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Red Sox To Designate Jackie Bradley Jr. For Assignment
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Post by bosoxnation on Aug 4, 2022 8:56:38 GMT -5
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 4, 2022 8:59:45 GMT -5
Hardly knew ye. I guess they couldn't find any takers for him. Trading him would've been one way to try to get under the CBT but that presumes the acquiring team would've taken on the salary. Maybe with a prospect attached? Anyway, didn't happen.
FWIW, Heyman tweeted on Monday that the Phillies were a possible trade partner for JBJ.
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 4, 2022 9:00:19 GMT -5
Wonder if anyone signs him or he ends up in Worcester.
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Post by seamus on Aug 4, 2022 9:03:33 GMT -5
Even more than the robbery against the Orioles or the ALCS against the Astros, I will always remember the time that Matt Carpenter started at third base and Jackie still nabbed him at the plate on a clean single. Jackie Bradley Jr. throws out Matt CarpenterProbably the right move for the team to DFA him at this point, but it's a bummer.
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Post by costpet on Aug 4, 2022 9:20:26 GMT -5
One of the best outfielders we ever had. It too bad he never learned to hit.
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 4, 2022 9:27:38 GMT -5
So, where are we on the Cedanne tweet from two days ago? Any chance this is the start of the Sox bringing in the rookies like him and Casas on 8/19?
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 4, 2022 9:29:31 GMT -5
Even more than the robbery against the Orioles or the ALCS against the Astros, I will always remember the time that Matt Carpenter started at third base and Jackie still nabbed him at the plate on a clean single. Jackie Bradley Jr. throws out Matt CarpenterProbably the right move for the team to DFA him at this point, but it's a bummer. I’ll never forget the ALCS . Can you imagine he saved us in the ALCS with his bat! To many highlight catches. Maybe he’ll help a playoff team. I have no issue with this. Get use to it the is the prelude of a crazy off-season.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 4, 2022 9:32:05 GMT -5
So, where are we on the Cedanne tweet from two days ago? Any chance this is the start of the Sox bringing in the rookies like him and Casas on 8/19? I don’t see the point of rushing either up. Rafaela has an iffy BB:K in AA, and Casas has a pedestrian slash line in AAA (yes, I know the underlying batted ball data is good). Kiké/Refsnyder may be back soon
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 4, 2022 9:50:06 GMT -5
I know we still need to wait and see what value if any Binelas and Hamilton before really grading this trade in the long term but in terms of roster construction for this years team this has to be graded an F. Just a giant swing and miss, I never wanted JBJ back in the first place. His bat was cooked a couple of years ago, it seemed pretty obvious to me. I don't know what Bloom and Co. were looking at to think he could be a viable option to log as many ABs as he did this season for them and be a valuable piece to the team.
I don't care about trading Renfroe, that is what it is. I don't care for the 3 outcome player that he is. However to not go out and get a viable option in RF who could produce 1-2 WAR has for sure cost this team. 1 or 2 extra Ws and we're talking a team one game out of the last wildcard not 3. It's going to be a tight race and we may easily be looking back at the end of the season and looking at the decision to bring JBJ as a primary OF option as why they missed the wildcard.
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Post by benzinger on Aug 4, 2022 10:07:43 GMT -5
Who would have thought that acquiring the worst player in MLB in 2021 wouldn’t work out?
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 4, 2022 10:12:36 GMT -5
Matz is right that the lack of a viable replacement for Renfroe was the issue. The second issue was "buying" prospects of that B and C+ level for $17 million is not the best use of funds, unless you are going on the assumption that budget is not really an issue. But the cost seems exorbitant if, as it now appears, budget is still a relevant factor. I have to hope Binelas works out, but wonder if a similar prospect level could have been bought for less than $17 million.
As Chris mentions, it is unlikely anyone will take on the buyout/remaining salary. But can the Sox pick up most of it and get some savings to encourage someone else to pick up a portion and eliminate the sunk cost? (Maybe enough to bring them closer to not hitting the CBA penalty)
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 4, 2022 10:13:22 GMT -5
I know we still need to wait and see what value if any Binelas and Hamilton before really grading this trade in the long term but in terms of roster construction for this years team this has to be graded an F. Just a giant swing and miss, I never wanted JBJ back in the first place. His bat was cooked a couple of years ago, it seemed pretty obvious to me. I don't know what Bloom and Co. were looking at to think he could be a viable option to log as many ABs as he did this season for them and be a valuable piece to the team. I don't care about trading Renfroe, that is what it is. I don't care for the 3 outcome player that he is. However to not go out and get a viable option in RF who could produce 1-2 WAR has for sure cost this team. 1 or 2 extra Ws and we're talking a team one game out of the last wildcard not 3. It's going to be a tight race and we may easily be looking back at the end of the season and looking at the decision to bring JBJ as a primary OF option as why they missed the wildcard. I agree that it was a risky move, considering that there weren't many viable RF replacements on the market (clearly the FO were not willing to go far for Suzuki or he just fell in love with Chicago, which is a nice town -- he also grades out as one of the worst RF in baseball by fDef).
