, $3m player option, it's $4m AAV. But if the player leaves, he counts $1m at the following year to account for the difference in what you paid versus what counted. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar language with this new trade rule.
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Post by thelpc on Mar 20, 2022 18:43:40 GMT -5
I feel like a reunion with Kevin Pillar could make sense, right handed bat that can play all three outfield positions
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Post by rico6 on Mar 20, 2022 19:07:41 GMT -5
I feel like a reunion with Kevin Pillar could make sense, right handed bat that can play all three outfield positions Pillar or Pham are still on the board for right handed hitting free agent outfielders.
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Post by patford on Mar 20, 2022 19:43:43 GMT -5
With Verdugo, Herandez and JBJ in the outfield there might be weeks where a fly ball never touches the ground.
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sportshubby
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Post by sportshubby on Mar 20, 2022 19:48:11 GMT -5
I generally stay away from anything resembling trade proposals. But any chances we can clear our 40 man crunch and add another outfielder at the same time? Send TB Rosario and Potts for kiermaier and some non 40 man prospects to eat KK's salary? Pulled off a trade with them this time last year. Maybe one or more of our excess lefty relievers?
Back to the topic...If we are going to add another OF, I would really like to see us bring in another prospect to make up for the draft pick and slot $ lost. And I don't see the Padres moving Myers.
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Post by Jimmy on Mar 20, 2022 20:18:42 GMT -5
Just blow through the Luxury Tax with Myers & Kimbrel
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Post by basbal24 on Mar 20, 2022 20:31:13 GMT -5
I like bringing Kevin Pillar back !
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 20, 2022 20:43:07 GMT -5
I like bringing Kevin Pillar back ! Hate to say it but I think that might make a lot of sense. I think Pham is better but he can't play RF like Pillar could. Didn't even know he was available.
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Post by lonborgski on Mar 21, 2022 3:54:27 GMT -5
I like bringing Kevin Pillar back ! Hate to say it but I think that might make a lot of sense. I think Pham is better but he can't play RF like Pillar could. Didn't even know he was available. Is Pillar a better value than possibly trading for someone like Chad Pinder with the A’s?
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Post by kingofthetrill on Mar 21, 2022 5:35:45 GMT -5
Not going to lie, I kept reading it as "Kevin Millar" instead of Pillar.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Mar 21, 2022 6:53:05 GMT -5
I don’t understand the calls to trade for Myers. The Red Sox already traded for one overpaid OF and middling prospects this offseason. They are only going as far as their starting pitching which is not great.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 21, 2022 7:30:26 GMT -5
Hate to say it but I think that might make a lot of sense. I think Pham is better but he can't play RF like Pillar could. Didn't even know he was available. Is Pillar a better value than possibly trading for someone like Chad Pinder with the A’s? Depends what you have to give up for Pinder I suppose. The truth are that none of these names are particularly exciting. Somebody could tell me Bobby Kielty is available again and I'd say sign me up. It's weird that at this point they don't have a RH hitting corner OF (one that could play a legit RF at Fenway).
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 21, 2022 7:43:07 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in Myers playing RF in Fenway. You need a CF out there, not a mediocre corner OF.
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Post by brendan98 on Mar 21, 2022 8:00:36 GMT -5
I could see Pillar.
I think Bloom is going to want to see what he has for the first couple of months, and probably feels comfortable waiting to make a trade for an upgrade in the corner outfield before the deadline if needed.
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Post by greenmonster on Mar 22, 2022 10:37:45 GMT -5
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