However, I disagree that Renfroe is a 3-outcome player. He has more homers than walks (and of course, more Ks than hits). He's barely 2 outcomes. Dude is rocking a .299 OBP, which is two points higher than his career clip.
Yes, he has a hose (if he can find his way to the ball) and yes, the team might be a little closer to the 3rd WC with him, but I still have no regrets about taking that risk.
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Post by yaz8 on Aug 4, 2022 10:16:54 GMT -5
Even more than the robbery against the Orioles or the ALCS against the Astros, I will always remember the time that Matt Carpenter started at third base and Jackie still nabbed him at the plate on a clean single. Jackie Bradley Jr. throws out Matt CarpenterProbably the right move for the team to DFA him at this point, but it's a bummer. I’ll never forget the ALCS . Can you imagine he saved us in the ALCS with his bat! To many highlight catches. Maybe he’ll help a playoff team. I have no issue with this. Get use to it the is the prelude of a crazy off-season. When he was on a hot streak he was an amazing hitter.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 4, 2022 10:31:00 GMT -5
End of an era. One of my favorite Sox players. Sad, but it had to happen.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 4, 2022 10:31:17 GMT -5
I wanted them to trade Renfroe, but the part where we got Jackie Bradley Jr back and then gave him the opening day job and then didn't even have a RH platoon OF for him never made sense to me.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 4, 2022 10:32:13 GMT -5
Greatest defensive Red Sox OFer I've ever seen. Thanks for the memories JBJ.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 4, 2022 10:37:41 GMT -5
Matz is right that the lack of a viable replacement for Renfroe was the issue. The second issue was "buying" prospects of that B and C+ level for $17 million is not the best use of funds, unless you are going on the assumption that budget is not really an issue. But the cost seems exorbitant if, as it now appears, budget is still a relevant factor. I have to hope Binelas works out, but wonder if a similar prospect level could have been bought for less than $17 million. Well, they obviously thought Jackie was worth a lot more than $0. I think they were also pretty excited about that option that would only count $4 million against next year's cap if Jackie has a bounce back year.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 4, 2022 10:51:49 GMT -5
This was someone who Bloom felt he was buying low on to get prospects. He's cooked. But certainly will remember 2018 when Jackie was a huge cog to this team. Good luck in your next stop. I'll assume its Philly.
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Post by notstarboard on Aug 4, 2022 10:51:52 GMT -5
I know we still need to wait and see what value if any Binelas and Hamilton before really grading this trade in the long term but in terms of roster construction for this years team this has to be graded an F. Just a giant swing and miss, I never wanted JBJ back in the first place. His bat was cooked a couple of years ago, it seemed pretty obvious to me. I don't know what Bloom and Co. were looking at to think he could be a viable option to log as many ABs as he did this season for them and be a valuable piece to the team. I don't care about trading Renfroe, that is what it is. I don't care for the 3 outcome player that he is. However to not go out and get a viable option in RF who could produce 1-2 WAR has for sure cost this team. 1 or 2 extra Ws and we're talking a team one game out of the last wildcard not 3. It's going to be a tight race and we may easily be looking back at the end of the season and looking at the decision to bring JBJ as a primary OF option as why they missed the wildcard. His worst wRC+ from 2015-2020 was 89. Did you think his bat was cooked a couple of years ago in the "demanding Boston fan" sense or in the "his next two seasons will have wRC+ values of 35 and 58" sense? I do agree that getting another starting caliber outfielder would have made a lot of sense, although we should acknowledge we're seeing just about the worst possible outcome here
I'm sure the logic was 1) JBJ is a bounce back candidate with the bat, and his defense should provide reasonable value even if he doesn't hit much, 2) If JBJ sucks, keeping him as a fourth OF and giving Duran some run - which would probably need to happen at some point if he wasn't traded - is fine until reinforcements could be added at the deadline, and 3) his option for 2023 could be a nice potential value. His least valuable season from 2015-2020, in terms of a $/WAR conversion, was $13.2 million. If his glove and bat could just get to normal wrong-side-of-30 decline levels, a $4 million luxury tax hit could be very useful in 2023, especially given the relative rarity of playable defensive CFs in the majors. Best case, he's the same old JBJ, and he's good enough to be Kiké insurance in CF for 2023. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Sox were hoping to bring in another solid OF a la Seiya Suzuki before the Cubs made their hefty offer, so even having to apply this logic may have been a bit of a backup plan.
On the other hand, Renfroe was one season removed from being DFA'd by the Rays and was a poor defender on a poor defensive team for the Sox in 2021. He put up 2.1 fWAR last year (144 games), compared to 4.7 fWAR for his entire five-year career to that point (432 games). In terms of fWAR per game, then he was about 34% more valuable in 2021 than he was for his career. He was also about to turn 30, and his projected arbitration pay increase looked like it was going to make him a mediocre value in 2022 and even worse in 2023 and beyond. In a sentence, he looked like a sub-optimal defensive fit for the Sox (given the size and importance of RF in Fenway) coming off of a career year. He looked like a classic sell high candidate.
And, of course, there are the prospects. Bloom was clearly interested enough in Binelas and/or Hamilton to roll the dice on this one. Even with regressions to the mean on both sides I doubt Bloom was expecting JBJ and Renfroe to have comparable value in 2022.
Then of course what actually happened was: - Renfroe basically picked up where he left off
- JBJ bounced back a bit with the bat, but was still a shadow of his 2015-2020 self. He wasn't even valuable enough to be a bench OF down the stretch, even if that meant passing on what was effectively a $4 million option for 2023.
- Kiké Hernandez picked up a long-term injury which forced JBJ to play much more often than he otherwise would have. A Duran/Hernandez/Verdugo outfield (left to right) would not have been nearly as catastrophic as the actual starting outfield (Verdugo/Duran/[JBJ or wild card])
- Contingency plans in Arroyo (injured and bad defense) and Cordero (mega slump and bad defense) didn't do much to fill the OF hole.
- The Sox didn't sign another starting caliber OF until Pham at the deadline
So, in terms of impact to the major league team, this was about the worst possible outcome. The 2022 fWAR difference between JBJ and Renfroe is at 1.7 so far.
My takeaways: - Taken in a vacuum I liked the deal and even with hindsight I think it was a fair gamble. Not signing another outfielder past JBJ didn't even terrify me at the start of the year. Given the injury plague and that we didn't get under the luxury tax, though, it ended up backfiring in a huge way. The impact of this deal on the 2022 team has clearly been negative.
- I've made this point many times on here, but I don't think what happens to Binelas and Hamilton should factor into the evaluation of the deal. If the Sox miss the playoffs by one game this will be an easy scapegoat, but I also don't think it's reasonable to blame this trade in that case either. In the offseason there is no way of knowing whether one additional marginal win will matter more this year or next year. For offseason deals in particular, we should be focusing on overall value in versus overall value out. This is hard to do for mere mortals like most (all?) of us since we don't have the Sox' internal evaluations of prospects, but that's the right approach. I think it's best to trust the FO's evaluation of talent for now, pending a comprehensive analysis of prospect outcomes from a large sample of players.
- I love JBJ and I'm happy I got to see him play for the Sox again this year. Is that worth 1.7 fWAR? No. But I'm happy about it.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 4, 2022 11:10:44 GMT -5
I know we still need to wait and see what value if any Binelas and Hamilton before really grading this trade in the long term but in terms of roster construction for this years team this has to be graded an F. Just a giant swing and miss, I never wanted JBJ back in the first place. His bat was cooked a couple of years ago, it seemed pretty obvious to me. I don't know what Bloom and Co. were looking at to think he could be a viable option to log as many ABs as he did this season for them and be a valuable piece to the team. I don't care about trading Renfroe, that is what it is. I don't care for the 3 outcome player that he is. However to not go out and get a viable option in RF who could produce 1-2 WAR has for sure cost this team. 1 or 2 extra Ws and we're talking a team one game out of the last wildcard not 3. It's going to be a tight race and we may easily be looking back at the end of the season and looking at the decision to bring JBJ as a primary OF option as why they missed the wildcard. A couple of years ago he was arguably the best hitter on that 2020 team. Last year was the cliff drop which he hasn’t recovered from He’s always been a class act. I wished he like hit he did at Fenway this year on the road. Hopefully he ends up as a defensive replacement somewhere good and can make a playoff run
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Aug 4, 2022 11:13:58 GMT -5
I’ve had a JBJ Superman flying through the air catch as the background on my desktop off and on the last few years. The fun thing is you can’t be sure what catch it is!
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 4, 2022 11:29:02 GMT -5
The GS off the woman beater in the ALCS was the moment I have an intense love for
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Post by benzinger on Aug 4, 2022 11:30:09 GMT -5
I wanted them to trade Renfroe, but the part where we got Jackie Bradley Jr back and then gave him the opening day job and then didn't even have a RH platoon OF for him never made sense to me. You weren’t the only one! And not getting MIL to eat any of the salary was a major win for them. That deal SHOULD have looked more like the Hosmer deal where the Sox got JBJ for $1-2m(or something along those lines). Then they would have had some money to acquire another OF, as well.
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Post by foreverred9 on Aug 4, 2022 11:40:42 GMT -5
My immediate reaction is that I think this is a bit harsh. Ideally I wish he could have stayed on as our defensive 4th outfielder. But even right now, I think he's more valuable to the team as the current starting CF than Duran. Worse OPS, worse wOBA, but (1) his defense should have been able to offset that and (2) Duran in the lineup isn't crushing it to begin with.
It feels like they could have gone a different way with the 40-man (DFA Sanchez?) but this also might mean that they feel really good about Jaylin Davis too as that 4th outfielder.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 4, 2022 11:41:14 GMT -5
Wonder if anyone signs him or he ends up in Worcester. The Phillies will sign him if no one else does just for a defensive replacement (prorated league minimum).
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